[BOOK/TV SPOILERS] Celebrating the little touches

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I'm surprised more people don't watch this show with closed caption/subtitles. They definitely help with those accents!

[Huan]

I'm surprised more people don't watch this show with closed caption/subtitles. They definitely help with those accents!

I usually watch the first time without closed captioning because they're distracting and for some reason on my TV the subtitles are too far ahead of the picture, so you see what characters are going to say before hand. Subsequent times through I turn on the closed captioning, and I find that I've usually misheard or missed quite a bit.

[Thefalconemperor]

Arya's looks when Sansa tells her to shut up about the Imp.

Robert's face when he places the feather on Lyanna's statue hand and his hatred for the Targs.

Tyrion's expressions when Jon reminds him his brother killed Aerys.

Dany's furious blinking when Doreah tells her about that femme fatale in their lessons.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I usually watch the first time without closed captioning because they're distracting and for some reason on my TV the subtitles are too far ahead of the picture, so you see what characters are going to say before hand. Subsequent times through I turn on the closed captioning, and I find that I've usually misheard or missed quite a bit.

That's really strange that they seem out on sync of your TV. I can definitely see how that'd be distracting.

[LadyT]

I'd have to disagree with the consensus here that Sophie Turner is doing a good job. There are aspects of Sansa's character that sometimes appear to make her likeable in the books but we've seen none of that from Turner thus far. Also, her delivery is consistently awful, especially when compared with Maisie (which in an unavoidable comparison).

In all fairness to Turner, she hasn't been given a sympathetic moment to work with and my biggest problem with the show so far. The Sansa of the books is not a favorite of the fans,I understand. But where is the Sansa of the lemon cakes, who dreams of knights and never forgets her courtesies, even when frightened? This one tells her septa to shut up. Even her scene with Cat about Joff liking her at Winterfell was more spoiled brat than naive, dreamy innocent, which is how I read Sansa. At the tourney, she is pouting, not a breathless girl watching her beloved knights. And she is frightened In the book when she realizes that she might lose Lady, pleading and crying, not snapping that "Lady is good!" although she says those words. I do like Sansa in the books and sympathize with the horrible disillusionment she has to undergo, but I just don't like this girl in the show. Had I not read the books, I would feel nothing but dislike. and I believe in her story arc that that naivety was important.

Turner is playing what is written, although my verdict is still withheld on her actual performance. Maisie Williams, on the other hand, gets to play the Arya that was created. Lucky girl! I believe I read somewhere that Turner was concerned that no one watching would like Sansa.

This is my first post, so I hope I didn't go too much off the thread.

[Gazz22]

I really liked the scene when Robert, Jaime and Selmy are talking about their first kills. Especially the end of the chat when things get a bit serious.

"What a stupid boy," followed by "and there's always the shit. You don't hear about that in the songs."

A well-acted scene.

[The King of Ashes]

I really liked the scene when Robert, Jaime and Selmy are talking about their first kills. Especially the end of the chat when things get a bit serious.

"What a stupid boy," followed by "and there's always the shit. You don't hear about that in the songs."

A well-acted scene.

Indeed! In fact it is actually my favourite scene so far and was the moment I became 100% sold on Mark Addy's Robert. I was even impressed by Coster-Waldau in this scene despite being generally disappointed by his take on Jaime. Almost perfectly written and acted scene, I hope we see more like it.

[The King of Ashes]

In all fairness to Turner, she hasn't been given a sympathetic moment to work with and my biggest problem with the show so far. The Sansa of the books is not a favorite of the fans,I understand. But where is the Sansa of the lemon cakes, who dreams of knights and never forgets her courtesies, even when frightened? This one tells her septa to shut up. Even her scene with Cat about Joff liking her at Winterfell was more spoiled brat than naive, dreamy innocent, which is how I read Sansa. At the tourney, she is pouting, not a breathless girl watching her beloved knights. And she is frightened In the book when she realizes that she might lose Lady, pleading and crying, not snapping that "Lady is good!" although she says those words. I do like Sansa in the books and sympathize with the horrible disillusionment she has to undergo, but I just don't like this girl in the show. Had I not read the books, I would feel nothing but dislike. and I believe in her story arc that that naivety was important.

Turner is playing what is written, although my verdict is still withheld on her actual performance. Maisie Williams, on the other hand, gets to play the Arya that was created. Lucky girl! I believe I read somewhere that Turner was concerned that no one watching would like Sansa.

This is my first post, so I hope I didn't go too much off the thread.

You have a point, the material poor Turner has been given is pretty unfair. I can't imagine it's easy making Sansa from the book likeable never mind the one given to her in the script.

However, I only see the script as 50% of the problem. I do believe Turner is playing Sansa as petulant and bratty because it's the easiest route to take regarding her character. A better actress could bring out the naive, insecure, and also warm sides of the character with the same material by delivering the lines differently and also with body language. Turner can't act well with her facial expressions or body so it all rests on the way she coveys speech... Which is sub-par at best.

