The appealing nature of all Arya chapters

[Free Northman]

I have come to realise what I love so much about Arya's character. When you get right down to it, through Arya we experience perhaps the only character who never succumbs to the terrors of her environment, but instead manages to exert the power of her personality no matter what tribulations she is subjected to.

She shows her defiance in small, but incredibly powerful ways. And it is this defiance, and her determination to impose her own will on her environment and situation that offers us an escape from the endless list of other characters who are largely victims of their circumstances.

Some of the most treasured exmaples of Arya defying the morbid and depressing circumstances she constantly finds herself in are the following (and my references grow more vague the further back in the series they occur, because I haven't read the early books for many years now):

Her defiance of the Septa when she has to do embroidery.

Hitting the most powerful young man in the realm - Joffrey - with her wooden sword - classic!

Riding through the ravaged Riverlands, and instead of letting the rotting corpses terrify her, she reaches up and plucks an apple from amongst them, and bites into it. Very liberating for the reader.

Despite being in the most terrifying location in Westeros - a servant in Harrenhal - she becomes the Ghost of Harrenhal and once again exercises her power in an otherwise powerless situation.

Leaning over to Ja'qen Hqar and whispering the name: "Ja'qen Hgar". Beautiful.

Sticking Polliver with the pointy end.

When the Kindly man transforms into a rotting corpse with a worm in his eye, she plucks the worm out and eats it. Again, you just get the feeling that whatever the situation, Arya will not only surive it, but take control of it.

When the Black Pearl - the most exclusive courtesan in Braavos actually deigns to talk to her ( a mere street urchin), asking her what is your name little one, she replies something like. "Cat. And don't call me little one." Classic!

Her defense of Samwell against the Bravos, despite her being an 11 year old girl and him being a full brother of the Night's Watch. That was truly enjoyable.

The point is, amidst all the suffering the reader has to experience, and the helplessness of most characters, Arya's is the ONE chapter you can look forward to where the character will never have a victim mentality, will never wallow in self pity, but will stubbornly take control of whatever part of her destiny she is able to.

Hence, while I dread what new horror or misfortune I will experience when I read through the eyes of my other heroes like Bran or Jon, I positively relish the Arya chapters, because I just know she will deal with whatever comes her way, and put her own uniquely forceful stamp on the situation.

For people who follow the theories of personal effectiveness, she is the ultimate example of someone who has an internal locus of control, rather than letting her situation determine her behavior for her. Her will dominates her circumstances, irrespective of the actual power that she possesses, rather than the other way around.

[AvengingAryaFan]

Ah, but it isn't enough for Martin to merely have Arya spunkily seek to control her own circumstances. He also has her fearlessly seek to avenge all the wrongs that come to her attention (e.g., her list based on harms to the villagers and others), and additionally makes her empathetic with all harmless people (giving water to the caged prisoners in Stony Sept; sending sailors to Merry both because she doesn't hurt them but also because Merry herself is good to her girls; trying to save Lommy and the crying girl; saving the chained prisoners; feeling for injured Narbo and trying to help him get what he wants, a rowing job; etc., etc.)

And then he adds this dark contrast by making her entirely capable of killing (when there's a good reason). And although she probably didn't kill Dareon, if killing is needed she goes for the jugular. Readers fear she is becoming too dark, and certainly the Ghost of High Heart sees her as a dark heart causing lots of death. But thus far her sense of justice has been impeccable (if I'm right about Dareon, anyway), and there's reason to hope her justice will at least be superior to the horror of her undead mother's mindless vengeance.

[Lord Varys]

Arya has been twisted by her environment and the things she has seen and done. She has become a murderer, and that essentially drove her away emotionally from her family. That is why she is actually afraid to be united with Cat and Robb in ASoS, and fears that they might not want her back.

The Arya Stark of AGoT obviously had the potential of becoming what she is now (else she would not have become what she is now), but she was not what she is now back then. And she is, in my opinion, way too much driven by her hate, and not really able or on the road to become a normal person again, let alone prepared to be reunited with the remnants of her family (Bran, Rickon, Sansa, or Jon - and no one is prepared to meet Cat again).

