[Book Spoilers] EP104 Discussion

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I was so absorbed in the action that I didn't pay a single bit of attention to the extras. You guys are much more observant than me, that's for sure!

[KarentheUnicorn]

There were a bunch of people on the other side of the jousting field in one of the shots - maybe the people in the stands who could sit were just the noble men and women and the regular common folk and everyone else had to stand where they could to see. I'm not hugely bothered by the lack of background people but it did seem a bit sparce on the people in the stands side. The way it happened in the book I seem to remember Ned having to hunt for Sansa in the crowd and I don't see where that's gonna happen given the lack of seated people.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I'm definitely in the minority here but I thought the amount of people were fine. I also thought the amount of they've showed is fine too Dothraki, but I'm guess I'm easy to please or just more willing to overlook this aspect due to their understandable budget issues. I do hope they're able to pull off the battle scenes effectively though.

[Été]

I at first was miffed that they gave the Hounds story to Littlefinger and I'm hoping that they'll at least give us something good at the end of the tournament to make up for him.

After watching the scene again I'm kind of wondering, maybe the reason is as others have stated, they needed to setup Gregor and Sandor backstory earlier, but I don't know why that couldn't have been done effectively the way it was written in the book. But then again, since the tournament seems to be split over two episodes maybe it just works better this way for TV.

I'm also sort of wondering, is having someone else tell Sansa the story, is it a way to make her more frightened of the Hound. It kind of takes away from the Hound, in the book it was kind of interesting that he willingly told her that story. It's sort of unexpected and it almost seems like he was looking for something in her, sort of something worth fighting for.

But then I think maybe in a way it's more scary to have Littlefinger tell her so she can be more terrified of the Hound, the story might not be as scary coming from the sorce but whispered by someone like Littlefinger it makes it all more scary, and having him do the threat at the end, that her knowing puts her in danger...sort of translates to me that Littlefinger is sewing the seed of fear in her - sort of setting up a dynamic when she is going to be alone with the Hound.

I know we got to see the earlier scene when they first sort of officially met but to me Sansa didn't seem as scared as she was portrayed in the book. In the book she neals down and hugs on lady while the hound sort of makes fun of her. The show version, at least to me she didn't seem as scared but also it came across as more of a humiliation from Joffery to Sandor. Sansa and Sandor seemed to be getting along okay there till Joffery came in and had to open his big mouth.

So I'm crossing my fingers that they're going to give us something in the next episode that will make up for Littlefinger getting to take Sandor's revealing conversation.

That scene worked for me on its own merits; I'll only be displeased if it turns out they've cut the melée and the Hound's scene with Sansa. In fact, having it this way round establishes a few things.

1. Littlefinger is kinda weird around Sansa, not to mention generally untrustworthy and a gossip. See also: all of LF's screentime.

2. King's Landing is chock-full of scary people with swords.

3. The Clegane brothers have major beef. Old beef.

4. Gregor Clegane is a psychopath. See also: Ser Hugh of the Vale.

5. Sandor Clegane is someone to pity but mainly to fear, for his own sake as much as his loyalty to Joffrey. See also: Micah.

The latter points mean that non-readers will get more out of the tourney scenes next week.

[Xenophon]

Stuff like this never bothers me, but I noticed it at Castle Black as well. The extras in the background were just barely moving their swords. When we have this huge scene with Ser Alister yelling at the new recruits who are working their butts off, in the background we have other people who just seem to be chilling pretending to fight.

I'm just pretending that they are lazy as hell, so they won't do anything unless Thorne is yelling directly at them.

[wolverine]

Count me in the camp of people not liking the story being taken away from The Hound. they could have had the Littlefinger scene to set up and let non-readers know what is going on and still had The Hound give his version to Sansa. Littlefinger could have just said something like: "It is no wonder The Hound left when Gregor took over, rumor has it the scars on the dog's face were given to him by his brother."

The conversation between The Hound and Sansa on the way back from the feast is extremely important in the books IMO. Someone said something about the show Hound being more internal and less vocal, I think this would make the scene even more powerful, that for whatever reason this melancholy quiet monster is reaching out to Sansa with this story.

[Arya The Assassin]

To be clear, Hodor is Old Nan's GREAT grandson.

Ok, I stand corrected. Do they mention this in the TV series? (I don't remember) I still don't have a problem with his age though, he looks quite similar to the person I'd imagined in the books. I saw a photo of the actor, and he doesn't have gray hair (it's brown), so they probably gave him a wig or dyed his hair.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

No, that's his natural hair colour. He's mentioned before that they thought about dying it for the show, but they liked the way it looked, so they kept it.

[KarentheUnicorn]

That scene worked for me on its own merits; I'll only be displeased if it turns out they've cut the melée and the Hound's scene with Sansa. In fact, having it this way round establishes a few things.

1. Littlefinger is kinda weird around Sansa, not to mention generally untrustworthy and a gossip. See also: all of LF's screentime.

2. King's Landing is chock-full of scary people with swords.

3. The Clegane brothers have major beef. Old beef.

4. Gregor Clegane is a psychopath. See also: Ser Hugh of the Vale.

5. Sandor Clegane is someone to pity but mainly to fear, for his own sake as much as his loyalty to Joffrey. See also: Micah.

The latter points mean that non-readers will get more out of the tourney scenes next week.

I've read the 4 books in the series so I'm kinda aware of the story more than someone who is only viewing the show without reading.

