Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Xray the Enforcer

[BOOK SPOILERS] EP104 Discussion, Take Two

128 posts in this topic

Closed the last thread due to length. Do continue, but please remember to keep the discussion civil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having just finished reading the last 8 or so pages of the thread, I have to wonder if there's any benefit people get in coming to this forum, or seeing the show. I think the point of reading a book, or watching a TV show is trying to get immersed in the story, the characters, and to enjoy the tale told to you. People seem to be purposefully trying to see the show not to be entertained, or accept it as a story, but to be TV and movie critics. Not watching what Jon, or Dany, or Robert are doing, but how their actors are acting as them, not watching Kings Landing or the Wall, or Winterfell, but how the various sets look like these places. Why can you not see the show for what its trying to tell - the story of Westeros and the great families in it - but instead are obsessed with seeing it with what it actually objectively is - a 21st century tv production that's there to criticize and technically analyse. Are you enjoying yourselves? I had things I didn't like as well when I saw the first episode, but I have stopped caring, and just accept what I see as how the story is, and don't try to analyze the show as filmed TV.

I guess we just have different viewing styles. I disect and discuss pretty much every movie, TV show and book I watch/read. Even in shows/books I really, really love (like this one) there are still questions/comments/criticisms that I have and that I like to discuss with like-minded people.

For me criticising a book or show is every bit as enjoyable as reading/watching. The "de-brief" for me is very important. It is about being engaged with the text, thinking and questioning it, not just accepting what is being put in front of you. I don't think that being an audience member is a passive thing to do, it is a two way street, and personally I think we do the creators of this show a great justice by our frank and spirited critique - it show that we care and that we are paying attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Closed the last thread due to length. Do continue, but please remember to keep the discussion civil.

Nothing really to add here, just thought I'd bring the new thread to life. The Enforcer with the Xray eyes seems to have scared everybody away. :rolleyes:

:leaving:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On my re-watch in HD, Hodor looked younger than I'd thought at first. I'm not quite as concerned about that as much as I had been. :)

The establishing shot of the tourney had a pretty large crowd in it. The closeups didn't match up quite as well as they could've, but it wasn't as bad as I'd thought on my first watch.

Oddly, I felt this episode lacked Drogo! Hehe. I wanted to see the two of them together and Dany's confidence growing at the same time.

I said this earlier, but the exposition dump was necessary, it had to come now before the plot started accelerating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This episode definitely improves with re-watching. I really enjoyed the scenes at the Wall, and Ser Alliser's character is definitely growing on me. Still not convinced that Littlefinger should have had the Hound's lines, but I'm hoping that it's all to the good of not rushing into revealing the Hound's character. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the tournament in the next episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This episode definitely improves with re-watching. I really enjoyed the scenes at the Wall, and Ser Alliser's character is definitely growing on me. Still not convinced that Littlefinger should have had the Hound's lines, but I'm hoping that it's all to the good of not rushing into revealing the Hound's character. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the tournament in the next episode.

The one thing I wonder about is, how did Littlefinger know the story to begin with? I wonder if they'll explain that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I chalked that up to Littlefinger's watchers, and the fact that he is a creepy mccreeperson who makes it his business to know everyone else's, and then can't keep his mouth shut about it if it will give him an excuse to look down pubescent girl's tops. Or at least, I kind of figure that that's what the non-book readers will think.

(Which I can't really say is inaccurate... Was anyone else majorly grossed out when he snuck a peek, or was that just me? Poor Aidan Gillen, he's doing a fantastic job but that has to be at least a little awkward when you're acting against someone who actually IS fourteen, unlike Holliday Granger's 23-playing-14.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it looks like every reasonable nit has been picked, as well as some true reaches (Jon has a fat face.... really?), so it's time to up the ante: On my rewatch, I was terribly distracted by the line of spittle hanging between Viserys and Doreah's faces after they broke off from a round of tongue-fencing. Seriously, it stayed there suspended for a good 4 seconds.

