Jump to content

Ponder this theory on Jon Snow's parentage...


davezenz

Recommended Posts

I'd like you to just entertain this idea for a moment. Just for giggles. Honestly I think George has Rhaegar and Lyanna designed as Jon Snow's parents but I did wonder briefly about this idea.

What if Robert is Jon's father?

We know from "Maggy the Frog" that Robert was suppose to father 16 children and not all of them are accounted for.

We know Robert's children favor his dark hair.

We know Robert had intense feelings for Lyanna.

Hey it is real stretch but could it be possible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like you to just entertain this idea for a moment. Just for giggles. Honestly I think George has Rhaegar and Lyanna designed as Jon Snow's parents but I did wonder briefly about this idea.

What if Robert is Jon's father?

We know from "Maggy the Frog" that Robert was suppose to father 16 children and not all of them are accounted for.

We know Robert's children favor his dark hair.

We know Robert had intense feelings for Lyanna.

Hey it is real stretch but could it be possible?

Hey, in a world with white walkers, dragons and face-changers, I suppose anything's possible. A real problem I have here though is that whenever Robert thinks of kids at all, which doesn't often happen, he's all about 'kill the Targs! kill the Targs! kill the Targs!' And Ned reacts to this with obvious discomfort--ergo, Ned is hiding something from Robert. And why would he hide one of Robert's bastards, Robert obviously doesn't give an ounce of thought to his many bastards. And going even further back in the story, wouldn't a grief stricken young warrior Robert have been over-joyed to know he had a son from his beloved Lyanna? Yup, he would. Again, no need to hide Jon from Robert, not then, not now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would Ned hide that from him?

He is very open about his other bastards. And Robert and Lyanna were betrothed. I think Robert would have raised the child himself if it was R+L.

edit: Ups. A little to late with this :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be Robert's son, Jon would have to have been conceived before Rhaegar absconded with Lyanna. That would make him significantly (at least a year) older than Robb, who was conceived on Ned and Catelyn's wedding night. Instead, Jon is slightly younger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not like a son by Lyanna and Robert would be considered a bastard by anybody anyway, they might not have said their vows but they WERE to be married..

Betrothed isn't married. He'd still be a bastard, but Robert would have legitimised his son by Lyanna without a moment's hesitation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like you to just entertain this idea for a moment. Just for giggles. Honestly I think George has Rhaegar and Lyanna designed as Jon Snow's parents but I did wonder briefly about this idea.

What if Robert is Jon's father?

It's a popular theory among the unspoiled TV fans right now, I can tell you. :) I don't think it's been ruled out definitively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that would be an unexpected turn of events, though i can't say i dislike the idea.

on jon being a year older than robb if that were the case, aren't we hit over the head with "bastards grow faster than other children" often enough?

it would be interesting to find out that saying was started by ned to cover for the difference between jon's supposed age and his real age.

that being said, this theory is highly unlikely for reasons already posted here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that would be an unexpected turn of events, though i can't say i dislike the idea.

on jon being a year older than robb if that were the case, aren't we hit over the head with "bastards grow faster than other children" often enough?

it would be interesting to find out that saying was started by ned to cover for the difference between jon's supposed age and his real age.

that being said, this theory is highly unlikely for reasons already posted here.

GRRM has said that Jon was born about eight or nine months before Daenerys, so around the Sack of King's Landing. That means Jon had to have been conceived a few months into the war. So there's really no question about how old Jon is. And as others have said, this means that it's highly unlikely for Robert to be the father.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my first read of AGOT, that is what I thought too. I worked out/suspected that Jon was Lyanna's child pretty quickly, almost from the first "Promise me, Ned" flashback. I assumed that the father of Lyanna's child would have to be someone important for it to be such a scandal that Ned would have to lie for her. At that stage Robert was the most powerful person around, plus he was in love with her, so it made sense.

It wasn't until the next couple of books that I reaslised that Robert was totally irrelevant and not at all important, and if Jon was his son, well so what? who would care?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the replies above seem to assume that Ned knew Jon was Robert's. But would Robert or Lyanna even have told Ned if they slept together just before Lyanna went off with Rhaegar (that slut!)?s Indeed, would Lyanna even know who the father was? Her objection to Robert was that he would never be faithful - how did she know?

