Ponder this theory on Jon Snow's parentage...

[StormbornBee]

Rhaegar + Ashara Dayne? If Jon is not Eddard's, he must be a Targaryen as that makes Ned taking the stain on his honor all the more heroic. Jon having Rhaegar for a dad and Arthur Dayne for an uncle is pretty bad-assed and he will be the next to carry the Sword of his Dayne side. Ned took on Jon as his bastard because he loved Ashara or was very fond of her and because he did not feel right about all of the slaughter of the Targaryens and especially the attempt to stamp out their line. Ned also knew that Robert would have Jon killed. Jon could have his dark hair and whatnot from the Dayne side?

Someone else already said what I'm about to say... but Jon HAS to be a Stark:

1) There are six direwolves found, because there are six Stark children. Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, and Jon. The old gods would have sent five if Jon was not indeed a Stark.

2) It is said repeatedly that Jon and Arya look alike because they both look like their father. If Ned isn't Jon's father, then his true father or his mother has to be a Stark in order for him to have the Stark look.

[Xenophon]

If Jon gets a dragon, where will Ghost sit?

Ghost will ride the third dragon himself, for he is the third head of the Dragon! His fur is pale, like the Targaryens's hair, making him of Fire, but his species is from the north, making him of Ice. It is known.

[OneTrueWarg]

Either way I think we all might be surprised inmthe end

[Dragonfish]

Interesting theories, but in GoT Ned and Robert have a conversation about Jon's mother and Ned tells us what her name is. I don't remember off the top of my head what it was (and a friend is borrowing my books... anyone remember it?) because it's only mentioned once that I know of, when everyone is headed to Kings Landing from Winterfell.

Whoever Jon's mother is, Ned took the full story to the grave and unless the mysterious woman is introduced elsewhere in the series, we may never know more than a name. I have a nagging suspicion that she's more important than Ned ever let on, or why would her identity need to be kept so secret?

The "mother" that Ned mentions is Wylla.

However, Ned never outright states that Wylla is Jon's mother in that scene. Robert just makes that assumption, and Ned never corrects him. At least, that's how many people interpret that scene.

But even if Ned did outright state that she was Jon's mother, that doesn't really contradict R+L=J, because it makes sense that Ned would lie about who Jon's real mother is in order to protect him (again, assuming R+L=J).

[Galen M]

The "mother" that Ned mentions is Wylla.

However, Ned never outright states that Wylla is Jon's mother in that scene. Robert just makes that assumption, and Ned never corrects him. At least, that's how many people interpret that scene.

But even if Ned did outright state that she was Jon's mother, that doesn't really contradict R+L=J, because it makes sense that Ned would lie about who Jon's real mother is in order to protect him (again, assuming R+L=J).

Although it does kind of disprove N+A=J, since there is no reason he wouldn't tell a half-drunk Robert, his oldest friend, that is was Ashara Dayne.

[defcon]

late to the party, but this thread caught my eye having just finished Storm. for some reason, i never got the impression that jon wasn't ned's (though i wouldnt be surprised if he wasn't either). two passages from storm stuck out to me on this regard. first post on this forum, so i'm not sure if everyone's all caught up with the series, but i'll spoiler tag to be safe.

Bran chapter where Meera tells the story of the Harrenhall tournament:

“Under Harren’s roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night’s Watch. The storm lord drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war. The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench.

The other, iirc, was also a story, about how some highborn (the same from Harrenhall?) woman threw herself off a cliff or tower over unrequited love from Ned.

[House Stark for Life]

Check out the R + L = J thread......

Trust me there are plenty of sources in the books to hint at Jon's true parents. I picked up on it on the 1st read. But my dad and my best freind both did not. But then again I am always looking for small details while reading books.

I guess it depends on the reader. My dad hates watching mystery movies with my mom and I as well usually pick the killer early on......ticks him off to no end. LOL

[7V3N]

Hey, in a world with white walkers, dragons and face-changers, I suppose anything's possible. A real problem I have here though is that whenever Robert thinks of kids at all, which doesn't often happen, he's all about 'kill the Targs! kill the Targs! kill the Targs!' And Ned reacts to this with obvious discomfort--ergo, Ned is hiding something from Robert. And why would he hide one of Robert's bastards, Robert obviously doesn't give an ounce of thought to his many bastards. And going even further back in the story, wouldn't a grief stricken young warrior Robert have been over-joyed to know he had a son from his beloved Lyanna? Yup, he would. Again, no need to hide Jon from Robert, not then, not now.

I find this unlikely, but perhaps Ned hid it from Robert for the following reasons:

• Ned misses Lyanna and wanted something to keep her close to him after her death. Remember how Ned and Robert had a disagreement about Lyanna being buried in the crypts of Winterfell?
  