Her sense of justice is, in my opinion, just the usual black-and-white view most children seem to have. That's nothing special.

[Free Northman]

Arya has been twisted by her environment and the things she has seen and done. She has become a murderer, and that essentially drove her away emotionally from her family. That is why she is actually afraid to be united with Cat and Robb in ASoS, and fears that they might not want her back.

The Arya Stark of AGoT obviously had the potential of becoming what she is now (else she would not have become what she is now), but she was not what she is now back then. And she is, in my opinion, way too much driven by her hate, and not really able or on the road to become a normal person again, let alone prepared to be reunited with the remnants of her family (Bran, Rickon, Sansa, or Jon - and no one is prepared to meet Cat again).

Her sense of justice is, in my opinion, just the usual black-and-white view most children seem to have. That's nothing special.

In fact, Martin created Arya as the true Stark. Sansa - her complete opposite - was merely added because no family is perfect, and her unstarklike personality added some conflict to the family.

Arya is Lyanna in almost every sense, only she has taken it to a whole new level.

She will fit in perfectly with the rest of her family once she gets back. She is the true heart of the Old North. Hard and uncompromising, yet just and even handed. She only kills bad people. Not good ones.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

In fact, Martin created Arya as the true Stark. Sansa - her complete opposite - was merely added because no family is perfect, and her unstarklike personality added some conflict to the family.

Sansa Stark is the Stark child most similar to her father, Ned.

Anyway considering how different Lyanna, Ned, and Brandon are from one another, it's stupid to say that so-and-so is more or less "starklike". Ned and Sansa are alike, as are Lyanna and Arya. Rickon seems to favor his uncle Brandon the elder.

[inkasrain]

In fact, Martin created Arya as the true Stark. Sansa - her complete opposite - was merely added because no family is perfect, and her unstarklike personality added some conflict to the family.

Oh, please. I've never been able to comprehend why people try to divide the Stark children into "true" Starks and "Tully" (aka weak/unworthy/they just suck) Starks. All of Ned and Catelyn's children have traits from both the Tully and Stark Houses, and yes, that includes Sansa. People overlook how fiercely loyal she is to her family-- obviously after the going gets tough following Ned's execution, but even at her most naive in AGOT, Sansa still shores up her courage by reminding herself that she is "a Stark of Winterfell." Just because Sansa's "Starkness" takes a different form from Arya's (if you can call an increasing desensitization to and willingness to commit violence indicative of her being a "true Stark", which I would not) doesn't mean it isn't just as real and legitimate.

[Free Northman]

Sansa Stark is the Stark child most similar to her father, Ned.

Anyway considering how different Lyanna, Ned, and Brandon are from one another, it's stupid to say that so-and-so is more or less "starklike". Ned and Sansa are alike, as are Lyanna and Arya. Rickon seems to favor his uncle Brandon the elder.

Martin specifically stated in one of the "So Spake Martin" quotes that he created Sansa to introduce conflict into the Stark family, because no family is perfect. Hence her extremely unsympathetic portrayal in the first two books.

Also, the death of Lady, her direwolf, clearly symbolizes that she has lost a major connection to that which made her a Stark in the first place.

[Free Northman]

And her unwillingness to embrace the harsher, less glamorous life that is the heritage of the North directly contributed to her running to Cersei and spilling the beans about Ned's plans, causing his death.

Sansa's lack of "Starkness" was directly responsible for the fall of House Stark.

[inkasrain]

Martin specifically stated in one of the "So Spake Martin" quotes that he created Sansa to introduce conflict into the Stark family, because no family is perfect. Hence her extremely unsympathetic portrayal in the first two books.

Yeah. You just overflow with loathing for a twelve-year-old girl being beaten bloody by grown men in suits of armor, don't you?

Anyway, Sansa is a source of conflict in the Stark family largely because she and Arya have different personalities and therefore clash, as sisters (and brothers) have done and will do for centuries. Nothing about this conflict bespeaks anything deficient in either girl's personality or "Starkness."

Also, the death of Lady, her direwolf, clearly symbolizes that she has lost a major connection to that which made her a Stark in the first place.

