Jump to content

{BOOK & TV SPOILERS] Episode 3 - What Was Left Out, And What Was Added


The_Halfhand

Recommended Posts

I miss Mormont's crow - I keep looking for him and Ghost more than I would have expected.

The cut of the 3-Eyed Crow bothers me too - that's a setup for the 'warg' revelation much later.

I think Mormont's crow would almost have to be entirely CGI. Maybe not, I'm not sure how easily trainable they'd be (or if the training would be worth the effort/expense).

Also not sure how to portray the (fluently) speaking 3-Eyed Crow without seeming really hokey. Westeros is not Narnia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Mormont's crow would almost have to be entirely CGI. Maybe not, I'm not sure how easily trainable they'd be (or if the training would be worth the effort/expense).

Also not sure how to portray the (fluently) speaking 3-Eyed Crow without seeming really hokey. Westeros is not Narnia.

They did have some trained birds on set, so we'll probably see it at some point.

I don't think the speaking will be an issue. It's not like he was doing complete sentences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Mormont's crow would almost have to be entirely CGI. Maybe not, I'm not sure how easily trainable they'd be (or if the training would be worth the effort/expense).

Also not sure how to portray the (fluently) speaking 3-Eyed Crow without seeming really hokey. Westeros is not Narnia.

Actually, from what I understand crows are pretty trainable. I really think they'll have more trouble with the direwolves, at least while they're still puppies. That's why there's been so little of them so far.

And I totally agree about the Three Eyed Crow being potentially cheesy. Those scenes going to be very difficult to adapt to the screen, especially given the kind of TV show they want to be. So we'll see how it goes, maybe there will be a scene later this season or next season with the Thee Eyed Crow. If they can't do it well they should honestly just cut the dreams and have Bran tell the necessary information to another character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mormont's bird wasn't doing complete sentences, but I thought the 3-Eyed Crow did.

You are correct. I've already written off getting a first person look at the three eyed crow (although they may still flash back to it.)

I think Mormont's crow is the more likely candidate for screen time at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are correct. I've already written off getting a first person look at the three eyed crow (although they may still flash back to it.)

I think Mormont's crow is the more likely candidate for screen time at this point.

We have seen images of a three eyed crow so it's certainly possible that it makes an appearance. There's no rush to bring it into the series though since it's just build up to something that won't really start developing until the middle of the next season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Mormont's crow would almost have to be entirely CGI. Maybe not, I'm not sure how easily trainable they'd be (or if the training would be worth the effort/expense).

Also not sure how to portray the (fluently) speaking 3-Eyed Crow without seeming really hokey. Westeros is not Narnia.

Crows are super smart but I do not know how trainable they are. Birds seem to always just do what they want compared to like dogs and stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have seen images of a three eyed crow so it's certainly possible that it makes an appearance. There's no rush to bring it into the series though since it's just build up to something that won't really start developing until the middle of the next season.

We've seen images? I missed that.

But if they're going to introduce it at all, it ought to be soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Boy, so many complaints about it not being the exact same. I have only two complaints, and only one of which I think was a real error.

1. Changed: Ned's arrival at king's Landing

In the book, when Ned is immediately summoned to the small council, he refuses because he's just had a long journey, but quickly decides not to shun the other council members upon his arrival. In the show, he goes immidiately without bickering. In the book, he chooses to change his clothes quickly to look presentable. In the show, when the steward recommends he make himself look presentable, Ned gives him the evil eye. What's up with that?

The book version is too complicated to show on film. While the nuances are great for a book in revealing Ned's character it wouldn't do for TV. They simplified it in a way that emphasizes Ned's character as dutiful and provincial. He's not into dressing up, and he doesn't put off unpleasant duties. This is an accurate portrayal of Ned's character, so I see no reason to be upset over such a trivial change that works much better on TV then the original would.

2. Added: Jamie meets Ned in the Throne Room

In the book, Ned goes straight to the room of the Small Council where we're first introduced to Littlefinger, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycel. In the show, he first goes to the throne room where Jamie Lannister is waiting for him.

3. Changed: "The King Eats, And The Hand Takes The Shit..."

In the book, there is a saying "What the King dreams, the Hand Builds," but Robert communicates the more common phrase "The King eats, and the hand takes the shit" to Ned. But in the show, it has been changed to the less poetic "The King Shits, and the Hand wipes." Yet another odd change of dialogue for no apparent reason.

4. Added: Jamie's account of the death's of Ned's brother and father.

I believe this was internal monologue from Storm of Swords with Jamie remembering how ned's brother and father were killed by King Aerys, but they fit it into the scene with Ned and Jamie.

We needed a backstory that still had not been filled out. Now we know that Jaime killed the Mad King, and now we know why Ned rebelled against the former King even though he's all Mr. Duty. Also, it helps us understand Jaime a bit better, and earns him some fans for at least being the one to kill the Mad King.

5. Changed: No Barriston Selmy

The first meeting with the Small Council is largely unchanged from the book, but even though we meet Renly, we have yet to meet Ser Barriston Selmy, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

The scene introduced Varys, Littlefinger, and Renly. Way too many characters already, no point in mentioning or showing the head of the Kingsguard when he can be shown later. (and Selmy has the excuse of guarding the King to explain his absence).

6. Added: Cercei tending Joffrey's wounds

Seeing Cercei attend Joffrey's wounds, and Joffrey showing his insecurities, and unwillingness to marry Sansa. Quite a different Joffrey from the one in the books. Also, Cercei suggesting Joffrey fuck whores is entirely out of character for her. And Cercei's advice to Joffrey about his conquest of the North was far too shrewd for her.

It wasn't a bad scene. Cersei isn't a complete moron you know. She does have a certain level of cunning. Enough to know that Joffrey's plan was idiocy. Notice that her proposed replacement solution has it's own kind of idiocy: Marry Sansa and show kindness to her sometimes, but still consider her an enemy. That's classic Cersei. I agree the painted whores comment was a bit out of character from how I understood her, but I suppose it might coincide with Cersei's general impression of how men behave, and maybe Cersei wasn't just giving straight advice but was also manipulating Joffrey. That actually would fit with Cersei's character I think, and be kind of sad. I think I like the direction they are taking this Cersei. She's a little different from the books but not too much different.

7. Changed: Sansa and Arya eating

In the book, this scene happens much later after the arrival in King's Landing and definitely after Ned meets with Catelyn. In the book, its a dinner scene in the Small Hall, and the Hand's Tourney is discussed. In the book, after Ned leaves, Arya runs away angry from Septa Mordane and runs to her room, where Ned later finds her and talks to her. In the show, Ned sends her to her room.

8. Added: Ned and Arya's talk of Joffrey

This quick exchange about Joffrey being a liar was not in the book.

Unimportant changes that help improve the flow on screen and communicate the same information in less time.

9. Changed: Ned's talk of survival in the winter

No talk of the lone wolf dying while the pack survives. Kind-of important symbolism completely left out of the show.

Huh, Ned may not have used the symbolism, but he did explicitly teach this to Arya. Strange that you missed the biggest change, and I think the real mistake this episode.

No mention of Lyanna. I think that would have been a big improvement for little cost. Add this dialogue:

Ned: wistfully "You remind me of my sister."

Arya: surprised "Aunt Lyanna was beautiful."

Ned: sadly "She was; beautiful and wild, and dead before her time."

Slip it in right before Ned leaves and tells Arya that if she has a sword she should know how to use it. It would have added to the audiences knowledge about Ned's sister, that she was like Arya. It would hint that one of the reasons Ned is letting Arya learn sword work is because he fears what happened to his sister could happen to her. It would have made the ending scene that must stronger. (Shades of "Promise me Ned").

10. Left Out: Bran's dream of the three-eyed crow.

Old Nan's reference to the crow is kinda odd since there was no set up of the three-eyed crow.

11. Changed: Bran's scene with Old Nan

No mention of "Brandon the Builder" in this scene. And Rob does not come to him in the book, instead its Maester Luwin and Hodor, who take him down to the Hall to sit with Rob, who is meeting with Tyrion Lannister on his way back from the Wall. Obviously, this scene was moved up in the timeline of the TV show, and Bran sits and talks to Rob and talks about losing the use of his legs.

It would have been hard to do the dream. It's okay to leave it out at this point. We don't need to know that stuff until later. The flow works better as this is a way to keep Bran and Rob in this episode instead of disappearing. Also, I loved the Duncan the Tall reference.

12. Changed: Catelyn's arrival in King's Landing

In the book, she arrives by sea and gets to King's Landing before Ned.

13. Changed: Catelyn's meeting with Littlefinger

In the book, it was the Tyroshi merchant Moreo who ratted out Catelyn's arrival to Littlefinger. In the book, she's staying in an Inn and is summoned by men of the City Watch while Ser Roderick is away, and taken to Littlefinger's Brothel.

Complications that are interesting world building in the book are too much for the TV. Keep it simple. They wasted time on naked breasts though that should have been spent comparing Arya to Lyanna.

14. Added: Tyrion's scene with Commander Mormont at the Wall

In the book Tyrion never witnessed Ser Allister's training of the boys with Mormont, and Mormont never inexplicably gave Tyrion the message from Winterfell about Bran's revival.

15. Changed: Jon's conversation with Donal Noye

In the book, the one-armed smith of the Night's Watch, Donel Noye, is the man who points out Jon's "bullying" of the recruits. In the show, they gave these lines to Tyrion. Also, in the book, it's Grenn's wrist Jon injured, not his nose, and the others were not present during Jon's lecture.

Too many characters. Noyle's lines were best given to Tyrion for the condensed TV version. They can introduce Noyle later.

16: Added: Cercei and Jamie arguing about Bran

Yet another scene told in flashback in a Storm of Swords moved up to the TV show.

Good addition. It's the main plot point people want to know about at this point. Let them see the creepy love affair of the Lannister Twins.

17: Added: Robert talking with Ser Barriston Selmy

Robert recounts killing a Tarly boy as his first kill in battle to Ser Barristan. We also get to meet Lancel in this scene, and get the story of Jamie fighting the Kingswood Brotherhood, yet another bit of info from a Storm of Swords moved up to game of Thrones. This scene was not in the book, and only serves to make Robert seem like a true ass hole.

This was probably the best addition of the whole show so far. Robert didn't come across as an asshole to me. More of an earthy, earnest warrior who hates being King and prefers thinking about the glory days- but not in the hazy "everything was good in the old days" way, but a more realistic and gritty memory. It painted Robert's character well.

It also introduced briefly Ser Barristan and gave us an idea of his character. It let us know that the Lannister's are an ambitious family that have surrounded the King, and introduced Lancel and his main role in the story. It also increased our understanding of Jaime's arrogance mixed with a certain world weariness. And again labeled him the Kingslayer (backstabber), showing that that is what he is most famous for.

18. Changed: The Dothraki Sea

In the book, Danny rides off alone on her horse into the Dothraki sea after commanding the khalasar to halt and wait for her. In the TV show she dismounts and wanders off for no apparent reason. Also, in the book, she's the one who commands Viserys to walk back to camp without a horse... something that has much more meaning in the book than it did in the show having Jhogo make that decision. Also, in the book it was made clear Viserys was enraged after Mormont told him to stay on the ridge. In the TV show, it seemed a little odd that Viserys would fly off the handle without recieving a direct command.

Unimportant changes that helped compress the scene for TV. I'd prefer more time here, but truthfully more time has to be spent setting the scene in King's Landing.

19. Changed: Jon's final meeting with Benjen Stark.

In the book, the meeting happened as Benjen was riding out for his ranging, not at the top of the Wall.

Unimportant. At this point you are nitpicking for no reason. Also, the conversation that they had did happen on the Wall. The last meeting was a paragraph in the book, there was no reason not to remove it.

20. Changed: Tyrion's meeting in the feast hall of Castle Black

We finally get a proper introduction to Yoren, who seems much less sour than he was in the books. And for some reason, Benjen Stark is given all of Allister Thorne's hostility towards Tyrion.

This was a good change. We get to know Yoren. Benjen being hostile plays up the Stark vs Lannister theme which is good, and we didn't have the time to introduce Allister Thorne enough to care who he was or why he was fighting with Tyrion. Thorne isn't much of a character until later books anyway.

21. Changed: The revelation of Danny's Pregnancy

slight change from the books. Danny is practicing her dothraki when Jhiqui tells her she's pregnant. In the book, Danny already knows. In the show, it takes Danny by surprise.

22. Added: Mormont's scene with Jhogo, discussing weapons and armor

This was not in the books. And in the books, Jorah never left the khalasar to ride to Quohor after discovering danny was pregnant.

A change made so that internal monologue could be come external dialogue. Also, laying the ground work for Jorah's reveal later.

23. Removed: Jon offering his help to Grenn and embarassing Thorne

Though we see Jon in the yard helping Grenn and Pyp, we don't see the transformation he goes through in the books heading into the feast hall to offer his help, and making fun of Ser Allister.

24. Changed: Tyrion's talk with Mormont and Maester Aemon

Many of Mormont's lines were given to Maester Aemon, who comes off more dour and crabby than he does in the books. In the books, the conversation he has with Mormont about the state of the Night's Watch is done alone, at night by a fire. Here, its done with both Mormont and Maester Aemon during the day.

Unfortunate reductions in the story required by time constraints

25. Added: Danny and Drogo in bed

The scene where she tells Drogo her child will be a boy was not in the book.

A good addition. Since we didn't get to see a good start to their relationship we needed evidence that Danny is now happy with her marriage.

26. Added: Tyrion pissing off the top of the wall

In the book, Tyrion never actually pissed off the edge of the world. However, they seemed to feel the need to show that in the TV series. Also, Jon did not ask Tyrion to help Bran, as he did in the book. And they completely left out the whole "friendship" affirmation that preceded the final handshake between Jon and Tyrion.

I agree with you on this one. I wish they had left in the request to help Bran, and the line "I know what it is to love a brother." However, Jon and Tyrion have already been established as friends in the minds of most viewers, so it's not really damaging.

27. Changed: Ned watching Arya with Syrio Forell

In the books, Ned was never present at any of Arya's trainings. Also, Syrio Forell was bald in the book.

Ned being present was a good change. The ending made us feel Ned's concern and care.

Overall, I thought the pace of this episode was much to fast, and the writers are yet again making strange changes to iconic lines and scenes. The best scene in my opinion was Arya and Syrio, since it was the most faithful to the books and worked the best in the show. Honestly, many of these changes are just unnecessary. Makes me wonder why the producers are doing these changes.

Also: NO GHOST AGAIN!!!! What is up with that? And come to think of it, no sight of Mormont's crow either. :-(

I think you are being overly critical and unwilling to accept that changes must be made for this to work as a TV show. I agree there were some changes made that didn't need to be, but overall it's a pretty good adaption. If it feels like it is moving fast, that's because it is. 12 hours would have been better then 10, but 10 is what we got, so 10 is what the writers have to deal with, and that means moving fast.

Also, I agree I would have liked to have seen Ghost, if only in the background during the training scenes.

Looking forward to next episode I'd like to say there is an addition I think they ought to have but doubt they will:

I think during the tourney Ned should sit next to Robert, and move Ned's comment about the knight's of summer there.

Something like:

Ned: "They're so young"

Robert: "Not near as young as we were"

Ned: "It reminds me of the tourney at Harrenhal"

Robert: "The one were Rhaegor crowned your sister the queen of love beauty." angry "He had no right! His own wife sitting there. Wooing another man's betrothed." cold anger "That's when it all began."

Ned: Pausing before changing the subject and gesturing at the field. "The knights of summer. I wonder what grief they will know when winter comes for them."

Cut away to Sansa with Joffrey.

Then at the end of the tourney have The Hound crown Sansa "Queen of love and beauty" (perhaps with instruction by Joffrey? Just a nod of the head toward Sansa?) Have Sansa hoisted over the crowd chanting "Queen Sansa!" while Cersei looks on.

This would accomplish several things

1: It reveals more about Ned's sister, Rhaegor's "rape" of her and Robert's motivation.

2: It connects back to Cersei's instruction to Joffrey to preform an act of kindness toward Sansa

3: It would compare Sansa to Lyanna (which would have been even better if they had kept the Arya-Lyanna comparison this episode), and again play on Ned's emotions and concern for his daughters

4: It would be an important moment establishing The Hound as a more ambiguous figure

5: It would help set up the one sided romantic tension between Sansa and The Hound that comes up later.

6: It would help set up Cersei's jealousy of the younger more beautiful queen.

7: It would establish this tradition of the tourney winner as naming a woman "queen of love and beauty" in the viewers mind more solidly then just a flashback or hearing about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quoted text

I agree with pretty much everything you have said, though I would have liked Dany to stand up for herself a little more, and am still annoyed that Jaime seems to be trying to explain himself to Ned - I still think a flashback to the original meeting between the two set off by Ned seeing the iron throne would have worked better. I don't mind any number of changes as long as they are consistent with characters which all the others are.

And I agree, given that Rhaegar seems (for a whole number of reasons, not just the R+L one) to be integral to the story in future books, I would like to see him mentioned soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read that whole list of changes, and didn't care about a single one of them except for Daenarys not telling Viserys to walk. That's an extremely important character development for her. All the others are just nit-picky stuff in my opinion. I just finished rereading AGOT too, and honestly wouldn't have even noticed many of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's an extremely important character development for her.

It is important, but if she whips him in the face with the belt next episode then it will be fine. I don't know why people are so upset about this part missing when she has another moment so early in the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is important, but if she whips him in the face with the belt next episode then it will be fine. I don't know why people are so upset about this part missing when she has another moment so early in the season.

I agree. The story is moving along very quickly due to the short amount of time and it's better to portion out someone's arc over several episodes where it's possible. She has already come a long way but to really stand up to her brother, who's shadow she has been in her entire life, is the final test and it will have more effect if put more on it's own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

27. Changed: Ned watching Arya with Syrio Forell

In the books, Ned was never present at any of Arya's trainings. Also, Syrio Forell was bald in the book.

I've just rewatched episode three again and I thought I'd put it here considering it was talking about adding or changing something that wasn't in the books.

It's in regards to Ned watching arya fight. His looking at her first with happiness then what appeared to be sadness and concern felt that he was looking back at Lyanna. I only just realised that after re-watching.

The many points about talking of Lyanna and Rhaegar would have made this perfect and understandable to even non-readers and opened up this storyline for season 2 and beyond.

Just my two cent... and first post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...