[BOOK SPOILERS] Do you think the HBO adaption will make certain characters more sympathetic?

[ErinO]

So I've been watching a ton of the behind the scenes and profile videos of a number of Characters. It's been a year since I read the books, but I remember a great deal of things pretty well, and one in particular was that I absolutely hated Cersei. And not once has the books ever given me a moment to shed an ounce of sympathy. Maybe a nano second when she talked very openly with Ned about her affair with Jamie before his sentencing...but not since. Yet with Characters like Jamie I've had total turn arounds on how I feel about them.

Part of what makes Cersei so awful is the narrative of her thoughts. Her reasoning and cold disregard for everyone. Since we have no narrator, I'm curious if this will allow her actions to stand on their own and be reasoned differently to the viewer. Perhaps they will be even easier to pass off as actions of a defensive mother, or a woman who's suffered a great deal of pain - rather than the actions of a total witch. I'm wondering if in production they will try to soften or harden our views of characters a bit differently from the books. Not rewriting them, but subtly giving them a new tone or dimension.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I think this is a fascinating subject and I'm really looking forward to seeing if that's case for some of the characters. Since I really like the characters of Catelyn and Sansa, I'm hoping they might come across more sympathetically to viewers as well. Particularly in Sansa's case, where there's no denying that in the beginning she was a spoiled brat. If she's played well in later hypothetical seasons, the abuse she suffers at the hands of the Lannisters (and later Littlefinger) might not be as easy for some to dismiss in the "she deserves it" reasoning.

[ErinO]

I think this is a fascinating subject and I'm really looking forward to seeing if that's case for some of the characters. Since I really like the characters of Catelyn and Sansa, I'm hoping they might come across more sympathetically to viewers as well. Particularly in Sansa's case, where there's no denying that in the beginning she was a spoiled brat. If she's played well in later hypothetical seasons, the abuse she suffers at the hands of the Lannisters (and later Littlefinger) might not be as easy for some to dismiss in the "she deserves it" reasoning.

I've thought this as well! Everyone hates on Sansa so much, but really I feel like she's become a much more dynamic character by the fourth book. It's really interesting how the show will turn the story away from being all internal, and much more emphasized on the visual. We can't listen to their thoughts, but we can read their faces. But putting a face on a person can either make them more relatable or more despicable.

I think that certain characters will simply solidify in their favoring. I'm looking forward to watching Ayra's progression more than anyone, I think. Also Daenerys has been a washy character for me in the way I feel about her, but I think the show is going to make me really love her.

[ryan stark]

Viserys- Not sure if he will be more sympathetic, but I am fairly sure he will be a hell of a lot more interesting. In no small part due to the fantastic acting of Harry Lloyd so far in clips.

Robb- A seemingly bigger role in the first season and no POV advantage for surrounding Starks.

Allister- No way to be certain but from the piece of dialogue we have of him it seems the show might make him less of a complete prick and more of the "gruff teacher" type.

Ser Rodrick & Jory- I just see them having more stuff to do in order to cut down of the amount of names for viewers to remember.

[ryan stark]

Oh and according to GRRM, Osha is more lively and interesting in the show as well. Younger too.

[SkynJay]

I think they would have to be more sympathetic. To bring in non fans and make them fan they have to give them something to come back. Rooting for a sympathetic character is an easy way to bring fans in.

[SerLady]

Viserys- Not sure if he will be more sympathetic, but I am fairly sure he will be a hell of a lot more interesting. In no small part due to the fantastic acting of Harry Lloyd so far in clips.

I don't think Visery's is going to come off more sympathetic. For one thing, we never got a POV from him, and everything comes from Dany's view. But during the trailers when Dany says "I want to go home," his response seemed less angry than it did in the book. So who knows? :)

I can't wait to see Harry Lloyd's acting though :D

[Phostopheles]

I think if events go as planned, the only POV characters that will be significantly more/less sympathetic are Jaime and Catelyn. At least for season one. Jaime will be simply by merit of more screen time, which means we'll probably see enough good sides of him to ignore the fact that he nearly kills Bran first episode. Catelyn won't have the benefit of internal monologuing, which tends to justify a lot of her outwardly evil/shortsighted actions, and I think that without the constant reminder of Bran nearly dying we'll forget sometimes that it's all in the name of motherly vengeance.