I'm glad another poster mentioned the lack of heraldry. This is one of the few laments I have of this visual adaptation. I get the primary reasons listed so far: budget probably first and foremost, and not wanting to make it too cartoony. Sure, you don't want anyone looking like a Power Ranger out there, but a sigil on a shield or cloak would be nice. I'd have LOVED to see even a 15 second montage of various "heavies" arriving to the tourney with some entourages. Much like in ep01 when Sansa is pointing out everyone who arrives at Winterfell, they could simply have LF or someone similar pointing out the various arrivals. You wouldn't even need to see him, just his voice-over while various well-known knights or clusters of knights ride up to sign in or register or whatever they have to do before it gets underway. I don't know, maybe that would only be effective for readers of the series, and seen as unecessary clutter for non-readers?

Otherwise, this show is just wowing me more and more every week. I have a friend who is purposefully not watching a single episode until the season is complete, so he can watch it all at his own pace instead of having to wait a week for the next fix. Goddam him, I wish I could've done that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really important, but Sansa´s actress really looked beautiful in the tourney scene, while in every other scene before that she looked regular to me.

Many people said she was ugly and other said she was really good looking but she just looked average to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon has a fat face. In my opinion of course. Others may think his face looks thin and gaunt. He is much chubbier than I had envisioned reading the books.

I hope that last comment is only referring to your view on his face because he has a pretty low body fat percentage as he's pretty well defined muscularly.

I don't think that being an audience member is a passive thing to do, it is a two way street, and personally I think we do the creators of this show a great justice by our frank and spirited critique - it show that we care and that we are paying attention.

I tend to say the same thing, that an audience member shouldn't be passive. My reasoning is different though. In my opinion the enjoyment of a work of art lies 50% with the creators doing quality work and 50% with the viewer doing everything he can to get immersed into the work and not an outsider. I feel that being too analytical will remove you from where the work is trying to put you so when I try to be analytical I try not to go into that mode until a second viewing.

This is not an argument to say that anything you said is wrong, I just felt like mentioning a similar but still different view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hands up if you were waiting for the sound of swords being unsheathed at the end of Tyrion's arrest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one thing I wonder about is, how did Littlefinger know the story to begin with? I wonder if they'll explain that.

I assume this is a case of an 'open secret'. Rumours about such a grisly event (even by Westeros standards) were bound to slip out.

I get the primary reasons listed so far: budget probably first and foremost, and not wanting to make it too cartoony. Sure, you don't want anyone looking like a Power Ranger out there, but a sigil on a shield or cloak would be nice.

Plenty of shields with sigils, but they are often too dark to spot without HD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On nitpicking. People are free to nitpick anything they want (within forum guidelines of course). Other folks are, of course, equally free to call it nitpicking and make a joke about it. Meant no offense, just made me think of a funny scene...

For me, I separate source material from what I am currently enjoying. They are different entities. The job of the writers and directors of the tv show's job is not to add moving pictures to the books. Their job is to make an entertaining television show which enough people will watch so they can continue to make them. If they think it's more entertaining to have Littlefinger tell Sandor's story, than that's what they should do. (for example) I expect to see serious divergences from the books at some point, and will judge those those differences on their merits as parts of the television show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has nothing to do with the source material. Lady Stark says she recognises the sigil on the guy's coat. The coat doesn't have a sigil on it. You don't need to read the books to be annoyed by that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has nothing to do with the source material. Lady Stark says she recognises the sigil on the guy's coat. The coat doesn't have a sigil on it. You don't need to read the books to be annoyed by that.

Well there was a bat on the shield in front of him, but I doubt it was embroidered on the shield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has nothing to do with the source material. Lady Stark says she recognises the sigil on the guy's coat. The coat doesn't have a sigil on it. You don't need to read the books to be annoyed by that.

It's hard to be annoyed since we don't even see his coat. The man responding to Cat is not wearing one so it's most likely laid beside him while he eats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Online Forums are for nitpicking, happy people send greeting cards, flowers and chocolate.

Well it looks like every reasonable nit has been picked, as well as some true reaches (Jon has a fat face.... really?), so it's time to up the ante: On my rewatch, I was terribly distracted by the line of spittle hanging between Viserys and Doreah's faces after they broke off from a round of tongue-fencing. Seriously, it stayed there suspended for a good 4 seconds.

Yes, I saw it the first time (hehe) Dragon spit has long lasting powers, strong like spiderweb!

Am wondering if I'm the only person who didn't like the bathtub scene. I have no issue with sex scenes or anything like that, it's just this one was kinda meh. It felt more like an info dump than sexy or naughty, whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coat = coat of arms

Probably not in this case though since she says "embroidered on your coat". Shields are painted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites