[BOOK SPOILERS] Television Without Pity n00bs thread

[TheEvilKing]

It accomplishes a fair bit as a scene not from the books. Is this and the Jorah/Blood rider scene the first scenes not to involve a book PoV character?

Nay milord. That would be the Cersei/Jaime scene at KL in the first ep.

Unless you mean first to not involve a character who is a POV in any of the books, in which case the scene you're talking about doesn't count either...

[GileanTheGrey]

Seems quite a few really hated the Bob/Barristan/Jaime/Lancel scene.

The things I can think of as important exposition in this scene are establishing:

1) Bob was an awesome soldier before he got fat and boozy

2) Bob is now bitter and twisted about the fact that he's fat and boozy and no longer an awesome soldier (perhaps just a tad pissed that Ned still has the soldier chops)

3) Bob hates his kids, and his wife, and the fact he's surrounded by Lannisters.

It accomplishes a fair bit as a scene not from the books. Is this and the Jorah/Blood rider scene the first scenes not to involve a book PoV character?

Perhaps the n00bs might appreciate this scene a bit more as they get further into the series?

One of them posts a better breakdown of this scene later on in their thread.

Other things we learn from this scene:

Better feel for the Kingsguard.

Jamie background: his somewhat cavalier attitude about beheading his first kill, as well as Aerys's final words (and Robert's surprised reaction to them).

Some world building with Simon Toyne and friends.

Introduction of the Tarly family shortly before we meet Sam.

[The Anti-Targ]

Nay milord. That would be the Cersei/Jaime scene at KL in the first ep.

Unless you mean first to not involve a character who is a POV in any of the books, in which case the scene you're talking about doesn't count either...

Ahhh yes of course, shoulda remembered that one. And no I was only meaning non-PoVs from aGoT.

One of them posts a better breakdown of this scene later on in their thread.

Other things we learn from this scene:

Better feel for the Kingsguard.

Jamie background: his somewhat cavalier attitude about beheading his first kill, as well as Aerys's final words (and Robert's surprised reaction to them).

Some world building with Simon Toyne and friends.

Introduction of the Tarly family shortly before we meet Sam.

Yeah, spotted that break down a bit later on. 'Twas quite a good one, and inciteful too for an alleged non-Bookwalker. Put my little list to shame.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

Not to mention the foreshadowing of Robert's death with Lancel plying him wine. A few of them picked up on the possible foreshadowing (though I do wonder if some of the more perceptive ones might be book readers pretending to be newbies. :P Hopefully no one is lame enough to do that though).

[walrus]

(though I do wonder if some of the more perceptive ones might be book readers pretending to be newbies. :P Hopefully no one is lame enough to do that though).

I've had the same thoughts. I think someone referred to Bran's assassin as "lice ridden", something that I believe was said in the books but not the screen. I've noticed a lot of little things like that that make me suspicious. If there are readers in that thread, steering the rest of them in the right directions, that is totally lame and really sucks for the people in there genuinely trying to speculate.

[TheEvilKing]

I've had the same thoughts. I think someone referred to Bran's assassin as "lice ridden", something that I believe was said in the books but not the screen. I've noticed a lot of little things like that that make me suspicious. If there are readers in that thread, steering the rest of them in the right directions, that is totally lame and really sucks for the people in there genuinely trying to speculate.

I don't get that at all. Surely it's more fun to lead them in the wrong direction?

[ptyx]

I don't get that at all. Surely it's more fun to lead them in the wrong direction?

I think it's not about fun. It's more like they might want to say later:

"Look there how smart I am. I guessed that long ago"

Anyway there is no way anyone can help much about it. It wouldn't make much sense to send private messages to mods of that forum saying: "Ban this guy, he's to good at guessing" ;)

[Xenophon]

Yeah, I'm inclined to give the people who are really good at guessing the benefit of the doubt (these guys tear shows apart and look for every possible conspiracy/twist), but, like walrus said, some of them seem to be dropping terms from the books that I don't remember hearing on the show (although I guess the HBO guide could be responsible for some things like The Seven/The Old Gods).

[SerArthurHeath]

"I think Varys really speaks crow... and not all crows are liars - crows are spys "

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3204374&st=180

They really are hitting on some long term readership fan theories (or mild variations of them) aren't they? I quote like this twist on the Varys literally uses little birds to spy theory

[TheEvilKing]

Some of my favourite quotes from today - all from the same poster:

Does Varys being a eunuch mean he's a convicted rapist who chose castration over the Wall? That does not make me like him more...

