Jump to content

[BOOK SPOILERS] Season two


marwyn

Recommended Posts

Nobody is suggesting Dany will get cut, but she is entirely divorced from the main storyline and that only gets worse in S2. I can see them building Dany's stay in Qarth to a much greater degree than in the books, I doubt she will go to Vaes Torollo. If her arc is well done it will be a nice supporting arc, but that is it. The main storyline in ACOK is the war.

While the viewers will probably wonder when the parallel storylines will converge, the writers will be able to throw them a bone now and again to satisfy them. For instance, I hope they emphasize a certain character in this first season, so that when he shows up across the water in ACoK, the viewers get a nice connection back to the main story (and I wonder if that reveal will be made in Season 2, rather than Season 3).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theon is an ambulatory waste of a meatbag.

There it is. The response I expected, and which is likely what Martin wanted to portray.

Theon is a pathetic, hard-headed, incompetent fool. Yet he is so very, very human. He brought failure upon himself. And thats what is so tragic.

We have so many characters born in tragic conditions (Tyrion, Dany, Jon) and others who acquire it through no fault of their own (Bran), yet Theon is the shining example of bring about his own downfall.

I would draw parallels with him and Pormqual in DG, because they are very much the same, but we see the motive behind Theon's actions. We can see the scared little child trying to prove to his unloving father that he is worth something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody is suggesting Dany will get cut

Actually, it seemed to me that Bronn is God was suggesting exactly that ;) Which is why I went into detail about that. The rest of your post I completely agree with - she'll be a supporting arc at most. The main conflict of season 2 should be Stannis vs Robb vs Lannisters.

I'm not sure I find theon that deep or well-written. Or well, maybe he's wellwritten but he's not that sympathetic or tragic. He's just a douche.

But I'll reiterate again, the main point I was trying to make about the storylines. It's not so much the substance of the storylines themselves, but trying to juggle 8-9 different storylines in a weekly hourlong tv series doesn't seem like a good idea - whatever those storylines are. I think if they seriously try and tell all the stories it will become a pretty confusing mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theon's 'tragic' nature is brought on by Theon being an idiot. The only 'virtue' he learned from being Ironborn was to dismiss the opinions of women, which in the case of his much smarter sister is his own damned fault. I find him pathetic, which I suppose is a sub-category of tragic. He could have kept the virtues of the Ironborn (such as they are) including strength of purpose and self-sufficiency OR acquired the virtues of the Starks (honor and loyalty), but did neither. As human being, Theon is an ambulatory waste of a meatbag.

The tragedy of Theon is that he's caught between being a good Stark and being a good Greyjoy. He desperately want the approval of his father and the Ironborn, and the only way to do that is to be a ruthless reaper. But having grown up in the north he actually respect the way of the Starks and want to be like them, and Ned in particular.

The sole reason he refuses to leave Winterfell with Asha is because deep down he wants to rule Winterfell, it's the Stark part of him that makes being the Lord of Winterfell having significant meaning to him.

But being torn between the two and trying to be both he ended up being miserable at both, he's neither the ruthless reaper that the Ironborn respects, nor is he the honorable Northman that people people in the North respects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theon's 'tragic' nature is brought on by Theon being an idiot. The only 'virtue' he learned from being Ironborn was to dismiss the opinions of women, which in the case of his much smarter sister is his own damned fault. I find him pathetic, which I suppose is a sub-category of tragic. He could have kept the virtues of the Ironborn (such as they are) including strength of purpose and self-sufficiency OR acquired the virtues of the Starks (honor and loyalty), but did neither. As human being, Theon is an ambulatory waste of a meatbag.

Battle of the Bronns? My money is on the bastard from the Eyrie. :P

As far as what GRRM said, do you think he absolutely knows it's 10 more episodes or is just thinking it will be as based on the first season?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I'll reiterate again, the main point I was trying to make about the storylines. It's not so much the substance of the storylines themselves, but trying to juggle 8-9 different storylines in a weekly hourlong tv series doesn't seem like a good idea - whatever those storylines are. I think if they seriously try and tell all the stories it will become a pretty confusing mess.

Oh, I respectfully disagree. Having watched the world's best soap opera on-and-off for more than 20 years (the recently-cancelled All My Children!), I know from first-hand experience that 8 or 9 or 12 characters can be handled well and with nuance by competent writers, by simply staggering the episodes so that one deals with one set of 4-6 (main) characters, and the next deals with another set of 4-6 characters. This treatment increases the "cliffhanger" aspect of each storyline, and keeps viewers coming back for more, in anticipation of seeing their favorite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I respectfully disagree. Having watched the world's best soap opera on-and-off for more than 20 years (the recently-cancelled All My Children!), I know from first-hand experience that 8 or 9 or 12 characters can be handled well and with nuance by competent writers, by simply staggering the episodes so that one deals with one set of 4-6 (main) characters, and the next deals with another set of 4-6 characters. This treatment increases the "cliffhanger" aspect of each storyline, and keeps viewers coming back for more, in anticipation of seeing their favorite.

Are those characters all in separate parts of the world, some of them never intersecting with other main characters?

