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Let's have that conversation about kids


Guest Raidne

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Guest Raids

I'll be frank and will go right for the oversharing: this is constantly on my mind lately. I'm nearing panic attack mode.

Do I want to have kids or not? I'm to the point where I can even read Elizabeth Gilbert on this subject and feel understood. I'm terrified that my life will devolve into a revolving door of drudgery with zero downtime.

This seems to be confirmed by this New York Magazine article, which discusses a study where "researchers collected 1,540 hours of footage of 32 middle-class, dual-earner families with at least two children, all of them going about their regular business in their Los Angeles homes. The intention of this study was in no way to make the case that parents were unhappy. But one of the postdoctoral fellows who worked on it, himself a father of two, nevertheless described the video data to the Times as “the very purest form of birth control ever devised. Ever.”

Right. Exactly.

On the other hand, my husband absolutely wants to have kids. Naturally we talked about this before we were married, and I thought I'd come around the idea of wanting one child. But, if I'm being honest, the idea still fills me with total and utter dread.

Did anyone else feel this way? Did you have kids? Is it just a normal stage and not actually evidence that you really don't want to have children?

I also can't tell if I really just don't want kids, or if it's just that I feel like the domestic tasks are already skewed in my direction and I will possibly just explode if anything gets any worse on that front, and all the available data suggests that it will.

How to think about this? What to do?

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This happens to be one of those cases where research/studies are entirely useless. The answer is, it's up to you.

Domestic tasks in your case will probably fall entirely upon you. Is there anything you can do about that? Get him to pick up the slack, do the cooking perchance?

In general, barring some 'accident' the negator overrules the decision. I would like to have kids, and I have a lot of experience being around kids and caring for them to varying degrees. I am very well aware of the stress kids represent.

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There is no easy answer, but rest assured that you're not alone. There is a huge child-free population/movement and there are even more of us who remain conflicted.

I go back and forth. I know if I had a child, I would love him/her to pieces and be a good parent. (My husband would be even better.) Yet, I like my life the way it is. I like lazy weekend mornings and dinners out. I like travel and having my evenings free. But I also thoroughly enjoy coloring with my friends' children and going to their soccer games. I'm on the fence. My husband is more pro-kids, but can also understand my fence sitting. Basically, we've decided that either way is fine with us in the end. (Our attitudes matter not a jot since I'm in my mid 30s, not preventing and have never been pregnant. The one thing we know is that we can't afford medical intervention and wouldn't choose it anyway.)

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Guest Raids

Some of my friends' kids are really great, and some of them really aren't. And I'm not skewed toward the well-behaved kids even, I just like the kids that have big personalities and are fun to interact with.

Isn't it entirely possible that you won't like your kids? My Mom was pretty clear about not liking me overly much after all. Is this perhaps more rare than I think it is?

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I think society has conditioned most of us to want kids, or at least feel bad about not wanting them, and I think that is something you need to keep in mind here. Don't let society's hangups influence your decision.

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Isn't it entirely possible that you won't like your kids? My Mom was pretty clear about not liking me overly much after all. Is this perhaps more rare than I think it is?

Maybe you were a jerk as a kid. A lot of kids are jerks, that's life, and hopefully they grow out of it as you have. My mother hated everyone, because everyone was a jerk when I was growing up, and as we see, a lot of people are no longer jerks... I also have no idea what she thinks of anything anymore either.

Yeah, just don't have a jerk kid and you'll be fine.

I think society has conditioned most of us to want kids, or at least feel bad about not wanting them

More like - If you don't have kids, you failed in life as far as evolution is concerned, full stop.

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Some of my friends' kids are really great, and some of them really aren't. And I'm not skewed toward the well-behaved kids even, I just like the kids that have big personalities and are fun to interact with.

Isn't it entirely possible that you won't like your kids? My Mom was pretty clear about not liking me overly much after all. Is this perhaps more rare than I think it is?

I'm the same way. And I don't start really liking them until about 18 months to 2 years, when they acquire language skills. Babies are cute to cuddle, but they don't hold my interest the way toddlers do. And I loathe sneaky kids!

I have no idea bout not liking your kids since I have none. But there are definitely kids I like waaaaay more than others. (They say you like your own due to the hormones released when you have 'em.)

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Raidne -

I was in a similar position as you (and my husband's biological clock was TICKING). It's really hard. We both work FT and have quite demanding jobs. Most recently, my husband has been away for 2 months (more or less) for a hell hole of a case. That makes it harder.

BUT

It's amazing, and kind of transcendent to have kids. It's hard to explain - I read somewhere (in one of these studies) that they found that people without kids were "happier" whatever that meant, but that people with kids experienced more frequent, and more intense, feelings of "joy." I know exactly what they mean.