I don't usually like re-casting between series due serious continuity problems but I'd genuinely love it if they recast Sansa before season 2.

[Hyper]

The King of Ashes,

It's really surprising how people can read an actor/actress performance so different. I think Sophie has been great, just as good as Maisie. If anything the Sansa character is a more difficult one to approach than the more typical tomboy hero of Arya.

Making Sansa likable is difficult, because she isn't very likable in the book - that's for sure. (at least book 1) Part of the characterization change is due to her now being a teenager (due to being aged up), and that changes the character slightly. I think they are doing a very good job of portraying a teenage girl who is in the process of having her dreams falling apart, and desperately wanting to be liked by everyone.

I liked the Sansa/Septa scene in the latest episode, it shows quite a bit of how much she now know is expected of her, in addition to a being useful infodump.

[lifefullofwords]

It's really surprising how people can read an actor/actress performance so different. I think Sophie has been great, just as good as Maisie. If anything the Sansa character is a more difficult one to approach than the more typical tomboy hero of Arya.

Making Sansa likable is difficult, because she isn't very likable in the book - that's for sure. (at least book 1) Part of the characterization change is due to her now being a teenager (due to being aged up), and that changes the character slightly. I think they are doing a very good job of portraying a teenage girl who is in the process of having her dreams falling apart, and desperately wanting to be liked by everyone.

I liked the Sansa/Septa scene in the latest episode, it shows quite a bit of how much she now know is expected of her, in addition to a being useful infodump.

Put me in the camp that is loving Sophie Turner's performance. I also like the changes the show has made to Sansa. In the books I find her to be an almost disturbingly cold character up until her father is killed. The scene that exemplifies that to me is her reaction the gruesome death of Ser Hugh in the books is almost enjoyment. In contrast, in the show she reacts with horror which seems to me to be a much more believable reaction for a sheltered teenage (pre-teen in the books, actually) girl to have.

And aging Sansa has allows the show to depict her as a troubled teenager which I think is very effective. Sure, she is petulant and bratty sometimes and fights with her father but that just means she's acting her age in my opinion. And although she showed quite a bit of maturity in that scene with Septa Mordane when she expressed her anxiety about producing heirs after she marries Joffrey. It really tore at my heart to see her struggling to carry such a large burden without any effective adult guidance since Ned is, just as in the books, very ineffectual at parenting Sansa (which obviously has dire consequences eventually).

Anyway, I don't think she's the most sympathetic character in the books, especially in the first novel so I'm not sure she should be entirely sympathetic on the show either. I expect she will continue to be a controversial character.

[Tywin's bastard]

I too think Sophie is doing just as good of a job as Maisie and I agree with previous posters that she's acting the age well as you often have to analyze why teenagers act like they do in order to sympathize with them since they often lash out instead of confide, especially with parental figures as they are struggling to become their own persons. I also feel that she's been varied in her acting as far as it could go with these scenes.

[Ser Kevan Raley]

I don't see any faults in Sophie Turner's acting either. In some ways I feel she brings more sympathy towards Sansa in this, the first, season, than the Sansa of book one.

No slight to Maisie Williams, who's terrific as Arya, but I think it must be easier to portray such a well-liked tomboyish character as Arya than it is to portray someone like Sansa. And Sophie does a good job at that.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

You have a point, the material poor Turner has been given is pretty unfair. I can't imagine it's easy making Sansa from the book likeable never mind the one given to her in the script.

However, I only see the script as 50% of the problem. I do believe Turner is playing Sansa as petulant and bratty because it's the easiest route to take regarding her character. A better actress could bring out the naive, insecure, and also warm sides of the character with the same material by delivering the lines differently and also with body language. Turner can't act well with her facial expressions or body so it all rests on the way she coveys speech... Which is sub-par at best.

I don't usually like re-casting between series due serious continuity problems but I'd genuinely love it if they recast Sansa before season 2.

Wow, I don't think I could disagree more. I do find it fascinating how people can watch the same performance and come away with such opposite opinions. I don't think she's playing Sansa as petulant and bratty because it's the easiest way; she's playing her that way because that's how she's written, and she's probably be instructed to play her in that fashion as well. If an actor is performing in a way contrary to what the writers/directors/producers had in mind, they're usually instructed to change it, no?

My favorite Sansa scene so far is when she learns that Lady is to be killed. Her anguish really made me feel for her. I also thought she did a fine job in the scene with the Septa showing how worried she was about the future but at the same time reminding us how young, naive and spoiled she is by immaturely blaming her father and losing her temper with the Septa.

I am really looking forward to the scene at the end of the season when Joffrey takes her to see her father's severed head. Apparently her acting when she read for that scene in her audition impressed them enough to hire her, so I bet she's going to knock that one out of the park. Since on the TV show we can't see Sansa's thoughts, I'm also hoping they change that scene slightly from the book and show her losing her temper and try push Joff or something. Of course she won't be able to hurt him, but it'd be nice way to show her anguish and how she has no more delusions about Joffrey.