I've come to realize all the characters are boarderline psychopaths, I'm not saying everyone is on Gregor's level of brutality but even those I deem good characters in this series do bad things from time to time.

[howland_reed]

Count me in the camp of people not liking the story being taken away from The Hound. they could have had the Littlefinger scene to set up and let non-readers know what is going on and still had The Hound give his version to Sansa. Littlefinger could have just said something like: "It is no wonder The Hound left when Gregor took over, rumor has it the scars on the dog's face were given to him by his brother."

The conversation between The Hound and Sansa on the way back from the feast is extremely important in the books IMO. Someone said something about the show Hound being more internal and less vocal, I think this would make the scene even more powerful, that for whatever reason this melancholy quiet monster is reaching out to Sansa with this story.

If they had removed the scene with Littlefinger/Sansa, we would've been deprived of this creepy gif.

http://i.imgur.com/DF7FR.gif

[Kaitscralt]

I'm guess I'm easy to please

It's not that you're easy to please, it's that most people are impossible to please.

What you are seeing is similar to the near-perfect LOTR film adaptations being dismissed by nerds for not having the pointless Tom Bombadil (sp?) scene in it, or the Harry Potter movies being called failures for not having useless tournaments of Quidditch in every movie.

People will never see success in something they don't think can nor really want to succeed. People be crazy!

[Été]

Count me in the camp of people not liking the story being taken away from The Hound. they could have had the Littlefinger scene to set up and let non-readers know what is going on and still had The Hound give his version to Sansa. Littlefinger could have just said something like: "It is no wonder The Hound left when Gregor took over, rumor has it the scars on the dog's face were given to him by his brother."

The conversation between The Hound and Sansa on the way back from the feast is extremely important in the books IMO. Someone said something about the show Hound being more internal and less vocal, I think this would make the scene even more powerful, that for whatever reason this melancholy quiet monster is reaching out to Sansa with this story.

There's a lot to that scene. He talks about his scorn for knighthood, his disdain for Sansa's idealism/ignorance, the pain of his burns, Gregor's violence... It's also a prime example of Sansa facing a real human adult, with nothing but bland courtly small talk at her disposal - which is how she spends most of the first two books.

Giving a chunk of Sandor's monologue to Littlefinger stays true to both of their encounters with Sansa and conveys the same information, but better paced for the screen. We'll find out next week.

If they had removed the scene with Littlefinger/Sansa, we would've been deprived of this creepy gif.

http://i.imgur.com/DF7FR.gif

ETA That is probably the single best thing I have ever seen

[KarentheUnicorn]

If they had removed the scene with Littlefinger/Sansa, we would've been deprived of this creepy gif.

http://i.imgur.com/DF7FR.gif

Runs away! Hide your daughters! (hehe)

[Kaitscralt]

That GIF is amazing!

[herkles]

I believe that the rest of the tournment will be shown in the next episode. I do recall seeing pictures of the melee, and other action so likely the next episode will have more of that.

I also liked some of the forshowdowing in this episode, ie jon talking about how he almost slept with a red-haired woman seems to be a subtle way of indicating towards ygritt later on. when tyrion was speaking of burning ships, indicates towards the battle with fire outside of king's landing((can't remember the name of that battle)). also the scene with sansa and the septa is forshadowing for when tommen does become king, after joferry dies. so there is some nice forshadowing, I wonder if anyone else caught some other examples

[Gargantuanjon Old Chap]

I believe that the rest of the tournment will be shown in the next episode. I do recall seeing pictures of the melee, and other action so likely the next episode will have more of that.

I also liked some of the forshowdowing in this episode, ie jon talking about how he almost slept with a red-haired woman seems to be a subtle way of indicating towards ygritt later on. when tyrion was speaking of burning ships, indicates towards the battle with fire outside of king's landing((can't remember the name of that battle)). also the scene with sansa and the septa is forshadowing for when tommen does become king, after joferry dies. so there is some nice forshadowing, I wonder if anyone else caught some other examples

Jory telling Jaime that he will remember Greyjoy battle till the day he dies (very soon, and pretty much by Jaime's hand)

[herkles]

oh, I forgot about that one, that also gave a little clue to thoros. I am hoping we see him in one episode if just to see that fire sword of his.

[Été]

If they're showing Gregor's joust with the Knight of Flowers, they have to show Beric Dondarrion vs Thoros of Myr - they've name dropped Thoros already and both become important later.

I also liked some of the forshowdowing in this episode, ie jon talking about how he almost slept with a red-haired woman seems to be a subtle way of indicating towards ygritt later on. when tyrion was speaking of burning ships, indicates towards the battle with fire outside of king's landing((can't remember the name of that battle)). also the scene with sansa and the septa is forshadowing for when tommen does become king, after joferry dies. so there is some nice forshadowing, I wonder if anyone else caught some other examples

The Battle of the Blackwater ;)

[Hyper]

There was also a neat shout-out to the existence of faceless men by Doreah. (the bathtub scene)

[Asha—Not Yara!]

There was also a neat shout-out to the existence of faceless men by Doreah. (the bathtub scene)

I LOVED the foreshadowing of that scene for Season 2. I don't think we got foreshadowing of the Faceless Men in the first book did we? I remember the Faceless Men being mentioned as awesome assassins in book 1, but I didn't remember their nifty face changing abilities being mentioned until we saw it.