No, not really. If Lady's death were thematically significant in this way, Sansa either would have died in correspondance with her wolf in AGOT or would have integrated seamlessly into the court and wasted no thoughts on her former family. Dreaming of teaching her children to hate Lannisters doesn't exactly jive with your interpretation.

Sansa's lack of "Starkness" was directly responsible for the fall of House Stark.

... Oh, never mind.

[Lord Varys]

Arya, Lyanna, and Brandon share 'the wolf blood', a Stark characteristic that makes them hot-tempered and shortsighted. But as there is no Stark besides Arya alive in this generation (maybe aside from Rickon) who share the wolf blood, I don't think this is something we should consider as the characteristic of a true Stark. Obviously most of the Starks in this series don't have the wolf blood, and they are the prototypical Starks of the series, not some people long dead.

And Arya does not just kill bad people. That sentry in Harrenhal was just a sentry, not a bad guy as far as we know. Just because you are a Bolton man, you are not bad. She kills when she thinks it's necessary to get or do what she wants, or when she thinks it's the right thing to do (Dareon), not just guys like Polliver and the Tickler.

That's not the characteristic of a good person, in my opinion. Arya may have been a good girl once, but she ceased to be it when she killed that sentry. And refusing Sandor the mercy of a quick death was also not particularly nice. She did it to make him suffer even more, and that is also not the characteristic of a good person. Especially as they fought and eat together for quite some time, and she owes Sandor her life.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Martin specifically stated in one of the "So Spake Martin" quotes that he created Sansa to introduce conflict into the Stark family, because no family is perfect. Hence her extremely unsympathetic portrayal in the first two books.

Also, the death of Lady, her direwolf, clearly symbolizes that she has lost a major connection to that which made her a Stark in the first place.

Martin only said that Sansa and Arya are foils to one another - basically opposites - and this causes conflicts. If you start by assuming that Arya is in the right and as you put it "the ultimate Stark" than, yes, Sansa would be "the ultimate non-Stark." But that's putting the cart before the horse. Sansa IS a true Stark, in the tradition of Ned Stark. Arya is also a true Stark, in the tradition of Lyanna Stark. They are both true Starks. They are as different from one another as Ned and Lyanna were from each other. Ned and Lyanna didn't come into as much conflict, I think, because they were not same-sex siblings.

And her unwillingness to embrace the harsher, less glamorous life that is the heritage of the North directly contributed to her running to Cersei and spilling the beans about Ned's plans, causing his death.

Sansa's lack of "Starkness" was directly responsible for the fall of House Stark.

I'd argue that Ned failed to embrace the harsh environment of King's Landing due to his own naivete. The fact that both of them spilled the beans emphasizes the parallel traits of Sansa and Ned.

[Free Northman]

Arya, Lyanna, and Brandon share 'the wolf blood', a Stark characteristic that makes them hot-tempered and shortsighted. But as there is no Stark besides Arya alive in this generation (maybe aside from Rickon) who share the wolf blood, I don't think this is something we should consider as the characteristic of a true Stark. Obviously most of the Starks in this series don't have the wolf blood, and they are the prototypical Starks of the series, not some people long dead.

And Arya does not just kill bad people. That sentry in Harrenhal was just a sentry, not a bad guy as far as we know. Just because you are a Bolton man, you are not bad. She kills when she thinks it's necessary to get or do what she wants, or when she thinks it's the right thing to do (Dareon), not just guys like Polliver and the Tickler.

That's not the characteristic of a good person, in my opinion. Arya may have been a good girl once, but she ceased to be it when she killed that sentry. And refusing Sandor the mercy of a quick death was also not particularly nice. She did it to make him suffer even more, and that is also not the characteristic of a good person. Especially as they fought and eat together for quite some time, and she owes Sandor her life.

The sentry was a necessary kill, in order to escape from her unjust imprisonment. It is a time of war. If your life is at stake and you face an enemy in battle, do you not kill him? You have to do what is necessary.

As for Daeron, he is an oathbreaker, and Ned himself executed oathbreakers just for being oathbreakers. Arya simply did what Ned would have done, which is do the deed herself.

I don't feel bad over one of her kills.

