[No Spoilers] Was Cersei Sincere?

[TerraPrime]

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[Loras]

Using the TV show as it's own canon and separating my knowledge of the books...

Yes, Cersei was sincere. To my mind the story about her first born child does a number of things:

It humanises Cersei, she has been through the death of a child and it hurt her badly. It is something that she doesn't want to go through again, so I see the story as Cersei's justification for what she had Jaime do, despite how guilty she feels. As was mentioned in the initial Twins scene in Ep 1, if Robert had known her secret then both her and Jaime would be decorating the city gates. To an extent Cersei sees Bran's death as a necessary evil to protect her lover.

She also gets to show an understanding to Catelyn - almost, look I know what your going through. Which is a nice touch.

We understand more about the nature of Cersei and Robert's marriage. He loved her at one point. What I took from this was the emphasis on the anger and passion in their relationship, which has now disappeared. It leads viewers to wonder what happened to them as a couple, especially when you consider the cold and occasionally callus way that he has treated her. Eg. During the arrival at Winterfell where he completely disregards her so that he can see Lyanna's crypt. During the feast when he is molesting one of the serving women. During the trial where he disregards her and her input. The evolution of this relationship is something the adaptation is nailing IMO.

Headey's performance in this scene is fantastic, she puts across the conflict within Cersei very well. She doesn't want Bran to die, but she can't risk him living. Her final line about the mother above was excellent. Well done all.

[SpiffySilpion]

Having read the series twice, I still had no idea what to make of this scene but all I can think of is that Cersei is full of crap. For one, she had just stated that letting him live was not a mercy and he would be better off dead. Two, as someone stated earlier, the comment about birds without wings is kind of a bad jape at that moment. Three, the comment about Robert beating his hands on the walls to show how much he loved her was off and came off as obviously untrue to me. It's clear by this episode that they have no love for each other and Robert makes it clear that he didn't love her from the start. All I see here is Cersei doing exactly what Tyrion thought Joffrey should do and in her case for more reason since she would want to divert suspicion.

Randomly, did anyone else find Catelyn's CSI investigation unnecessary?

I'm not entirely sure I like all of Cersei's portrayal. I always pictured her as very sharp and quick, and here Cersei seems more ponderous and slow to respond with her brow always knitted together. An example is the scene when Ned demanded why Robert didn't have Arya brought to him. I always imagined Cersei chastising him in a stronger tone, but in the show she just kinds of says it mildly as if she's making an observation instead of giving him a tongue lashing.

I really have to agree especially with the last statement: I'm not happy with how Cersei is being portrayed. Her demeanor is much more demure and quiet. I love the casting choice, I just don't quite like what's being done with the character. I was wondering last night if they were trying to make her more sympathetic and if so--why, god why?!?

There's something I desperately want to add about why I think she was totally not sincere with her encounter with Catelyn from the books, but it'd be a spoiler. *shrug* But yeah, Cersei is never one to be trusted.

The CSI thing didn't bother me. They're always going to make changes from book to screen and this just wasn't a big deal for me. They had to bring about Lannister suspicion somehow, and a super-long blond hair where really none should be just kind of does the trick quickly and easily.

[alguien]

I got the sense she was sincere.

Given that its an entirely original scene, my guess is that the show's creators are trying to portray Cersei as a slightly grayer, more neutral character than she is in the books. There have been other differences, also a fairly startling comment by Headey that make me think it as well.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, all the mothers in the show so far are getting a bit more of a sympathetic depiction.

[Maia]

IMHO, they decided to portray Cersei a little differently in the show and extended the time-span during which she gave Robert the benefit of doubt after their marriage. This dead baby and Robert going to console himself with other women because he couldn't deal with grieving Cersei would probably constitute the last straw for their relationship _in the show_.

As to explaining why it wasn't well-known, well, it could be rationalized if naming day =/= birthday and if they tend to wait with naming of a child and widely announcing it's birth for a few weeks. Which would make sense in this culture, actually. It can all be made to fit, IMHO.

Re: Cersei's sincerity, I'd say that she does want Bran to die and comes to check up on him, but she also empathises and feels guilty in this scene. That she started telling her story to feign sympathy, but was carried away by emotion.

Personally, I welcome the so-far less mustache-twirling Cersei. I think that her exxagerated portrayal as a complete villainess is one of the few weaknesses of the series.

[Lord Godric]

When I first watched the episode, I thought that Cersei was sincere in her agony over her dead child, but rewatching it, I realize there was no way she was. Cersei was as sincere about her lost child as she was about wishing Bran recovered, and that is not at all. Since this is a no spoiler thread, I'll say no more on the subject.

[Valmy]

Personally, I welcome the so-far less mustache-twirling Cersei. I think that her exxagerated portrayal as a complete villainess is one of the few weaknesses of the series.

