[No Spoilers] Joffrey's Royal Army

[Darzin]

I always got the impression that the Free Cities fielded Italian-style forces, in the sense that while they may have an urban militia (like the Goldcloaks), they rely largely on mercenaries for fighting wars. Presumably each city controls its immediate surrounding, necessary for farming and incidentally the source of a small feudal levy. Also I can see the city leaders bribing Dothraki khals to attack their rivals.

In GoT Catelyn mentions that they have a "standing army" unlike Westros but it is mentioned by name as a standing proffessional force, I think there is also a Cersie quote, (I don't have my books or I would find it), about how the Goldcooaks are just watchmen not a true army like the free cities have, so while small the Free cities do have a true army, rather than just drafted watchmen.

[Knight Of The North]

I think a very good point to make is that this would be a revolutionary idea that is quite brilliant in it's simplicity...

Outside of a political unstable nation.

A point that people have made is that a professional standing army has mostly politically foreign uses; invading countries, intimidating foes, etc. If the Dothraki invaded (HYPOTHETICALLY) the current system of gathering 'banners' would have a united army up in about three weeks, by which time a well-drilled Khalasar (I'm assuming they have the same mobility of a Mongol Tuman, with less organisation) would have overrun the region they landed in. Against a standing army, they'd be trapped in a small area of ground, maybe mountains or a large port, where they couldn't bring their horsemen to bear. Observe The Battle of Acre, where dismounted light Muslim Horsemen faced heavy Christian Knights; in a city fight, the big chap with sixty pounds of steel armour and a hatchet?:

He wins.

I digress, but you get the point; standing army > retainer army, in response time, in troop quality, in everything that means a damn in war. Just look at any battle between a professional army and a non-professional army on any terms. Trained soldiers ARE BETTER.

But Westeros DOES NOT HAVE A SENSE OF NATIONAL IDENTITY! Forgive me if someone has said this, and Cersei touches on it in episode 3, but people consider themselves to be from Dorne, or from the North, not from Westeros. It's like today, in Europe; you consider yourself to be French, or German, not European. Hell, in England, national identity only developed during the Colonial Era. In Westeros, to serve in the King's Standing Army would mean potentially killing your countrymen, and you would not think you were fighting for Westeros, but for the King. And Joffrey isn't exactly a likeable chap.

If Westeros forged a national identity, instead of a regional one, than a standing armny wouldn't be needed: it would be required. Because national identities need realising every now and then, with a big war or two.

But if they offered pay and esprit de corps, framing the King's Army as an elite fighting force? Well, there's a reason the Bluecoats held at Naseby...

[amore]

amore--no problem. :) Hey, I see the appeal in the great man theory of history too. The historians may not like it much, but as you say, it has the advantage of actually having inspired great men!

Back to the subject of Joffrey's plan:

This may be hard to discuss in a No Spoilers thread, since we don't have that much info on them in the show yet, but couldn't Joffrey get something of a standing army just by taking control of the Goldcloaks (the KL guards with the Persian-style helmets)?

They're a ready-made group of professional soldiers who aren't directly affiliated with any of the Great Houses. And, currently they seem to be skulking around behind the King and Hand's backs, taking orders from Littlefinger and Varys. Joffrey the Reformer should make them report directly to the King, perhaps merging them with the Kingsguard (the royal bodyguards in the fancy armor), and he'd have the nucleus of a standing army right there. They'd be like the Byzantine Varangian Guard--a bodyguard unit large enough to double as a field army.

Yeah I do like my historical greats and have a bit of a fondness for Adolphus in particular, perhaps a bit too much as I fear it blinds me to arguments against him :)

Yes you are right Joffrey has the nucleus of a force already which could be turned into a standing army. The goldcloaks, baratheon knights and men at arms and presumably his mothers Lannister troops as well. The Lannisters also are arguably the only faction rich enough to finance this sort of advancement so their co-operation would be crucial. As they are already a numerically strong faction the improvement in quality could see them take a big advantage on the battlefield if they went that way.

On the negative side though the goldcloaks I understand are pretty poorly trained city watchment presently so they would need to spend significant time training them up.