[BOOK SPOILERS] Nudity and Sexuality in HBO's GoT

[Balefont]

I guess I just wasn't as sensitive to the nudity. On The Great Pan Down Scene, I actually paid attention to Viserys leaving rather than Dany's ass until this thread. I guess I'm so used to seeing nudity on TV (The Tudors, et al) that I'm just like, "whatev".

And then, upon re-watch, The Great Pan Down is all I notice! Bah!

Then I got talked into watching the first episode of Camelot. Ffs, that Sex on the Beach Scene is the true essence of gratuitous nudity if I've even seen it. :ack:

[Myrddin]

First off, it's HBO. Almost every HBO show loads in the nudity for the pilot, even if it is never seen again.

Secondly, I'm suprised the Pan Down was the biggest affront to the gratuity masses. I thought the topless women at the wedding was far more so, and that not until Dany was walking to her mare, followed by two or three women whose dress amounted to strips of cloth tied to leave their boobs hanging out. That was the only time the nudity didn't seem to serve story.

But in reality, most people watch the episode once. Maybe twice if they catch a rerun, which I managed a few times this week without even trying. (Last night I got into bed and decided to see what was on HBO before I continued reading Wise Man's Fear. Yup GoT). As several people have mentioned above, they didn't notice the pan down until they were watching that part of the screen anyway. ;) Guilty.

As an aside to nudity in pilots, I remember renting the first episode of Stargate back when it was on SHowtime and being completely shocked to have a full frontal there. Yet, I don't think there was ever anymore nudity on the show (while it was on Showtime. Of course there was none once it went to SciFi). Sex and violence sells. If a pay channel can throw it in to get attention, they will.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

As an aside to nudity in pilots, I remember renting the first episode of Stargate back when it was on SHowtime and being completely shocked to have a full frontal there. Yet, I don't think there was ever anymore nudity on the show (while it was on Showtime. Of course there was none once it went to SciFi). Sex and violence sells. If a pay channel can throw it in to get attention, they will.

Yeah, I was too. But in my mind it continued, because that whole first season was full of episodes about Carter getting captured and almost raped, that sort of thing. I was pretty sure I wasn't going to stick with the show if it continued, despite the fact that I otherwise enjoyed it. Apparently the Stargate peeps got the message, though, because we've never had such egregious Carter-subjugation episodes since. For me it wasn't simply about the nudity, but the overall sexism. This has been my argument about Ep1 throughout this thread. I don't care about the Ass-shot of Horror.

[ser_nerdick]

That's a bit of an arrogant and judgemental attitude. Revah said their objection was to "too much gratuitous nudity" not to nudity itself. While i can't presume their exact reasoning isn't it a bit presumptious to just dismiss them as immature and deficient without trying to understand thier position?

No matter what their reasoning is, you have to admit that to flat out say that there is "too much gratuitous nudity" to keep watching the show is being a little hypersensitive about the subject.

I mean, come on... there really wasn't that much nudity in the episode. Altogether a total of 30 seconds perhaps? In an hour long show? I can understand critiquing how the nudity was portrayed or worked into the story, but to swear off the series because of a few brief boobie flashes? That's just being purita.... I mean, that's just silly.

[Revah]

Assuming they are adults, don't you find it strange that they cannot handle nudity on the screen? Rather than it getting toned down, I'd say they need to get toned up.

They're adults, and not particularly. It wasn't so much 'I won't watch a show featuring any nudity' as 'I don't understand why all those scenes were included.' No one scene stood out in particular for them, it was the sheer number of scenes involving nudity or sexual content. I have to say I share that view (though it's not going to deter me from watching! I've been waiting a long time for this series).

When my liberal younger brother (aged 21) is complaining about too much nudity, something's definitely gone wrong. ;)

That's a bit of an arrogant and judgemental attitude. Revah said their objection was to "too much gratuitous nudity" not to nudity itself. While i can't presume their exact reasoning isn't it a bit presumptious to just dismiss them as immature and deficient without trying to understand thier position? Too many people on this thread have just come in and shouted about puritans and prudes and don't seem to be giveing any respect to an alternate view.

Given the several members that have expressed their discomfort or distaste with the way nudity was done and with several anecdotal accounts of the same, do you not think there might be something off?

That's it exactly, reiver. If the fact that it made me feel uncomfortable at moments makes me a prude, so be it, but it seems like quite a few feel the same way. Dany's scene with Drogo struck me as the worst, simply because I wasn't expecting that to be as it was, very different to the book. (I know, there's a thread for discussing that specifically, I won't say any more about it here).

I'm also in the UK and not very familiar with HBO's regular programming, so I guess regular HBO viewers might be more desensitised to on-screen depictions of nudity and sexual violence if it's more typical in their shows.

[Revah]

No matter what their reasoning is, you have to admit that to flat out say that there is "too much gratuitous nudity" to keep watching the show is being a little hypersensitive about the subject.

I mean, come on... there really wasn't that much nudity in the episode. Altogether a total of 30 seconds perhaps? In an hour long show? I can understand critiquing how the nudity was portrayed or worked into the story, but to swear off the series because of a few brief boobie flashes? That's just being purita.... I mean, that's just silly.

*shrug* They only watched it to begin with because I asked them to, they're not book fans. 'Gratuitous nudity' isn't going to drive off the core fanbase, whatever their opinion of it, but it's likely more problematic to the casual viewer.

From my, admittedly limited, sample of casual viewers, anyhow. Your experience might be different.

For why people I know objected, see my post above.

[Lyri]

I figure I'll weigh in briefly on this thread with a perspective that has been either under-represented or not clearly communicated. The nudity didn't bother me in the least. The pan-down ass shot of Dany least of all (as others have posted, I didn't even notice it on first viewing). I find that most nudity in TV shows and movies are gratuitous, so it seems a little disingenuous to debate which particular nipple or ass shots are gratuitous and which are not. I've rarely come across scenes that couldn't effectively communicate the action or point without flashing boobs, ass, penises etc across the scene. It doesn't bother me, but the nudity almost never adds anything to the scene except for the titillation of seeing that which is normally hidden. So there are going to be people that react negatively because they know that the overt showing of nudity is not actually necessary and in some cases may be a distraction. This is HBO. We all know why the nudity is there, and it ain't for artistic integrity or because showing nipples is crucial to the story. That being said, both my senior mom and I can't wait to see Ep. 2.