So the Kingsguard at the TOJ could well have assumed, indeed Rhaegar and Lyanna might have believed, that Jon was Rhaegar's ... child, bastard or not.

ETA punctuation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All of Robert's children are exactly like him, with both black hair and blue eyes, even if the genetics are a bit dodgy that seems to be the case. Jon has brown hair and grey eyes like your average Stark.

Not to mention the obvious stretches on Lyanna's character. Robert and Lyanna never personally met AFAIK, even though they saw each other from afar (on Harrenhal's tournament?). And the dates. And just about eveyrthing else.

Jon will be Arthur Dayne's before Robert's, kids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon will be Arthur Dayne's before Robert's, kids.

:mellow: That would be AMAZING!

There's a Ned memory in AGoT in which he reassures Lyanna that what Robert did before their betrothal didn't matter: "that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart", but Lyanna is having none of it and fully expects him to philander once they're married. I got the impression that although the families knew one another, Robert and Lyanna had barely met.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All of Robert's children are exactly like him, with both black hair and blue eyes, even if the genetics are a bit dodgy that seems to be the case. Jon has brown hair and grey eyes like your average Stark.

Not to mention the obvious stretches on Lyanna's character. Robert and Lyanna never personally met AFAIK, even though they saw each other from afar (on Harrenhal's tournament?). And the dates. And just about eveyrthing else.

Jon will be Arthur Dayne's before Robert's, kids.

If Robert is really Jon's father and Ned knew, then Ned really would be the dumbest character in the series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest issue is one of opportunity. When would this have happened? We don't know much about the timeline of Robert's Rebellion, but from what we do know, it just doesn't seem to work. If Lyanna is Jon's mother, it seems likely she would have been impregnated while she was "kidnapped."

The other issue is why keep it secret. And this is where the timeline comes up again. When did Robert marry Cersei? I assumed it was after finding out that Lyanna was dead. If Jon is Robert's child by Lyanna and Robert hasn't married yet, wouldn't it be completely in keeping with Robert's character to acknowledge and legitimize Jon? From a dynastic standpoint, it's also not the worst idea in the world in that there would be no question of an heir from the newly installed king.

Now, if Robert had already married Cersei when Eddard finds Jon, I can see wanting to keep Jon's existence a secret from the Lannisters. (Them not seeming to have many compunctions about killing babies and whatnot.) However, why keep it a secret from Robert? Robert obviously had other older bastards (Mya Stone, for example) that he knew about and had taken care of, even if he didn't formally acknowledge them as his own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing that's kind of interesting is this theory is popular among the unspoiled TV show viewers because in fact Jon in the TV series has Robert's coloring, not Ned's. :D I could see that being confusing.

Rhaegar + Lyanna has also been guessed for the record (other guesses have been Aerys + Lyanna, Robert + Cersei, Ned + Cersei, Brandon the elder + Catelyn (that's a mindfuck right there), and Benjen + ???).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, why keep it a secret from Robert? Robert obviously had other older bastards (Mya Stone, for example) that he knew about and had taken care of, even if he didn't formally acknowledge them as his own.

This is a good point, in that there's no reason why Jon as a bastard of Robert would need to be kept secret: but the suggestion that Robert had his other bastards 'taken care of' is way wide of the mark. He had Edric Storm fostered at Storm's End, but he had little choice about that. Varys sends Edric presents on Robert's behalf, but this appears to be his own initiative - Robert chuckles about it. Mya and Robert's other bastards have been completely ignored by him: he's done nothing for them, if he is even aware of their existence. That may have been different with a child by Lyanna, of course.

Anyway, as others have pointed out the theory can't work - the timelines simply can't be made to fit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the replies above seem to assume that Ned knew Jon was Roberts. But would Robert or Lyanna even have told Ned if they slept together just before Lyanna went off with Rhaegar (that slut!). Indeed, would Lyanna even know who the father was? Her objection to Robert was that he would never be faithful - how did she know?

If the only people who could possibly know about this are dead, then what's the point of this theory?

Anyway, as others have said, it's not possible for Jon to have been conceived before the Rebellion. In order for Robert to be his father, he and Lyanna would have had to sleep together a few months into the Rebellion, which really doesn't make sense from what we know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...