How do you cope with the rising cost on gasoline?

[Nafro]

See, I don't get the fully electric car bit. The energy still has to come from somewhere. Aren't people pretty much trading in gas cost for electricity cost with a fully plug-in car?

Yes, and electricity is damn expensive to produce. However, you cannot operate a vehicle without some form of energy. Trust me, its physics. :smug:

[Shryke]

The thing is, one of the major reasons living in the US or Canada is better than Europe is the amount of space we have.

Then you are gonna have to pay for it. Space and long commutes to get it and such have always been a luxury. It's just been a cheap one. Now the price is ramping up.

See, I don't get the fully electric car bit. The energy still has to come from somewhere. Aren't people pretty much trading in gas cost for electricity cost with a fully plug-in car?

Yes, but electricity can be cheaper because there's tons more ways to generate it. Plus it's centralized which makes it easier to make cleaner and cheaper.

[Nafro]

Oh yes, although I normally don't approach these issues from a cost perspective. Oil is a finite resource, while electricity is theoretically quite unlimited. I understand this is probably not a common perspective amongst other Americans.

Edit: This is in response to Balefont.

Isn't most of the electricity in this country produced from coal or natural gas? If we could quit being stupid and build more nuke plants, I would say electric is indeed a viable option.

[Nafro]

Then you are gonna have to pay for it. Space and long commutes to get it and such have always been a luxury. It's just been a cheap one. Now the price is ramping up.

Agree 100%. And I am definitely willing to pay for it. This is why I don't bitch about gas prices and get irritated by those who do while in the same breath talk about how they got a great deal on a house, 100 miles outside the city.

[Deaf Dick]

The thing is, one of the major reasons living in the US or Canada is better than Europe is the amount of space we have.

I'm not going to get into which is better to live in, going down that road will end badly.

But the space pretty much defines the culture differences. I'm a firm believer in the old saying: necessity is the mother of invention. Americans consume more land and resources than Europeans simply because we can. I was in Japan for a month on business, and I was very impressed with their efficiency, but because of their population density and scarcity of land, they have to be that way. It looks like now the U.S. has realized that resources are no longer infinite and we should probably take some cues from cultures that have dealt with this phenomenon for decades.

[TerraPrime]

See, I don't get the fully electric car bit. The energy still has to come from somewhere. Aren't people pretty much trading in gas cost for electricity cost with a fully plug-in car?

The difference is that with gasoline, it has to come from fossil fuels. Electricity, on the other hand, can be generated from alternate sources. As update our electricity output, we we be using more alternate sources like wind, solar, biomass, etc., and thus we can improve the carbon emission. But even in current state where most electricity comes from coal-burning power plants, it still comes out as a slight savings, when all the attendant costs, such as refining petroleum and coal extraction, are figured in. This will only improve over time as we transition to better fossil fuels (natural gas) and to zero-carbon based fuel sources.

[Nafro]

I'm not going to get into which is better to live in, going down that road will end badly.

Yeah, I probably shoudl have put an "IMO" after that statement. One thing that is interesting to note, is that though your commute time and need for a car is much less in the city, your other costs of living (rent, house prices, even groceries) seem to be higher. I wonder if these increased costs offset the increased commuting cost. I bet they do.

[TerraPrime]

Yeah, I probably shoudl have put an "IMO" after that statement. One thing that is interesting to note, is that though your commute time and need for a car is much less in the city, your other costs of living (rent, house prices, even groceries) seem to be higher. I wonder if these increased costs offset the increased commuting cost. I bet they do.

It'll depend on the price point for cost-of-living versus gas. What works for Des Moines, IA, might not work so well for St. Louis, MO.

[Balefont]

Thank you all. I've wondered what the benefit would be and now I know. I just hate the idea of giving National Grid anymore of my money.

[Renasko]

I bike. And walk.

A noble man.

[Shryke]

Yeah, I probably shoudl have put an "IMO" after that statement. One thing that is interesting to note, is that though your commute time and need for a car is much less in the city, your other costs of living (rent, house prices, even groceries) seem to be higher. I wonder if these increased costs offset the increased commuting cost. I bet they do.

Well yeah. If you've ever shopped for property ... ever (and actually thought about it for 2 seconds) there's always a trade-off between:

Location (where you are)

State of the Property (How big, how new, how nice, etc)

Price

Better location (in terms of commuting in this case) means higher price for the same type of property or a smaller/worse/etc property for the same price and so on.

Whether they off-set the costs depends, but the thing here is that the amount off-set is dependent on fuel prices. The higher fuel goes, the less you have to off-set it. And this is a trend that will only continue.

[Nafro]

Well yeah. If you've ever shopped for property ... ever (and actually thought about it for 2 seconds) there's always a trade-off between:

Location (where you are)

State of the Property (How big, how new, how nice, etc)

Price

Better location (in terms of commuting in this case) means higher price for the same type of property or a smaller/worse/etc property for the same price and so on.

Whether they off-set the costs depends, but the thing here is that the amount off-set is dependent on fuel prices. The higher fuel goes, the less you have to off-set it. And this is a trend that will only continue.

