Po-faced?

[jackofarcades]

Compared to say "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman, it was pretty simplistic to me. And I'm sure there are more complicated time travel stories than that out there! Dr Who is such a fantastic universe, and I love the current characters so much, that it is crying out for a great story arc - All you've told me is that Dr Who might not be dead by the end of the series? Is this really a strong arc? Care to sell it better than that?! Maybe I'll watch up until the Neil Gaiman episode...

I love the current trend for story arcs in genre programs - take Star Trek Enterprise, it only got half decent after adopting an arc. If it wasn't for this current trend, we wouldn't see Game of Thrones, that's for sure!

I'm not trying to sell you on anything, just saying you've got your basic facts wrong in a topic where you're complaining about someone else getting their facts wrong. The story being told in this episode is the story that's been told/hinted at for over a year. And some parts of the story longer than that.

[Thelonious]

Compared to say "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman, it was pretty simplistic to me.

But The Forever War is a book, and Doctor Who is a TV show.

[jackofarcades]

And in one case, you're reading the entirety of the Forever War, while you're coming in after 30 years of Doctor Who. Or, at the very least, you're missing at least 7 episodes worth of backstory to fully appreciate the show

[Lommyism]

Not all that current a trend, at least in the Trek universe. DS9 was the first incarnation to adopt a big arc, mostly in response to the positive reception for Babylon 5. That was about 15 years ago.

True, they've been around since the '50s really. But I meant the recent trend wherein it is expected of a TV drama at the moment, and criticism is biased against stand alone episodes. When Babylon 5 ran it was a forerunner, but one program doesn't make a trend. Over the last 10 years it has become a trend and even kids shows have them nowadays.

[Lommyism]

I'm not trying to sell you on anything, just saying you've got your basic facts wrong in a topic where you're complaining about someone else getting their facts wrong. The story being told in this episode is the story that's been told/hinted at for over a year. And some parts of the story longer than that.

Fair enough. I suppose the story arc wasn't clear enough in that episode to draw me in, which is important in a first episode. No arc = alien of the week to me. Maybe the episode didn't do enough to make me interested in the story arc or even be aware that there was one! It wasn't wrong to comment on one episode. Interesting if I did do the same thing, but then you would have to argue it is the failings of that one episode more than the series or story arc as a whole, to draw me in. Normally, you would bookend a story arc more clearly, to let the viewer at least have a clue what is going on, and what might happen further on. But it was just a spaceman and some aliens - really not clear to me.

Maybe the reviewer faced the same thing in those first episodes - not knowing what the hell is going on, and who all these strange people dressed up are, with zero backstory?

[Lord Toblerone]

I didn't know that such panel shows still exist in Britain and are popular to boot. I thought they died a merciful death 5 years ago (they did for the most part in German TV because of oversaturation). Well, that explains the mentioning of Stephen Fry in connection with them. Wouldn't have been quite in place if they were also considered third-rate fare for has-been Comedians.

They are MASSIVELY popular. They reached saturation point years ago and just kept going.

[bcshelton72]

I think that's the key. Most fantasy on TV is fairly light-hearted, or even entirely humorous. A dead-serious drama series in the fantasy genre might cause cognitive dissonance in people who are used to watching Buffy, Xena, or Doctor Who.

I think you have a great point.

As a side-note, I'd recommend you give Buffy a watch. It has at least as much drama as it does camp/Whedon-style-humor. That's the whole point of the series-- taking people's preconceptions about the premise, and turning them on their heads in pretty much every episode. The show has a lot of heart, and a lot of great dramatic beats. It also has some of the best continuity (story arcs) seen on TV so far.. and you can bet the continuity is based on drama, not running jokes.

Buffy is the caliber of series GoT aspires to be-- particularly in terms of compelling characters and good storytelling over long arcs.

[TerraPrime]

Buffy is the caliber of series GoT aspires to be-- particularly in terms of compelling characters and good storytelling over long arcs.

IMO, the characterization and story arc of GoT book series already far exceeded the Buffyverse. What remains to be seen is how much of the book series' brilliance can be translated to TV.

[Brienne the Beauty]

As a side-note, I'd recommend you give Buffy a watch. It has at least as much drama as it does camp/Whedon-style-humor. That's the whole point of the series-- taking people's preconceptions about the premise, and turning them on their heads in pretty much every episode. The show has a lot of heart, and a lot of great dramatic beats. It also has some of the best continuity (story arcs) seen on TV so far.. and you can bet the continuity is based on drama, not running jokes.

Buffy is the caliber of series GoT aspires to be-- particularly in terms of compelling characters and good storytelling over long arcs.

I love Buffy. Watching it for the second time (no, third) at the moment. It's not really what GOT is aspiring to be - it's a very different show, that just happens to be in the same genre.

[bcshelton72]

IMO, the characterization and story arc of GoT book series already far exceeded the Buffyverse.

Yeah, I would agree, but that is beside the point I was making: that the TV show GoT aspires to present GRRM's story with proper dramatic timing, something Buffy (another TV show) excelled at.

What remains to be seen is how much of the book series' brilliance can be translated to TV.

Yep

I love Buffy. Watching it for the second time (no, third) at the moment. It's not really what GOT is aspiring to be - it's a very different show, that just happens to be in the same genre.

I was saying Buffy is the same quality of series, in terms of compelling characters and good storytelling, that GoT should be. My comments had a specific context. I wasn't saying Buffy is anything like GoT in any other way.

The genre doesn't even matter. I think The Wire is another series of a quality that GoT aspires to. I only mentioned Buffy in response to your earlier post that mentioned it.

The upshot of all this is, I think so far GoT is failing to present its dramatic arcs as effectively as The Wire did (even in season 1 of that show). We'll see how things go from here on.. Of course I'm hoping for greatness..

[Green Apple Fossoway]

I was saying Buffy is the same quality of series, in terms of compelling characters and good storytelling, that GoT should be. My comments had a specific context. I wasn't saying Buffy is anything like GoT in any other way.

The genre doesn't even matter. I think The Wire is another series of a quality that GoT aspires to. I only mentioned Buffy in response to your earlier post that mentioned it.

The upshot of all this is, I think so far GoT is failing to present its dramatic arcs as effectively as The Wire did (even in season 1 of that show). We'll see how things go from here on.. Of course I'm hoping for greatness..

I wouldn't agree that Buffy is anywhere near as quality production as either GoT or The Wire. Not even close. Much more sloppy and inconsistent story telling than The Wire.