[LadyT]

You have a point, the material poor Turner has been given is pretty unfair. I can't imagine it's easy making Sansa from the book likeable never mind the one given to her in the script.

However, I only see the script as 50% of the problem. I do believe Turner is playing Sansa as petulant and bratty because it's the easiest route to take regarding her character. A better actress could bring out the naive, insecure, and also warm sides of the character with the same material by delivering the lines differently and also with body language. Turner can't act well with her facial expressions or body so it all rests on the way she coveys speech... Which is sub-par at best.

As I said, I am holding back on my verdict of her acting, though I am leaning toward the negative. I do agree that a skilled actress could do a more nuanced job with the role as written. But the directors have a say in this as well. I think she could have handled it had the director of the tourney said, "Smile! You have wanted to be at one of these things all of your life!" Instead, the pout. If they have all agreed on e mean spoiled Sansa take, she is doing what she is told. And that seems to be the direction here. They have gone out of their way to show that Ned tries to be a good and thoughtful father, and yet I fear they will have her turn on him because she won't forgive him for Lady. This is not her motivation in the novels. Again, it is a different Sansa.

Recasting the character wouldn't help me, though I can see your point of view. I wish they could rethink her character. I keep hoping they will salvage something in the scenes she has ahead. And I hope she is up to it if they do.

[LadyT]

Wow, I don't think I could disagree more. I do find it fascinating how people can watch the same performance and come away with such opposite opinions. I don't think she's playing Sansa as petulant and bratty because it's the easiest way; she's playing her that way because that's how she's written, and she's probably be instructed to play her in that fashion as well. If an actor is performing in a way contrary to what the writers/directors/producers had in mind, they're usually instructed to change it, n

My favorite Sansa scene so far is when she learns that Lady is to be killed. Her anguish really made me feel for her.

I agree completely about the directing. Every single scene she has been in could have been done differently. This girl is a new actress. I think she would do as she is told.

But I don't agree about the Lady scene. She is simply far too angry and hard in her words. it didn't move me. I just can't imagine book Sansa talking that way to them at this point. Pleading, yes. But she was darned near as strong as her mama in that scene...too soon.

Also, why blame her father and forgive the Lannisters? If she already thinks that Joff doesn't like her, why desire to stay with them?

Why trash a lifetime of love with Ned to be with creepy people about whom she has already seen something of the truth? Doesn't 't make sense to me. But I already feel for her when things turn out the way they do

[LadyT]

I really liked the scene when Robert, Jaime and Selmy are talking about their first kills. Especially the end of the chat when things get a bit serious.

"What a stupid boy," followed by "and there's always the shit. You don't hear about that in the songs."

A well-acted scene.

One of my real favorites, too. Addy was just terrific, as were the others.

A couple of other faces:

Arya jumping into Jon's arms. Really touching

"I'd rather be dead". Perfect.

Almost everything with Jaime. The Lannister Boys are my two favorite characters and I am enjoying both performances, although I do agree that Jaime isn't quite the Jaime of the books. But I think the character is so nuanced and interesting that it makes up for what is lacking at this point. We can see his badass charm later. I hope.

Jon's many moments of realizing that the Wall isn't quite what he 'd hoped. Something in his face...

Lloyd's Viserys...exactly as I pictured him. I never dreamed I could enjoy the character at all, much less so much.

Oh heck, except for what they have done with Sansa, I am enjoying the whole thing!

[Asha—Not Yara!]

Also, why blame her father and forgive the Lannisters? If she already thinks that Joff doesn't like her, why desire to stay with them?

Why trash a lifetime of love with Ned to be with creepy people about whom she has already seen something of the truth? Doesn't 't make sense to me. But I already feel for her when things turn out the way they do

My interpretation was she always thought her father would be able to protect her and their family and by killing her beloved pet, that naive point of view was shattered, and so she takes her anger out on him. Sansa is still expected to marry Joffrey and so she has a BIG motivation to forgive the Lannisters and try to make nice with them and to want to please them. We see this in the scene with her septa in the throne room when she worries about what might happen if she is not able to provide a male heir.

It's not at all uncommon for young people, especially teenagers, to take their parents' love for granted. Her anger toward her father seemed very realistic to me.

As for you not liking her performance when she learns Lady is going to have to die, I think that's just something we'll need to agree to disagree on. I thought she did a great job showing both anger and grief at what was about to happen. I didn't think she came on too strong at all.

[The King of Ashes]

Yeah I think I am a little conflicted on whether it's D&D's Sansa I don't like or Sophie's acting. As I have said before though, she's doing a very difficult job so I'll try not to be too hard on her until I've seen more. Really not sold so far though

[Greylander]

My favorite little moment so far (i've mentioned in other posts)

Tyrion (sarcastically) to Theon:

There's nothing prettier than watching sailors burn alive.

He has no idea...

[The King of Ashes]

Haha I didn't even notice the foreshadowing in that scene!