• We all know how wicked the Lannisters are and how Robert loved Lyanna over Cersei always. So perhaps Ned feared for Jon's life because he knew Robert would show him extensive love and end up raising him as a true-born son. A king can allow a bastard to inherit! So the Lannisters would feel threatened and kill Jon Snow for it.
  

Again, unlikely, but not impossible.

[serdog]

Second of all, it's not at all true that Targaryen children always have the Targaryen look. One of Rhaegar's children, either Aegon or Rhaenys, had the Martell look. So there's good reason to suppose that Jon simply takes after his mother rather than his father. In fact, the books actually make an indirect comparison between Jon and Lyanna by comparing Jon to Arya and Arya to Lyanna. So there.

Balor Breakspear looked totally Martell as one of Makekar's sons

[Nedric The Wintertainer]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but wouldn't there be an age discrepancy if Jon was Robert's? I may have my timelines screwed up, but it seems to me that conception would have had to take place before the Rebellion, which would have placed Jon's age as slightly older than Robb's, but it's the opposite. I may be completely wrong, but it's a point to raise nonetheless.

[memmorio]

Would be funny, but Jon is said to have Stark features like Ned.

[lady_winterborn]

All of Robert's children are exactly like him, with both black hair and blue eyes, even if the genetics are a bit dodgy that seems to be the case. Jon has brown hair and grey eyes like your average Stark.

Enough said. Add the other arguments (timeline, Robert taking care of his bastards) and it should be pretty clear, that Jon can't be his son.

[GoTSpoiler]

Okay, here's the deal with the mystery of Jon Snow's parents AND (!) the likely ending of the series, at least according to the combined reasoning of my friend and I last Sunday after watching all the DVD extras (and I've read the books).

But BE WARNED -- to understand the implication's of Jon's parentage is also to visualize a possible outcome of the story (at least, its seems compellingly obvious to us now), so read at your own risk...

Robert Baratheon and Lyanna Stark are Jon's parents. I know, sounds banal and misguided, right? But the implications become apparent in the context of the series' denouement: the Targaryen monarch of New Valyria (the re-conquered Seven Kingdoms), based out of Dragonstone and King's Landing, has brokered a peace with the White Walkers (who are actually the Children of the Forest known from ancient folklore) and the need for the wall is gone. A Baratheon (Jon Baratheon) is returned to Storm's End, and a Targaryen rules the kingdoms. Thus the story comes full circle, and ends. The intricate history is key to the force of this theory, and Martin has left a haze (but not a blackout) on the key events and background. Allow me to frame the hypothesis.

First, Jon Snow is Robert's heir. The physical evidence is obvious (the dark hair, the dark hair, the dark hair), but the plot implications are not so obvious -- until you think it through. "If Jon were Robert's child, it would be irrelevant for the plot," you might say. But not so fast. If Stannis dies, then Jon is the Baratheon heir. That's right, not bastard. Heir. Robert and Lyanna were to be married, and may have been set to wed before the child was to be born. But the kidnap intervened. There is an appealing argument for the child's legitimacy: Jon was born of Robert's true love and betrothed; Jon is therefore Robert's only living male heir (in the very least, Robert's legion of bastards, born of whores, could never marshal any such claim). "But," you object, "why on earth would Ned hide Robert's own son from him?!" I know, it sounds like lunacy, and here most people abandon the theory. But that would be hasty.

So why would Ned hide Jon from Robert, and even defame his Stark honour to keep such a secret? The answer: the child's life was in danger. Jon Baratheon would always be a target; Jon Snow would not. And why would Jon Baratheon, born of the Stark and Baratheon bloodlines, be in danger? When Lyanna made Ned promise to keep her secret, she was already dying. Robert, as King, or even just as Lord of Storm's End, would have to wed another. Robert would need to marry into another bloodline, a bloodline that likely wouldn't appreciate an heir from a dead ex-wife-to-be, especially if Lyanna and Ned already new that Robert's back-up bride would be a Lannister. Think about that. Would the Lannisters, after marrying into the royal family, appreciate a male heir of Robert and Lyanna Stark hanging around? Knowing that she was going to die and another would take her place, Lyanna made her brother promise to keep Jon a secret, so he would never be a target. Starting to make sense?

"But wait," you finally intervene, ready to play your trump card: Jon took the black, said the words, and foreclosed his fate; even if the Stormlands were to recognize that Jon was Robert's legitimate child, Jon is still ispo facto excluded from the goings-on of the kingdoms and could never abandon his vows (except in treason, universally recognized) (and witness the old Targaryen Jon met on the wall; Night's Watch members' old blood connections mean nothing, as the old Targaryen learned when "all" the Targaryens were wiped out). Therefore, even if Robert is Jon's father, no kingdom would accept a Night's Watch member as lord or king ... That's true ... Unless the Night's Watch didn't exist any more. If there were no wall to defend, if there were no enemy to be kept out, then the Night's Watch would dissolve. At the very time that the Targaryen dynasty, dragons and all, is restored to the seven kingdoms, so too is the house of Baratheon restored to Storm's End (again, full circle, precisely the structure of things in the period after Aegon's Conquest).