[Free Northman]

Martin only said that Sansa and Arya are foils to one another - basically opposites - and this causes conflicts. If you start by assuming that Arya is in the right and as you put it "the ultimate Stark" than, yes, Sansa would be "the ultimate non-Stark." But that's putting the cart before the horse. Sansa IS a true Stark, in the tradition of Ned Stark. Arya is also a true Stark, in the tradition of Lyanna Stark. They are both true Starks. They are as different from one another as Ned and Lyanna were from each other. Ned and Lyanna didn't come into as much conflict, I think, because they were not same-sex siblings.

I'd argue that Ned failed to embrace the harsh environment of King's Landing due to his own naivete. The fact that both of them spilled the beans emphasizes the parallel traits of Sansa and Ned.

What Sansa rejected , was the Spartan way of life of the North. No tournaments, no banquets, no singers, no flowery balls. No fairytale courts.

When Ned sought to take her away from King's Landing and back to the North, her desire to live a soft southern life rather than a harsher Northern one, made her run to Cersei. And that brought her House to ruin.

[Targaryen loyalist]

No, not really. If Lady's death were thematically significant in this way, Sansa either would have died in correspondance with her wolf in AGOT or would have integrated seamlessly into the court and wasted no thoughts on her former family. Dreaming of teaching her children to hate Lannisters doesn't exactly jive with your interpretation.

Well the death of Lady can be interpreted in the fact that now Sansa is no more Sansa Stark (the girl that was the owner of Lady) but Alayne, Littlefinger's daughter. At the same time, Arya also has lost her direwolf and she has also lost her identity as Arya Stark and now is "Cat of the Canals" (however Nymeria's not dead, in fact Arya hides Needle meaning that she can become Arya Stark once again in the future - probably after or before a reunion with Nymeria). Does this mean that Alayne would never become Sansa Stark again? I don't know but I don't feel to exclude it (if she'll become a scheming b***h and kills LF she might become the new Littlefinger, getting a badass nickname like "The Queen of Thorns").

[Masha]

And her unwillingness to embrace the harsher, less glamorous life that is the heritage of the North directly contributed to her running to Cersei and spilling the beans about Ned's plans, causing his death.

Sansa's lack of "Starkness" was directly responsible for the fall of House Stark.

Also I never figured out, did Sansa ever realize that she had betrayed her father and thus was partially responsible for his death and all else that befell her as a consequence of his death? I don't think she ever had a moment before and after when she thought "I betrayed my father, its my fault". When she was actually telling Cersei on her father plans, she didn't think she was betraying him, she basically didn't think at all on any consequences other than being separate from Jeffrey. After Ned's death, she was just afraid and scared of Lannisters and everyone else.

Also, when she hears LF when he argues with Lisa and then when he teaches her, there is also no moment when she puts 2 and 2 together and realizes - this led to my father's death, this led to Stark's downfall. Thats the thing that kind of puts me off Sansa, she doesn't realize the consequence of her actions while in King's Landing and while with LF, doesn't realize his involvement in her family's downfall however loudly Lisa screams the facts on her, she doesn't realize anything till someone spells it out for her.

[Songlian]

Sansa's lack of "Starkness" was directly responsible for the fall of House Stark.

I think you're overlooking a lot of things when saying that.

Her sense of justice is, in my opinion, just the usual black-and-white view most children seem to have. That's nothing special.

Agreed.

Arya and Sansa seem equally spoiled to me, just that they go for very different things. Whereas Sansa's attitude could be summed by "I want my handsome prince and I want him now", Arya's is just as demanding by saying "I want this man dead and I want it now".

What Arya has on her side is that she acts to get what she wants instead of remaining complacent in the victim's position, which Sansa does with success and is thus less sympathetic. Until AFFC, at least.

[DurararaFTW]

. When you get right down to it, through Arya we experience perhaps the only character who never succumbs to the terrors of her environment, but instead manages to exert the power of her personality no matter what tribulations she is subjected to.

Arya ha been turned into a callous, blind murderer that barely remembers her own name. No character has been more completely destroyed by the terrors of her environment then Arya is how I'd put it.

No other character goes through their character arc in a more proactive manner in spite of it all, that I'll grant her.