However, as the fuel prices go up, more people will decide that the trade-off is not worth it and will try to move to the city. This will in turn drive up the prices in the city while driving down the prices in the suburbs. People will then decide that the trade-off is worth it............and so on, and so on. Effing Economics. I always hated that shit.

[Anatole Kuragin]

tl;dr, but I doubt this has been addressed: how fucking stupid do you have to be in this day and age to not know that you tip your pizza delivery guy?

[Nafro]

tl;dr, but I doubt this has been addressed: how fucking stupid do you have to be in this day and age to not know that you tip your pizza delivery guy?

Lulz. I usually just pick up my pizza (lower price, no delivery fee, no tip) but if gas keeps going up, I may start using the delivery guy again. :D

[Shryke]

And just to shift this for a second, people like to phrase issues and solutions to rising gas prices in terms of "where you live" and "how you get to work" and such, but ultimately that's not all it's about. Our lifestyle, especially in North America, is built on cheap gas. As gas stops being cheap, that lifestyle has to and will change.

But it is a lifestyle change and so isn't, or doesn't have to be, just confined to the specific, immediate part of our lifestyle you usually talk about.

For example, as Tormund obliquely mentioned, telecommuting. For many jobs, there's no reason people need to come in every weekday from 9-5. There's tons of savings to be had in working from home, say, 3 days a week.

Shifting the workweek to 4 days is another much more radical idea.

There's all sorts of changes that can be made to accommodate higher fuel costs into our lives. But we will have to accommodate them.

[Guest Raids]

Yeah, I probably shoudl have put an "IMO" after that statement. One thing that is interesting to note, is that though your commute time and need for a car is much less in the city, your other costs of living (rent, house prices, even groceries) seem to be higher. I wonder if these increased costs offset the increased commuting cost. I bet they do.

It's difficult to parse this out in DC, because so much revolves around the metro. You can live (1) in the city and near the metro, (2) outside of the city and near the metro, (3) in the city and not near the metro and (4) out of the city and not near the metro.

4 is going to be so much cheaper that you could not offset the price increase compared to 1 by driving less, but 3 is certainly an option if you biked, took the bus, and lived close to your office. Not a good option if you have kids though, but 2 would be.

It's worth calculating out the actual savings. From one car to no cars, we're saving $100/month in gas (before the recent increase), parking (which would factor into 2 and 3, also), the car payment, and insurance. All together it's $800/month on what was a $350/month car payment. But, we tend to get a zip car about once a month and take cabs about 5-6 times a month, so it's really about $110 less savings than $800. Still, that's a ton of freaking money.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Lulz. I usually just pick up my pizza (lower price, no delivery fee, no tip) but if gas keeps going up, I may start using the delivery guy again. :D

Every pizza hut driver just took a big pay cut for any time they're driving based on the theory that we're getting tipped. And yet every fucking white trash piece of shit ignores this. And it's not like they can't afford to, if they're blowing six extra bucks for stuffed crust and four things of ranch.

[Shryke]

However, as the fuel prices go up, more people will decide that the trade-off is not worth it and will try to move to the city. This will in turn drive up the prices in the city while driving down the prices in the suburbs. People will then decide that the trade-off is worth it............and so on, and so on. Effing Economics. I always hated that shit.

Yes, but it won't drive down gas prices. Gas prices will keep rising and suburban lifestyle will continue to rise in price. (even though the housing may get cheaper and cheaper)

What you are more likely to see, from examples elsewhere in the world, is accommodation. People will get used to less. Smaller houses, smaller apartments, etc, etc.

The richer and wealthier may still make any choice they want because they are generally unconstrained by the forces effecting the less wealthy, but most people will be forced to deal.

Edit: Raids just reminded me of the other effect you could/will see, which is public transportation. As gas becomes more expensive, people will find cheaper ways to commute.

Which I doubt anyone who is pushing for dealing with these issues will complain about. :P

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Well yeah. If you've ever shopped for property ... ever (and actually thought about it for 2 seconds) there's always a trade-off between:

Location (where you are)

State of the Property (How big, how new, how nice, etc)

Price

Better location (in terms of commuting in this case) means higher price for the same type of property or a smaller/worse/etc property for the same price and so on.

Whether they off-set the costs depends, but the thing here is that the amount off-set is dependent on fuel prices. The higher fuel goes, the less you have to off-set it. And this is a trend that will only continue.

This is so very true. For the same price as a nice house in a nice neighborhood in the burbs you get a crappy, too small appartment in a crime and drug infested place near work.

I don't complain about the price of the gas, but I can point out what it is now when someone asked to compare what people pay monthly.

(right now I am using less than a tank a month though...that's lucky only if not working is lucky)

[Nafro]

Every pizza hut driver just took a big pay cut for any time they're driving based on the theory that we're getting tipped. And yet every fucking white trash piece of shit ignores this. And it's not like they can't afford to, if they're blowing six extra bucks for stuffed crust and four things of ranch.

It honestly blows my mind that people are still not tipping the pizza dude. Not tipping the lady at Starbucks, I can understand that. But its the pizza dude, man!