For non-POV characters, I'm predicting Petyr's seediness will dominate his helpful side, Robert's drunkenness will minimize the humanity found in his friendship with Ned, and Renly/Loras will be much gayer (which could go either way).

[nevermore]

jaime will almost certainly be portrayed as a villain first series more so than LF or Varys, probably the main villain along with Cersei (we haven't seen Tywin in book 1 properly i don't think)

[elfish_warrior]

Catelyn won't have the benefit of internal monologuing, which tends to justify a lot of her outwardly evil/shortsighted actions, and I think that without the constant reminder of Bran nearly dying we'll forget sometimes that it's all in the name of motherly vengeance.

I've never felt anything but sympathy for Cat and don't understand where the 'hate' for her seems to come from. She was always a good character imo and the events of the red wedding left my stunned. I'm only a few chapters into FFC and I know she's not dead but should I expect my perceptions of her to change through the course of the novel?

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I've never felt anything but sympathy for Cat and don't understand where the 'hate' for her seems to come from. She was always a good character imo and the events of the red wedding left my stunned. I'm only a few chapters into FFC and I know she's not dead but should I expect my perceptions of her to change through the course of the novel?

If you are mean to Jon Snow once, you are clearly evil through and through, and all your actions going forward are suspect.

:rolleyes:

In any case, it looks like they are trying to make Cat more sympathetic to a broader group than she was. They seem to be making her more... soft, I guess. But we'll see.

It also seems that they are revealing a lot more of Jaime's motivations than the first novel did, making him more sympathetic. This will make it a lot less shocking when we get to like him later on. They are also emphasizing the "intelligent, arrogant schemer" aspect of Cersei more than the "cray-cray stupid bitch" aspect. Which I think is all to the good, and will increase her popularity (though people will probably still hate her for the things she DOES).

[elfish_warrior]

Ah True I forgot her dislike of Jon, but surely what happens to the rest of her family negates any 'jon hate' she may have lol.

'

I think the reason we like Jaime though is the fact that he started out 'evil' then through circumstances he changes to somewhat of a good guy. Without this change of character, and with his 'sympathetic' tendencies visible from the outset is he going to be the Jaime we know from the books?

[Ecthelion]

I think this will be an important dynamic of the series to get right, since it will effect the majority of viewers who never read the books.

One of the reasons reader's perceptions of Jamie make such a dynamic shift is because all of our insight on him comes first from Stark POVs (with a small dose of Tyrion thrown in) - and then suddenly we get inside his head.

Martin's usage of the POV technique allows for such dramatic shifts in the books to seem natural. In GoT, our understanding of Jaime is predicated on the thoughts of Ned (who is inherently distrustful of the Lannisters), Bran (the "things I do for love"), and so on. The only humanity we ever hear about him is from Tyrion (who mentions that his brother seems to be the only family he has who sticks up for him). When we get inside Jaime's head we are suddenly exposed to his thoughts, conscience (such as it is), and his side of events. It's a surprise that he suddenly becomes sympathetic, but we can see a clear catalyst for it - before, we only had others perceptions of him, now we know better.

That simply won't play on a TV show. If they spend the better part of two seasons making him into the Kingslayer and another of the "evil Lannisters" then when he starts to be portrayed as more of a "good" character it will come out of nowhere. If they don't pull it off right, it will come off as cheesy, confusing, or silly at best.

I fully expect that some of the character traits necessary to understanding the development of certain people in later books to be heightened - or at least foreshadowed - earlier in the TV show than they would have been in the books. A small scene showing Jaime expressing his concern for Tyrion, or clearly showing that his own thoughts do differ from his reputation will be almost necessary to prepare viewers for the growth of his character in future seasons.