:thumbsup:

Yes! How stupid was that?! He's the Queen's brother, and she just has him arrested in a roadside inn - while her husband and daughters are living in the Queen's home! Idiot.

Correct. Even n00bs are smarter than Cat.

I can see this ending with a situation where Jon will have to kill him [sam], after having spent a lot of time and effort to help him. Or Sam will end up being responsible for the deaths of Jon's other friends.

Haha wow. It's not that gloomy, is it?

They've cotton on to Petyr the Pedo, but that was kind of obvious. There's also some discussion about who sent the Mountain to kill Ser Hugh.

[Rand]

The unintentional irony here is gold:

Unless he runs into a crazy woman on the road, with apparently less political sense and gift for strategy than her husband...

No, I don't really think lady Stark will end up killing Tyrion. But that's mostly because I think it would be a genuine waste of a good character, not because I think Cat's smart enough to realize it would be a bad idea.

[Anomandaris86]

Wow look at this one:

Jaime, thus far, has proven to be pretty astute. If he's correct that Robert taunts and humiliates him, choosing to have orgies while Jamie's on duty, it may be more than Robert forcing Jaime to witness him disrespecting his sister.

Maybe Robert behaves as he does because he not only knows about Jaime and Cersei's incest/adultery but he has always known and for his own reasons and perverse pleasure lets the two of them live in fear of his discovery.

Obviously, Robert despises Lannisters, and I don't think he's ever loved or ever even liked Cersei. She came with the job so to speak.

Of course if he knew, the question of the children's father, him or Jaime would be an issue.

Still, I like the idea that maybe, once again, the story is setting us up, even playing us in regards to Robert. Thus far, every scene involving Robert heavy-handedly re-emphasizes how coarse, drunken, and unrefined Robert is. Maybe that is exactly the case, or maybe there's more to him.

It would be a nice twist that would also pull the rug out from underneath the twins who seem so certain Robert is the biggest fool of all. I'd love a line from Robert like this:

"Yes, whore, I kept you alive because it amused me. I fucked you knowing you could not resist. I made your father pay for my excesses, financing my indulgences. I even let you breed the nasty spawn of your brother. You love him so, I've cut his cock off so you can have it, and here it is. Now, prepare to die and know smug Bitch, me stupid Robert, was always three steps ahead of you and your whole family."

I can dream right?

Good Lord...

[Hyper]

It's easy to laugh at or mock them - But were our theories of what would /should happen any better as we read the books?

[Anomandaris86]

No, I was referring to the dialogue. The guy's trying real hard to fit into this grim world. :D

[Mad Queen]

Some of them must be readers in sheep's clothing.

This leads me to ponder something somebody on this wall said early about Lyanna, Ned's sister. Perhaps Arya and her were alike. Maybe she figured out Robert was never going to be a good husband and ran off willingly with this Rhaegar... I surely could see Arya doing something like this. I dunno. Makes one wonder about a lot of things if you think that through...

It makes you wonder... Right. :rolleyes:

[Basileus777]

Yeah, there are a few posters in there that are clearly pretending. You can tell by how they phrase things, the terms they use that they've been exposed to the books.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

The true non-book watchers however won't know any better and probably won't give that theory more weight than any of the other ones (or so I hope anyway). That part you quoted, Mad Queen, really made me roll my eyes.

[Ran]

Shame on the Bookwalkers!

[WaitingforWylla]

Shame on the Bookwalkers!

I am not sure that all of the people y'all are rolling your eyes at are really 'bookwalkers'. Some certainly are (like the lice guy), but the series has played exposition very differently than the books, and some things (like the fact that there's something 'off' about the backstory vis-a-vis Lyanna) are much clearer off the bat in the TV series than in the books. This is in part because the Ned chapters in the books focus a lot on Ned's grief for his sister...whereas the TV series just has people making assertions and Ned being silent.

Also, lots of people watching for the first time are pretty genre-savy, and familiar with other HBO series - lots of people are essentially saying things like "Well, this is HBO, so the whole Wylla story can't be the real deal - they've presented it as a mystery too many times, and we are only on episode 4...so who are the candidates to _really_ be Jon's mother?" combine that with "you have my blood", and people could naturally guess Benjen or "the dead brother" or Lyanna + someone.

[Ran]

Certainly. But... I don't buy that the person drawing an Arya-Lyanna comparison that has never been made explicitly on the show isn't a Bookwalker. ;)