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Anduin Lothar

Sansa and Littlefinger in ADWD

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I was thinking about this as well, Littlefinger is hands down my favorite character in the series, so if the second half of ADWD takes us back to the South and what not I find it hard to believe that whole book especially the size of this one will not have at least 1 sansa chapter to keep us updated on that storyline. Just my two cents, I really hope we get in I don't know if I can wait another 5 years for a Sansa chapter.

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I predict Littlfinger will die in the first Sansa chapter of TWoW.

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As for Sansa's future, I always took the death of her wolf to mean that her future is no longer tied to the North and to the lineage of Winterfell like the other Starks. In other words, she will no longer be a "Stark."

I do find it very interesting that she is still the wife of Tyrion. I think it would be the ultimate symbol of her journey to pragmatism from the stupid, silly, superficial, idealistic girl to wind up being able to look past the scarred, mangled, dwarf and stay married to him because of his other qualities as well as the fact that through him, she would rule the East. It would be a stretch and a huge surprise . . . but I can see it being the sort of development that would make all sorts of sense from a thematic and character arc point of view. And that would of course also fit with her losing her wolf. She wouldn't be a Stark in the future, she would be a Lion if she sticks with Tyrion . . .

Dennis

Never thought of that, but it's definitely an interesting idea. Even Arya, being across the Narrow Sea, is still tied to the North through her bond with Nymeria (which, I think, will prevent her from ever truly being a Faceless Man--but I digress).

Sansa is much more malleable than any of the other Stark kids (except perhaps Rickon, but he's still basically a baby). She can be anything, another Lannister, another Baelish...I shudder to consider either possibility. LF will likely keep her on a very short leash. Cat got away from him. He won't let the same thing happen with Sansa.

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Yes but Littlefinger will be dead by then, likely arranged by Sansa.

I think Rickon won't have much of a role in this story. It seems fairly obvious to me that he's being kept off-stage to come in at the very end and resurrect Winterfell to keep the Stark line going there.

I doubt Bran's path will lead him back to Winterfell. It seems likely he will fade into the wilderness by the end of the series as a full shaman.

If Sansa winds up in power at Casterly Rock, that will leave only Arya left. Personally, I just don't know what is going to happen to her. Anything is in the cards from death to life so I don't know. I do know that she will reunite with Nymeria thus reclaiming her Stark identity and destiny and she will be reunited with Jon Snow at some point. Nothing beyond that really . . .

Dennis

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Tyrion did only trick Pycelle into revealing his allegiance with his whole Myrcella ruse. He did not learn anything about Littlefinger's or Varys' true allegiance. Although he did realize correctly that Littlefinger was pretty much all about personal advancement and greed during their conversation. He did not, however, realize at all how angry and nasty this man can get when you try to use him as piece in your game. Even Tyrion underestimated the extent of Littlefinger's influence, his capability as a plotter, and his determination to remove people from the game he considers as a threat to himself.

And Varys, well, he learned nothing about Varys he did not yet know. For some reason, Varys did not tell Cersei about his plans. Well. He already knew that Varys does not tell Cersei for some reason about Shae, so that trick gave him no new insight into Varys.

Actually, if you look at Tyrion's chapter carefully, he does manage to inveigle quite a bit of information out of Littlefinger. Now he doesn't have a complete understanding of the man's motives, but unlike Eddard Stark he doesn't trust the man, wisely as it turns out.

About Ser Mandoon Moore, you know, the funny thing about the man is that as Barristan was quoted by Varys as saying, the man lived only for duty. I have always felt it was a royal command by Joffrey (maybe goaded by Littlefinger) that Tyrion not survive the Battle of the Blackwater. Cersei's POV in AFFC doesn't reveal anything about the assassination attempt on Tyrion.

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It's kind of disappointing that Sansa only had 3 chapters in AFFC and will have none in ADWD.

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It's kind of disappointing that Sansa only had 3 chapters in AFFC and will have none in ADWD.

Not disappointing to me. Petyr oozing and sliming and drooling all over Sansa has been the most difficult part of this whole series, for me. It just sickens me, deep in my soul. I'm looking forward to a great book, free of Petyr slime.

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Kind of off topic

I think Arya is going to stick her sister "with the pointy end" I feel like the "don't stab Sansa line" was reiterated a couple of times in AGoT

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Kind of off topic

I think Arya is going to stick her sister "with the pointy end" I feel like the "don't stab Sansa line" was reiterated a couple of times in AGoT

It was "Don't tell Sansa" actually ;) Don't stab Sansa is rather disturbing :P

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I wonder if Arya will spare Sansa, remembering her promise to her father, only to be betrayed by her sister yet again.

As for Sansa and Tyrion, consider this: who arranged that marriage, anyway? Littlefinger knew of the Tyrell plot from Dontos, and in turn told Tywin. He had to know that the Lannisters would attempt to forestall the match, and as Tyrion went through the options, it was clear that he and Tywin both felt that Tyrion was the best way to secure their house's claim (though obviously Tyrion hated the idea for personal reasons). Littlefinger would have been able to predict the whole thing.

So I think that might well be what turns her against him, if she ever does turn. She'll never love, or even like, Tyrion. At best she'll use him callously. She's always preferred a beautiful lie over an ugly truth-- re-read AGoT and you'll see numerous times where she looks down on even her friends. You see the seed of her ambition and self-centeredness even then. And then when the Lannisters move against the Starks, Jeyne Poole is horrified at her father's death, and Sansa couldn't care less even when she realizes his fate. It's not (just) that she's deluding her self. Try to find a place where she actually has a compassionate thought. She's the original "mean girl".