[elfish_warrior]

But he did push Bran to hide his and Cersei's secret! Surely that's evil?

[Ecthelion]

But he did push Bran to hide his and Cersei's secret! Surely that's evil?

It's not a question of evil or not. Black and white. Like the real world, many of the characters are somewhere in between. When we first met Jaime - he was about as close to "black" as possible. We knew he broke his vows and murdered the previous king. He is having an incestuous adulterous relationship with his twin sister. And he will go to great lengths, including and especially murdering an innocent child in cold blood, to protect that secret relationship. He later confronts Ned, kills Jory, and is responsible for leading part of the Lannister host against Robb.

It isn't until we get into his head to see that at heart he isn't as cold blooded and evil as he is perceived by other characters. We also realize that a lot of his actions come from a place where his "murder" of Aerys is somewhat scorned by the public at large, who were not privy to the realities behind it.

The guy saved King's Landing from destruction at the hands of an insane King, and when all was said and done nobody knew (or cared) and he gained only a reputation as an oathbreaking opportunist. Rather than set them straight, he just accepts it and embraces the public's view of him.

None of this excuses his attempted murder of Bran - but it does make the reader more understanding of where he is coming from, and therefore - likely more sympathetic as well. It's an important part of his character development, and one that needs to be handled properly to be related to non-book-reading viewers on the TV medium.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

But he did push Bran to hide his and Cersei's secret! Surely that's evil?

It's ruthless for sure. But it's only pure evil until you realize that Jaime might have pushed Bran out of necessity - that is, he had to do to protect his life and that of his lover and his children.

(Personally I still don't excuse him for this - Jaime pushing Bran was probably not necessary to protect Cersei and her kids.)

[Knight of the Teabags]

I think Cersai is certainly going to be more likeable (though not necessarily more sympathetic) in the TV series, simply because her greatest assets can be fully realised in a visible and audio medium whereas in a written form beauty and charm will always be limited in 'translation' when they are best heard and seen. There's a wonderful line of Tyrion's thought in ACoK where he thinks when Cersai turns on her charm even he who deep down despises her is momentually seduced by her. This is course a little marred on the reader who can't see all Cersai's subtle body language, suggestive rises of the eyebrow and variation in tone of voice, etc.

Only on screen does Cersai Lannister fully gets the chance to tempt us all into believing that she only does the terrible things she does 'out of concern for her children'! :smileysex:

[superdeluxe]

Considering we will now have multi-POV narrative, I can definitely see actions from the eyes of where the story is now being told, so yes.

[guyminuslife]

I remember a scene from a Tyrion POV, where Cersei and he have accomplished something while working in cahoots, and he suddenly finds her extremely charming. This is Tyrion we're talking about here, Tyrion who knows all about his sister and hates her guts. "This must be what Jaime sees," he thinks.

In one of the teaser clips we see, it's a private conversation between Jaime and Cersei. And we get to see her the way she is around Jaime, before his whole heel-face-turn and her own growing spite and paranoia after Joffrey's assassination. I mean, she may be a stone cold bitch, but there's a reason Jaime likes her. So we get to see the charming side of her.

I also think Lysa Arryn (I don't think they've shown any of her scenes) will come across as more sympathetic.

[Abdo]

I actually think Jamie's going to come off as less sympathetic rather then more sympathetic, from what I've read he they're playing up his position as a rival of sorts to Ned, plus much of his arrogance and pride are filtered to the reader through memories of past events or while the viewer is going to see a lot of his arrogance directly. Plus there is a difference between seeing someone throw a child out a window and reading it. I do think we will see some more of Jamie's other aspects in the first season but that any sympathy will be overshadow by greater levels of arrogance. If you really think about it in the first book Jamie is not a huge character, its mostly after we've read all four books that we really see him as a vital figure. Note: I'm considering this a lot more from how a person watching the show for the first time rather then reading the books as the first exposure would feel. I don't think the show will change any readers opinons of characters cause thats pretty much ground into our system already.