BUT

We have plenty of money, so if we encounter a bump in the road, we can, and do, throw money at it. There are a lot of people who might question our parenting choices - we go out to dinner (when my husband is home) at least once a week (we get a sitter - she comes at bedtime). I haven't quit my book club. I still find time to go out with friends from time to time. We are considering leaving them with my Mom for a long weekend at some point in the near future (so that I can get some sleep :)). That is, I don't feel the need to spend every non-sleeping, non-working moment with my kids (and I can afford not to).

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Guest Raids

Having kids doesn't necessarily really seem like a net positive for the quality of your marriage either, based on the stuff written about it. Women feel overwhelmed, men feel neglected, or in households with more equitable distributions, both partners are exhausted.

This is hard thing to know about because most of your friends aren't really going to tell you about how bad their marriage has gotten, etc.

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The risk is not worth it to me.

It's not the work. I can deal with the work. It's the risk that your kid will, despite what you do and what you want, turn out to be a piece of shit. I've seen examples of this. Most of the time, it works out not to be like that. But once in a while, you just get a case where the parents seem to have hit all the right notes, or in the least no major missteps that others can see, and yet, their kid(s) are just horrible human beings.

That, to me, is like play Russian roulette. No thanks.

When I do feel the urge to interact with kids, I'll just borrow them from friends and families for a weekend or two.

It's like your car situation, you know? Rent it when you really need it, but in your daily life, you don't really need a car to get by. The cost and headache to maintain a car is sometimes not worth the benefits. And at least with cars, if you get a lemon, you can get a new one. Not so with kids.

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You can always take them back if you don't like them - just keep the receipt.

But seriously, most couples that I know that had the same reservations ended up with kids anyway and have NO regrets. There are some that never did and regret it. I know of only one couple that had a kid that wished they hadn't - and they had five, and two are special needs (they love their kids but if they had a do over they wouldn't). Most would.

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I'm with you Raidne - Mrs. Midgetsbane wants kids and I figured I'd come around to it, but I'm not coming around. I like the way life is going, I can't see kids adding anything positive to what I have. I don't have some hole in life that only kids will fill, and I don't hear some ticking clock in my background.

I'm not sure that I would like the kid if it did come around. Babies don't particularly like me, and I get bored with them pretty quick. Kids are decently cute around age 5-8 and insufferable from then until age 25.

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You can always take them back if you don't like them - just keep the receipt.

But seriously, most couples that I know that had the same reservations ended up with kids anyway and have NO regrets. There are some that never did and regret it. I know of only one couple that had a kid that wished they hadn't - and they had five, and two are special needs (they love their kids but if they had a do over they wouldn't). Most would.

Is there a way to say that you do regret having kids without coming across as a heartless misanthrope?

Once you buy into it, it's hard to have regrets. You pretty much have to convince yourself that you don't have regrets, otherwise, I can't imagine how you'd get through life, looking at your kids daily, thinking "Gosh, I wish I hadn't had you." That'd be terrible, for both the parent and the kid.

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As to having kids or not, I can't advise as I'm very biased. I can however comment on having only one child.

I have three kids, but really my youngest is, in effect, an only child (he's 8 his brother is 21 and sister 24). He HATES being an only child, he hates his brother being an "adult". I truly wish I had another close to his age. I am sure not all single kids feel this way, but when mine does, it makes me regret not having another child.

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If I were you, I'd not do it until I felt that I wanted to have one. But that's just me.

Bailes will be 14 in 4 months (EEK!) and while I love my relationship with her, I'm definitely looking forward to not having to be a daily parent. Then again, she's pretty low maintenance all in all. I think it would be easier if we weren't saddled with my high maintenance, manipulative, conniving 9 year old nephew.

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Having kids doesn't necessarily really seem like a net positive for the quality of your marriage either, based on the stuff written about it. Women feel overwhelmed, men feel neglected, or in households with more equitable distributions, both partners are exhausted.

This is hard thing to know about because most of your friends aren't really going to tell you about how bad their marriage has gotten, etc.

Some things are better, some things are worse. I would say net/net our marriage is stronger than before kids, partially because we had to bond over (i) the process of getting to kids (which wasn't easy) and (ii) the sledgehammer to your preconceptions that are twins. But yes, I have a LOT less personal time/good couples bonding time.

I will say, another thing I read asks a question - if kids are so terrible, why do people voluntarily choose to have more than one? I'm not sure the old quip about re-marriage (the triumph of hope over experience) rings true.

You should make the decision, together with your husband, that is best for you both.

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Is there a way to say that you do regret having kids without coming across as a heartless misanthrope?

Once you buy into it, it's hard to have regrets. You pretty much have to convince yourself that you don't have regrets, otherwise, I can't imagine how you'd get through life, looking at your kids daily, thinking "Gosh, I wish I hadn't had you." That'd be terrible, for both the parent and the kid.

But isn't buying into status quo always easy? She loves her life now, she can love it just as much with kids. Just saying that we usually adjust our depiction of contentment based on what we have, not what we don't. I don't know many people that have a gaping hole in their lives without kids (only couples that have trouble conceiving seem to fit this bill). They were happy without. They are now happy with. I am just saying that I don't think she'd regret having them, but that she might regret not.

I never wanted kids. I still don't like most other people's children. I did get pregnant at a very young age and I am so thankful for her - and she is NOT an easy child (brilliant, huge personality, very stubborn, lazy, and sometimes too self-involved - sometimes absolutely the most caring person I know). I wish I hadn't had her so young, but I am so glad to have her in my life - even though we've been through hard times. The lazy Saturdays come back. The time to yourself comes back. But the time to have kids doesn't.

My only regret is not having more closer to her age. If I was to have more (and I'm young enough to kind of start over) I would definitely have at least two close together.

Edit: Not saying that she should feel obligated to do so, because some happy couples do and are totally fine with it. Each couple is different. But it IS a big deal to not have them, just as it is a big deal to have kids. I know I'm a better person for being a mom, even though in a million years I wouldn't have believed that to be true.

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I don't even question it, I don't want kids. I'm really very certain of this. I hear people talk about what it is like having kids and think to myself "nope, not for me." I'm happy for my friends who become parents, because in their cases they really wanted it.

And I don't even really like kids anyway. I don't wish to really spend time with my friends kids. I know that sounds horrible, but it is true. I can't magically change the way I feel about kids. It's not as if I wish them harm, quite the opposite. I wish every child had a loving happy home and felt safe and had all the opportunities in the world. I'm just glad I don't have be the one to do that. I also don't mind it when kids act up in public so much anymore. Whatever, they are kids being kids and I can go home and not be bothered by them.

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Some of my friends' kids are really great, and some of them really aren't. And I'm not skewed toward the well-behaved kids even, I just like the kids that have big personalities and are fun to interact with.

Isn't it entirely possible that you won't like your kids? My Mom was pretty clear about not liking me overly much after all. Is this perhaps more rare than I think it is?

Yes, it's totally possible that you won't end up liking your kids. Even fairly early. Personalities manifest very early.

I'm going to go on the side of birth control. Having kids is hard. Even the best behaved, nicest, sweetest kids in the world - it is hard work. Do you value your privacy, like being able to take a shower by yourself? Good luck with that. Good luck going to the bathroom by yourself. Do you like being able to sleep through the night? Good luck with that too - well after they're in their own bed and room. Want to eat nice things? Good luck with that. Want to take a quick trip anywhere? There are no such things as quick trips.

You will be sleep deprived. You will have almost no time to yourself, and when you do it will almost always be at the expense of sleep. Your sex life will suffer. Your personal life will suffer. Your relationship with your spouse will suffer. You will lose track of friends and be unable to socialize nearly as much, and when you do you will be that person whose baby has eaten their brain, since your life now consists almost entirely of taking care of a child.

Then they start being able to talk with you, and understand you. Does that make it easier? Oh no - it's just as hard, only different. Before this you thought that if they could just accept that mommy was tired and didn't want to play right that instant that they'd be okay with it. Or that no, it wasn't okay to draw on the walls because it'd need to get cleaned, and that would make sense. Or no, the street isn't for running into, and no, it's not good to throw rocks at the plasma TV. If you could just make them understand they'd be logical and accept it. No. Now they understand you and do not care. They know you don't want them to do it and derive massive pleasure from driving you crazy. They want to get a reaction out of you. Or sometimes they just don't know why they did something. Really, truly. They have not a clue. Put the cat's tail in a blender? Not a clue why.

But then you figure that's just a phase and either force them to obey or teach them to obey. And there's a small window when you're the bestest person ever and they're just little people waiting to be molded. And then...they socialize. Then you have to deal with how they interact with others. Then you get called into principal's office to explain why your child had to 'slap that bitch down like the ho she is' and where she learned that language. You have to explain to your kid that no, there is no halo lego set, and no matter how much poo you sniff on someone's sneaker he won't have it tomorrow.

But okay, you get through that and they're socializing and somewhat sane. Now comes...teenagers. Now all that work you've spent in making that person smart, funny, independent, interesting and caring results in creating someone who is smart, funny, clever, independent and interesting and who knows the best ways to torment you and delights in doing so. Not because they don't know better - because they do. Because to them, you represent everything that is horrible in the world. You are their jailer. You are their apartheid. Striking out against you is striking a blow for freedom and democracy. It is their moral duty to disobey, mistreat, harm and otherwise strike out at you in any way they can. Have other kids? Oh, they can't beat you up but those kids are gonna get a beating. Have friends? Not for much longer. Have valuable possessions? Now the pawn shop does.

For the most part - especially for people with good careers and good relationships - wanting a child is a completely irrational desire.

It is wonderful. The highest highs are found in parenting. For those who say that it is like owning a dog or a chinchilla or whatever, they are wrong. There is nothing like hearing your child laugh for the first time, or seeing them walk, or hearing that first word, or marveling at the raw speed of the human development. But the lows are very, very low.

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