[No Spoilers] Opening credits

[Fez]

Speaking of the credits, this screencap is apparently from a "making of" feature about them. As you can see, the map clearly shows a continent to the west of Westeros. My question is, anyone have any idea what this is about? Is it artistic license? Has GRRM given some advance knowledge to the mapmakers?

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

I imagine it was approved by GRRM, whether or not he told them about it directly. As for what the purpose is, there has been plenty of speculation over the years about one of the things Dany hears during S1.

(general spoiler below, no story-breaking details, I don't think, but a little personal speculation):

This may tie into the prophecy about "to reach the west you must go east", in particular. There's lots of discussion about from which direction Dany will approach Westeros, assuming she makes it that far. It may be that Essos extends that far, or there may be another continent out there.

[Xenophon]

Speaking of the credits, this screencap is apparently from a "making of" feature about them. As you can see, the map clearly shows a continent to the west of Westeros. My question is, anyone have any idea what this is about? Is it artistic license? Has GRRM given some advance knowledge to the mapmakers?

GRRM was consulted re. the map of Essos, so it stands to reason that that other continent could be something he told the mapmakers about. Interesting.

[Lord Godric]

Yup.

Next week we lose Pentos and get Vaes Dothrak instead. Later episodes will also feature the Eyrie.

I'm guessing we'll also get the Twins and maybe Riverrun (depending on how far they get down that road), maybe in the season finale. Possibly Lhazar as well, which would be interesting if it gave us a glimpse of Slaver's Bay downriver. We may also get the Crossroads Inn: it's on the map but:

It doesn't feature on it in Episode 2, where a reasonable amount of action happens there. It's more pivotal I think in Episode 4 so may appear there.

Season 2 I imagine will bring Storm's End, Pyke, Qarth, Harrenhal and maybe Craster's Keep and the First of the First Men into play as well

Glad to hear that they will be moving around the map as the characters move around! I can't wait to see the mechanical versions of other castles and locations.

[Hyper]

Speaking of the credits, this screencap is apparently from a "making of" feature about them. As you can see, the map clearly shows a continent to the west of Westeros. My question is, anyone have any idea what this is about? Is it artistic license? Has GRRM given some advance knowledge to the mapmakers?

Whoa! Great find! it certainly does not appear to contradict any known 'canon' map...

[Werthead]

Vaes Dothrak does appear on the map for Episode 2 but:

They don't reach it in that episode. In fact, at one point Jorah suggests to Viserys they're not far from Pentos and he could head back and chill with Illyrio for a while, which annoys Viserys. I get the impression they're not going to talk about Norvos or Qohor in the show and will just get them straight into the Dothraki Sea, but they're not that close to Vaes Dothrak by the end of Episode 2.

My guess is that the Eyrie appears on the map in Episode 5 and the Twins somewhere around Episode 9. It'd be interesting if they also followed Dany and Drogo from Vaes Dothrak down to Lhazar.

Regarding the map from the 'making of' programme, it would appear to be non-canon and an invention of the mapmakers. If you look carefully, you can see the area around Karhold is duplicated on the 'western continent' map, indicating they threw it together through copy-and-paste. There's also a very large landmass just east of Skagos which does not appear on any other map. The only thing out that way should be Ibben, but Ibben is a small (Iceland-sized, so 300-odd-miles wide, or not much wider than the Wall on the maps) island about a thousand miles to the east of Skagos. Very close examination of the screencap reveals some smaller islands right in the north-eastern corner of the map which could well be Ibben, but the big blob inbetween is clearly some invention of the title sequence-makers, so the 'western continent' could be as well, either thrown in for some colour or because one of the CGI guys was bored.

Interestingly, if you look at the map of Westeros and Essos on the HBO website, there's a whole lotta ocean to the west but it doesn't show much of Essos. My thought for that is that in later episodes they'll push Westeros all the way to the western edge of the map, allowing them to expand Essos to include Vaes Dothrak, Lhazar, the Red Waste, Qarth and Slaver's Bay as Dany's journey takes in those locations. But that doesn't necessitate having some western landmass either.

For the 'going east to reach the west' thing:

GRRM has ruled out anyone travelling to Asshai in the books, but we will hear more about it, possibly even see it in flashback (from Melisandre?). But no-one's going there. That to me suggests that the story of ASoIaF in the books will never go further east than Qarth, and the going east to reach the west thing is a reference to something else (maybe even just Dany 'going east' from Pentos to Meereen and her rule of Meereen being the catalyst that returns her to Westeros.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

That's sort of disappointing about the copy and paste things - I was rather hoping that there might be a few book-related surprises in store for people who have already read the first four.

Re your last point.

I know there are slightly conflicting directions on where Asshai is in relation to the Dothraki Sea, but the impression I got was that it's not just east, but southeast. Asshai may be the biggest port on the East coast of Essos, but there may also be others further north. Yi Ti, or maybe the "dreaming city" or whatever rumoured to be beyond Yi Ti.

None of which means that the map in the Making Of is canon, or anything close to it, just that the direction's not entirely ruled out yet. I know that the other interpretation you mentioned is also a very popular (more popular? probably) alternative.