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I've just personally never seen it done on tv, and I've my doubts whether it would for non-bookreaders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, George corrected himself on his blog already:

P.S. A late correction. Actually, I don't KNOW how many more episodes. Could be ten. Could be more. Could even be fewer, I suppose, though I don't really think so. Myself, I'd love to see twelve episodes this second time around, since CLASH is a hundred pages longer than GAME. But that's a call for HBO and Dan and David, and I am sure they will let us know once it's made.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are those characters all in separate parts of the world, some of them never intersecting with other main characters?

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I've just personally never seen it done on tv, and I've my doubts whether it would for non-bookreaders.

No, the entire show centered around the fictional town of Pine Valley. But why should it matter? Cutting from one location in one town -- say, a rich mansion -- to another in the same town -- say, a poor apartment -- is not materially different from cutting between distinct locations across a continent, or even on different continents.

The audience will understand that these are different characters in a different castle or township or field or waterway. Cutting between and among them is not as confusing as you seem to think it is, IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are those characters all in separate parts of the world, some of them never intersecting with other main characters?

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I've just personally never seen it done on tv, and I've my doubts whether it would for non-bookreaders.

Yeah, does Dany's story intersect with the main plot at all in ACoK?

Judging from the previews, it seems like HBO is keeping her plot closely connected to the main plot in the first season, by emphasizing the quarrel between Robert and Ned over whether to assassinate her. Off hand, I can't think of any similar connection in the second book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something to keep in mind, not every character is going to appear in every episode of the season. There's a certain very prominent character in The Wire who only appeared in four episodes of it's fourth season. This is likely to happen with Jaime (though I personally expect his first chapter from A Storm of Swords to be in the season 2 finale).

Dany doesn't have as much to do in A Clash of Kings, but I think it'll be ok since viewers have already spent an entire season getting to know her. In ither case, I expect to see her less in season 2. Someone suggested that they put some of her A Storm of Swords story in season 2, and I think that's a great idea if season 2 is 12 episodes, but not if it's only 10.

I also think that Theon will miss a couple episodes, as will Davos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jaime will definitely be reduced, but I think they'll still have him in several episodes. They'll draw out Cat's conversations with him and might even bring him before Robb/Edmure/Blackfish for questioning a few times just to include him.

The smartest way to deal with Dany in the second season is to include some of her Storm storyline. It's not like it matters how her story unveils compared to the books. The only key part is Whitebeard's arrival, which cannot come too close to Joffrey's dismissal of Selmy. Everything else can be included so as not to bog down the third season with Dany conquering strange foreign cities over and over again. A perfect ending for her for the season might be dracarys.

I don't see a reason to cut massive swaths of the main story otherwise. Condensed, sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Whitebeard turns up in her final chapter.

Yeah, that's not much. So they'd have to make thematic connections, I guess.

I'm looking though the book now. Since, as j52y pointed out, she doesn't have to be in every episode, I'd expect them to break her story up like the book chaperts, except maybe the 1st chapter, which could be split across 2 episodes. That would give you some nice mini-arcs, each with a theme that could be connected back to the main story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could they let Jaime out a bit early?

Mmm, then Theon needs to be pushed up, too. Catelyn released Jaime upon receiving the news that Bran and Rickon were dead. They might still end up doing that, but it does give Theon very little to do during the later episodes. Which might work, if they imply that he's dead. (And we don't spoil it for non-readers.) But sucks for the actor, he'd have to be written out until and unless aDWD comes out. Which I guess would be problematic anyway. And it introduces pacing problems into Bran's storyline---I guess they'll just use them every some-odd episode, to check back in on what he's up to.

I'm sure D&D are scratching their heads right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could they let Jaime out a bit early?

Maybe they will show his attempted escape? If not there is going to be basically no Jaime the whole season which might be strange since they are adding Jaime scenes this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Topographical isn't necessary; causal is.

So for instance:

Cat can't talk to Jaime until Bran and Rickon are 'killed' by Theon. That being said, Theon could 'kill' them very early on, almost as early as him taking Winterfell.

Theon has basically no dependence past the King in the North. His events don't intersect with anyone else's save Bran, and there's not a lot Bran is doing until Theon gets there.

Arya's events have to intersect somewhat with Robb's successes; she can't retake Harrenhall until the Northerners are 'captured' and Bolton gets there.

Sansa is one of our eyes into KL along with Tyrion, but their only dependence is on what happens to Renly.

Cat's the real trick though - she has to talk with her brother, talk with Robb, head down to treat with Renly, head back, and then get the news. That's a lot of stuff to do, and it'd be very hard to reverse the events of Renly's death and Cat's freeing Jaime. They could do them fairly early on, but not too early; you still need to introduce Stannis and Mel and establish all that fun time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think we're gonna see Jaime very much in season 2. Scenes from the book (sorta) that will be included in the show:

- Tyrion's escape plan than gets Jaime thrown in the dungeons

- Catelyn's scene with Jaime

- Jaime and Brienne's escape (Jaime's first chapter in A Storm of Swords)

So, that's three episodes. Thrown in one or two scene where Blackfish or Robb talk to him, and maybe one more escape attempt, I don't expect we'll see too much of Jaime in season 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...