Really? I thought she always had reasons for what she was doing, she never just did evil for its own sake.

[GoTreviews]

Randomly, did anyone else find Catelyn's CSI investigation unnecessary?

It felt weird to me as well. But I had too much fun afterwards to hold it against the show :)

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8708/csiwinterfell.jpg

I guess there was... Something in the hair... YEEEEEEAAAAH

[Xenophon]

When I first watched the episode, I thought that Cersei was sincere in her agony over her dead child, but rewatching it, I realize there was no way she was. Cersei was as sincere about her lost child as she was about wishing Bran recovered, and that is not at all. Since this is a no spoiler thread, I'll say no more on the subject.

I think it's more complex than that. I just rewatched that scene, and it seemed to me like she is genuinely conflicted. On the one hand, her face when Tyrion says Bran may live makes it clear that she had hoped that Bran would die. On the other hand, when she actually sees Catelyn, she seems to genuinely sympathize with her, recollecting her own grief at the loss of her son. So, while I don't think she's being fully honest when she says she will pray for Bran's recovery, I think she is truly sorry about what has happened, and a part of her does hope that there is some way that Bran could recover, while also forgetting what he saw. Remember, she never actually told Jaime to throw Bran out of the window in the first episode.

[Jerol]

I think it was what Xenophon saw. There was genuine conflict there. But by the end of the episode my wife, who has never read the books, said "please tell me that 'C-word' gets it." And she almost never uses that word.

[Lord Godric]

I think it's more complex than that. I just rewatched that scene, and it seemed to me like she is genuinely conflicted. On the one hand, her face when Tyrion says Bran may live makes it clear that she had hoped that Bran would die. On the other hand, when she actually sees Catelyn, she seems to genuinely sympathize with her, recollecting her own grief at the loss of her son. So, while I don't think she's being fully honest when she says she will pray for Bran's recovery, I think she is truly sorry about what has happened, and a part of her does hope that there is some way that Bran could recover, while also forgetting what he saw. Remember, she never actually told Jaime to throw Bran out of the window in the first episode.

When I first watched the episode, I agreed with your analysis of the scene. But I do not any longer. I can not fathom that Cersei actually had a child die of fever, if so it does not line up with canon in the books whatsoever. Therefore Cersei had to be making the entire story up. Knowing what we know from the books, combined with Cersei's reaction to Tyrion like you mentioned, I think everything we saw in that scene was an act, right down to her last line. Cersei said she would pray to the Mother for Bran and hope she listened this time, but (since this is a no spoiler thread) it doesn't align with what we know from the books.

ETA: I do think she believes Jaime's actions to be rash and probably unwarranted, but since it happened, Bran might as well just die. Save the Lannisters the trouble.

[Morrigan]

A video interview with the creators claim that she really was distraught at losing her child. Which is of course BS.

Her loathing of Robert is deep and ingrained. If they change it so that she did carry one of Robert's to term but poisoned him, I'm cool with that since it's in-character, but the video interview didn't indicate that... *shakes head*

[Xenophon]

When I first watched the episode, I agreed with your analysis of the scene. But I do not any longer. I can not fathom that Cersei actually had a child die of fever, if so it does not line up with canon in the books whatsoever.

Hmm, I'm more inclined to think that they've substantially changed Cersei from the books to make her a more sympathetic character. But as you say, it's impossible to discuss in this thread. Let's take it over to the main discussion thread.

[fionwe1987]

Her loathing of Robert is deep and ingrained. If they change it so that she did carry one of Robert's to term but poisoned him, I'm cool with that since it's in-character, but the video interview didn't indicate that... *shakes head*

Agreed. Though, the Cersei we know is capable of poisoning her child, being sad about it, and blaming Robert for it.

[Theano]

That scene made me bawl. And I knew she was lying through her teeth the whole time, and it still made me bawl. Cersei is a consummate actress and liar and every evil thing under the sun, and I adore her. (And want to see her die screaming.)

[Ferrum Aeternum]

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8708/csiwinterfell.jpg

I guess there was... Something in the hair... YEEEEEEAAAAH

:lol:

[Xenophon]

Spoilers, peeps, spoilers.

[Guest Raids]

I think she was sincere about the story. But not about wanting Bran to live.

[Shrub Knight]

I think Cersei was sincere about the grief of losing her son, even if she might have had something to do with his death (speculation). I think she sincerely sympathized with Catelyn. I also think she sincerely hoped Bran would stop breathing and was calculating her options since he didn't expire immediately after his fall.

[starki]

Cersei probably wouldn't know sincerity if it hit her right between the eyes...but yes, I believed she was geniune about that story.

Edited by Xray to remove a spoiler