"Hold on," you say now, shaking your head: "peace with the Others? No need for a wall?" Okay, I've skipped a few steps.

Danaerys (or possibly another Targaryen revealed in the 5th book) will become the new ruler of Westeros. It's pretty obvious. The seven kingdoms are chewing themselves up, and a new threat is rising in the north. They need unity. The Targaryens clearly offer that. We also know that when Aegon conquered Westeros, he did so from Dragonstone. On Dragonstone, we have learned, there is an abundance of obsidian. Readers know that obsidian is like green kryptonite to the white walkers (and/or their undead). Following the legendary mode of Aegon the Conqueror, Danaerys (or her nephew) will begin the new conquest from Dragonstone. At this time, the kingdoms are divided and crumbling before onslaughts from the dark armies of the winter. Not only do the Targaryens have dragons (and Fire!) on their side, but they have a massive supply of obsidian from Dragonstone. All this is too suggest how the Targaryen return might turn the tide in the war against the Others. No, I am not predicting a simple, black-and-white, good-defeats-evil kind of ending. Because I suspect we will learn that the enemy from the north is not evil. Why? Because, as my buddy said in a moment of clairvoyance, the white walkers are the children of the forest. And they've been in a cold dark place for a long, long time, and they're pissed. But they're not evil. Danaerys (or her nephew) will make peace with them, restoring the ancient balance of men with the children of the forest. A Targaryen will preside over the realms. And Baratheons (who have Valyrian blood, and played a key role at the right hand side of the Targaryen kings for centuries until Robert's Rebellion, will again be seated at Storm's End, the loyal Hand of the Targaryen dynasty). So at long last, R + L = J is correct (except R = Robert).

That's our theory. Beat it.

[lady m]

<snip>

Nice try, but Jon is significantly too young, by about 1/2 a year at least, to be Robert's child conceived before the Rebellion began. He's born around the same time as the Sack of Kings Landing, which is 10-11 months into the Rebellion. Also, betrothed is not married, Jon would still be a bastard. Edric would still come before him in hypothetical succession lines since Robert openly acknowledged Edric was his son.

Jon takes after his mother, looks wise, as did several Targaryens, Baelor Breakspear, Rhaenys, to name two. Targaryen genes are recessive. Also, Roberts bastards didn't just have his hair, they had his blue eyes, all of them. Jon does not.

Further, Lyanna and Ned wouldn't have known about a backup bride, since one didn't exist. Tywin Lannister isn't going to backup betrothe his only daughter.

Not sure who Daenerys nephew in this scenario is. It wouldn't be Jon, they would be cousins. The only way Jon is her nephew is if Rhaegar is his father, which he very likely is.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Wouldn't make any sense. Why would Lyanna ask Ned to keep the bastard from Robert?

Robert would probably love the child, maybe even legitimize him etc.

[The Night's Prince]

LOL this isn't even giggle worthy...oh wait...I see what you did thar! :bowdown:

[GoTSpoiler]

Thanks all. But who is to say that Robert's child from a Stark (of the old blood) must also necessarily have blue eyes. And Ned would hide him because a Jon Baratheon would always be an obstacle and a threat to the family of the new queen, who would want to insert their own blood into the royal line. Of course a male Baratheon born of the Stark line would be a target for the Lannisters (no?).

And who is to say that Jon won't be the last Baratheon standing when all is said and done.

And lastly, this way allows for Jon and Dany to get together, cementing the ancient bond between their families

[GoTSpoiler]

Your faces:

[Ser Greg of House House]

Someone else already said what I'm about to say... but Jon HAS to be a Stark:

1) There are six direwolves found, because there are six Stark children. Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, and Jon. The old gods would have sent five if Jon was not indeed a Stark.

2) It is said repeatedly that Jon and Arya look alike because they both look like their father. If Ned isn't Jon's father, then his true father or his mother has to be a Stark in order for him to have the Stark look.

You're the one saying the old gods sent the direwolves. For all we know it could all be just a coincidence. :)

But yeah, he's a Stark. Either Ned's or Lyanna's (Lyanna looked like Arya). Probably Lyanna's.

[jon stark I]

Wait a second Then when Ned found Lyanna she already gave birth to Jon and that means Jon was at least 9 months old right?So was Lyanna an open blood factory all that time?The bed of blood doesn't make any sense.