[Lord Godric]

What surprises me most about this map is not the continent to the West but the landmass to the North. When Martin was asked if the other continents experienced the long seasons like Westeros does, he said that no other continent extends that far north. So that big random peninsula that looks to be at about the same latitude as the Wall seems very much out of place.

[bergenit]

So I was watching a special feature on my HBO ondemand called "Inside the Opening Sequence." It starts by panning down on a large map of the world, but includes continents I've never seen before. It shows a land mass across the "Sunset Sea" off to the west of Westeros. Also, the continent above Essos, presumably with a name reflecting it's northern location...With Westeros, Essos, and Sothoryos all reflecting theirs. Here's a screenshot.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215502_1602082065366_1635524625_1265703_7607347_n.jpg

Thoughts?

[Xenophon]

So I was watching a special feature on my HBO ondemand called "Inside the Opening Sequence." It starts by panning down on a large map of the world, but includes continents I've never seen before. It shows a land mass across the "Sunset Sea" off to the west of Westeros. Also, the continent above Essos, presumably with a name reflecting it's northern location...With Westeros, Essos, and Sothoryos all reflecting theirs. Here's a screenshot.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215502_1602082065366_1635524625_1265703_7607347_n.jpg

Thoughts?

Someone brought this up in this thread. As someone noted, they seem like they contradict GRRM's statement that Westeros is the most northerly continent.

[Hyper]

Yeah the "canonicity" of that map is not assured - until it appears in an actual episode or of of the novels.

[O'san'gar's Razor]

Isaac Hempstead-Wright if my spelling is correct...

In the grand scheme of the history of the world, its not a big deal, but the employee whose job it was to match the dropdown list icon to the actor's name should have his contract reviewed.... sloppy, sloppy, sloppy....

Hopefully he has been sacked, and if he has not, the people responsible for the sacking will be sacked.

[Hyper]

Was anyone else blown away by the episode 2 title change? The new location (Vaes Dothrak) gets a *perfect* panning shot back towards Westeros, and thanks to being inside a sphere, we get a perfect shot of almost the entire Westeros continent.

Brilliant, just brilliant. For the practical reason of figuring out where they are, and the symbolism involved.

[Ran]

Yep. That is why they did the "Dyson sphere" thing. A gorgeous way to establish how far away it is from Westeros, while letting you zoom right over it.

[Werthead]

I like the fact that Vaes Dothrak is a reasonable distance eastwards on the title sequence map. A lot of fan maps seem to stick Vaes Dothrak such a ridiculously long distance to the east that Dany should still be walking there by the time ASoS is over ;) They then confuse this by parking Slaver's Bay about two miles east of Volantis, which doesn't track at all with Dany's journeys.

So Vaes Dothrak being east and slightly south of Pentos, maybe a thousand or so miles, maybe a bit more, allows Dany and Drogo and crew to ride just a few hundred miles south-east to Lhazar, and basically just south-west of there is Slaver's Bay and south--east into the Red Waste, Qarth and the Jade Sea. And that makes Essos big (much bigger than Westeros) without being insanely vast.

Of course, all of this only counts if GRRM approved or supplied a map with the location of Vaes Dothrak on it. If the title squence makers just made it up, the info may be useless ;)

Ran, do you think the map is going to mover to Lhazar in the last episode or so?

[Ran]

I suspect it will.

[Xenophon]

I see it's already been commented on, but I just wanted to 2nd (or 3rd or 4rd) the opinion that putting the map inside a sphere was an awesome way of showing distance. Absolutely brilliant! I don't think I've ever seen an opening sequence that does as much work as this.

[Werthead]

That's sort of disappointing about the copy and paste things - I was rather hoping that there might be a few book-related surprises in store for people who have already read the first four.

Blowing up and lighting up the map, I also see a couple of other copy-pastes on the 'western continent': the east-facing peninsular in the far north is Dorne, but bolted onto the top of the continent rather than the bottom. The peninsular pointing at Blazewater Bay also looks strongly like an extended version of the area around Storm's End, including the offshore island.

The programme was only on HBO On-Demand, right? Would be interesting to see the full thing.

[theMountainGoat]

I was looking at the episode two title sequence last night trying to get a sense of how far east Vaes Dothrak is from Pentos and I would agree, a little over 1000 miles. Although that is really difficult to judge with the way the camera speeds up and zooms in as it gets closer to Vaes Dothrak. But I think it is a lot further south than Pentos, from the angle of direction the camera moves in it seems Vaes Dothrak is about as far south as Tyrosh. This probably tracks with the location of Slaver's Bay which we believe is further south than Dorne.

But more surprising to me was how narrow the Dothraki Sea is with a huge desert area to the north of it. All fan made maps of Essos have always had the grasslands stretching all the way to the coastline, but then we had no other information to go on and of course this might not be canon for the books.

[Werthead]

I definitely wouldn't take anything as canon, though it's useful for coming up with ideas. I also note that the area around Pentos is not as described in the books, where the area is more temperate and the route into the Dothraki Sea goes east over a large river where Norvos is and then through the Forest of Qohor and the city of Qohor. Both Free Cities and the forest are missing from the title sequence map. Interestingly, however, the HBO Viewer's Guide Map has empty plains around Pentos with no signs of the Hills of Andalos, but the title sequence map does have some steep-looking hills near the city which could be them.