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So I think that might well be what turns her against him, if she ever does turn. She'll never love, or even like, Tyrion. At best she'll use him callously. She's always preferred a beautiful lie over an ugly truth-- re-read AGoT and you'll see numerous times where she looks down on even her friends. You see the seed of her ambition and self-centeredness even then. And then when the Lannisters move against the Starks, Jeyne Poole is horrified at her father's death, and Sansa couldn't care less even when she realizes his fate. It's not (just) that she's deluding her self. Try to find a place where she actually has a compassionate thought. She's the original "mean girl".

Um ignoring the fact this is almost entirely nonsense I will at least take up that next to last sentence: she rather heroically works to save Ser Dontos' life when Joff was going to kill him. The likelihood is that he was going to kill him anyway and probably had her beaten and if it were not for the Hound that probably would have happened anyway.

God she'll use Tyrion callously? *puke*

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I wonder if Arya will spare Sansa, remembering her promise to her father, only to be betrayed by her sister yet again.

Spare Sansa? Why would she want to kill Sansa in the first place? She's not on Arya's list.

And as for Tyrion, it was more Tyrion using Sansa rather than the other way around. He was using her as hostage to get Jaime back (refused a northern prisoner exchange offer involving her) and he married her with the aim to become de-facto lord of Winterfel and to get a pretty wife in the process. Sure he also protected Sansa from other Lannisters at times and he was personally not mean to her, but overall he was still one of those holding her against her will and that of her family.

Sansa does not only show compassion for Dontos, but also for Lancel, for Tommen and Myrcella, for random soldiers at the Blackwater,...

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Yes, but Arya did promise her father she won't stab Sansa, that promise has got to mean something to her, right?

Plus there is still some connection left between the two sisters. One took the name Cat, the other Alayne, put it together you get their mother's name, that's can't be a random coincidence, can it?

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I am concerned that when Sansa is going to be married there will be rumors that she had sex with sweetrobin. He often sneaks into her bedroom and paws at her breasts and they kiss. I believe in storm of swords when they leave the eyrie, sansa convinces sweetrobin to get into the elevator/dumbwaiter by promising she will give him a kiss if he does. Does anyone think that the people of the vale will care that sansa had been (potentially) deflowered if she is to marry harry the heir? Enemies of Petyr (within the vale) could bring this out and try to prevent the marriage of his supposed bastard daughter to their future-lord.

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I am concerned that when Sansa is going to be married there will be rumors that she had sex with sweetrobin. He often sneaks into her bedroom and paws at her breasts and they kiss. I believe in storm of swords when they leave the eyrie, sansa convinces sweetrobin to get into the elevator/dumbwaiter by promising she will give him a kiss if he does. Does anyone think that the people of the vale will care that sansa had been (potentially) deflowered if she is to marry harry the heir? Enemies of Petyr (within the vale) could bring this out and try to prevent the marriage of his supposed bastard daughter to their future-lord.

He's eight. I doubt that will be a problem. Anyway, Harry the Heir won't marrying her for her virtue, he's marrying her for her connected "father".

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He's eight. I doubt that will be a problem. Anyway, Harry the Heir won't marrying her for her virtue, he's marrying her for her connected "father".

The question is what will happen when rumours of Tyrion and Sansa start floating around.

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I have kind of a crazy (or more fun) theory about what will become of Littlefinger and Sansa. It's not so much about Littlefinger's plans, but more about Sansa taking a hand in the vale.

Sansa already got suspious about Petyr's plans for the vale, her and especially for Sweetrobin. So she'll decide to escape the vale together with Sweetrobin. This plan could involve Mya Stone (she's just awesome because of being King Bob's daughter ;) ) and the two hedge knights who were hired by Petyr, who should knew Sansa's identity (they knew who Brienne was talking about, when she was speaking about her "sister", so the should recognize Sansa).

So my theory is the following:

Sansa and Sweetrobin will escape the vale with the help of Mya and the hedge knights, but they'll be captured by the mountain clans. The CSI Mountains of the Moon will find out that Sansa is Tyrion's wife with the help of Shagga, who got bored of raiding the Kingswood, and Chella, who met Sansa before, and so there'll be an alliance of the Stone Crows, the Black Ears, the Burned Men and the Moonboy Brothers and they will finally realize the plan of their halfman king and invade the Eyrie and destroy Petyr's power base, all his plans and finally Petyr will learn to fly

Sweetrobin will be fostered by Shagga and become one of the greatest warriors the seven kingdoms have ever seen and Sansa will be the Queen of the Vale and the Mountain Clans.

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I don't think Littlefinger's that genious. Yes, he's VERY smart, but he's not unbreakable. He'll be catched up in his own web, I guess.

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I think people are being too quick to embrace the whole "Sansa's gonna stab LF in the back and rule" idea. Too predictable, too straightforward, too out-of-character for Sansa, who, despite LF's tutoring, is still a little, naive girl.

I have kind of a crazy (or more fun) theory about what will become of Littlefinger and Sansa...

That's actually feasible, and quite interesting. I can see it happening. :)

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Not disappointing to me. Petyr oozing and sliming and drooling all over Sansa has been the most difficult part of this whole series, for me. It just sickens me, deep in my soul. I'm looking forward to a great book, free of Petyr slime.

Can totally sympathise with this sentiment. I have a horrible feeling that LF will end up taking her "maidenhood" :stillsick:

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