[inkasrain]

Well the death of Lady can be interpreted in the fact that now Sansa is no more Sansa Stark (the girl that was the owner of Lady) but Alayne, Littlefinger's daughter. At the same time, Arya also has lost her direwolf and she has also lost her identity as Arya Stark and now is "Cat of the Canals" (however Nymeria's not dead, in fact Arya hides Needle meaning that she can become Arya Stark once again in the future - probably after or before a reunion with Nymeria). Does this mean that Alayne would never become Sansa Stark again? I don't know but I don't feel to exclude it (if she'll become a scheming b***h and kills LF she might become the new Littlefinger, getting a badass nickname like "The Queen of Thorns").

But Sansa doesn't become Alayne for a very long time after Lady's death, so that change just doesn't correspond thematically. Also, Sansa's new identity is not something she took on herself, but rather a facade imposed on her by Littlefinger. Psychologically, she may pretend to be Alayne Stone, but she still has her own identity as Sansa to return to when the need for deception passes. (And I think it's unlikely that she'll remain Alayne permanently; both Littlefinger's plans and Littlefinger's lust hinge on her actual identity as the auburn-haired Sansa Stark.) This really has no connection to the loss of a direwolf or Sansa's essential Starkness.

In contrast, Arya has invented multiple identities for herself, to the point that it's hard for her to remember who and what she actually is. It's tragic, but I just don't see any connection to the living-or-dead state of her direwolf.

Also I never figured out, did Sansa ever realize that she had betrayed her father and thus was partially responsible for his death and all else that befell her as a consequence of his death? I don't think she ever had a moment before and after when she thought "I betrayed my father, its my fault". When she was actually telling Cersei on her father plans, she didn't think she was betraying him, she basically didn't think at all on any consequences other than being separate from Jeffrey. After Ned's death, she was just afraid and scared of Lannisters and everyone else.

Sansa didn't betray her father. Ned had already regurgitated his plans and secrets all over Cersei in the godswood. The only new information Sansa provided was a hint to the timeline of Ned's intentions, and her goal was nothing more or less than getting permission to stay in King's Landing.

Misguided, sure. But so far away from "betrayal" that referring to it as such pisses off the dictionary.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

What Sansa rejected , was the Spartan way of life of the North. No tournaments, no banquets, no singers, no flowery balls. No fairytale courts.

WTF? What book were you reading? Hint: Guess who we all think the Knight of the Laughing Tree was? None other than Lyanna "f-ing" Stark. "No Tournaments, no banquets" my dog's adorable fluffy butt.

Besides, Bran always wanted to be a brave knight, too - at least as much as Sansa wanted to marry a prince. We aren't wailing about his "unStarkness" though.

[Free Northman]

I don't know how anyone can dispute the thematic importance of the direwolves. I think it is clear that the direwolf connection is a massive one.

The direwolves were provided by the Old gods of the North to the 6 Stark children in the opening scene of the series. In fact, that's the first scene Martin ever envisaged of this entire story. And the way they take on the personalities of their masters are clear to see.

In fact, Catelyn - despite being of the Faith of the Seven - comes to accept before her death that the direwolves were indeed provided to her children by the gods of the North and that their fates were intertwined.

The loss of Lady is of massive significance. It effectively makes Sansa a Stark no longer. That's why Nymeria survived, despite the plot requiring Arya to spend time in the cities and thus leaving no room for Nymeria by her side. Martin retained Nymeria, because Arya will always remain a Stark, as signified by her finding Needle again despite all the odds, and then ultimately hiding Needle for later retrieval while "pretending" to become one of the Faceless Men.

In her heart, she is and always will be Arya of Winterfell.

Sansa, well, I think her fate will be different. She will probably go through a redemption arc, where she will ultimately save her House in its time of greatest need - probably by gaining access to the resources of the Vale. But she will ultimately sacrifice herself in the process, because she can never be a true Stark again. The killing of Lady means she has lost that part of herself.

The connection is supposed to be so strong that the deaths of the wolf and its master should coincide, like that of Robb and Grey Wind.

The moment Lady was lost, Sansa was lost as a Stark as well. It has to be, else it invalidates the importance of the other direwolves that are still alive. They aren't mere pets or guard dogs. They are supernaturally linked to the destinies of their masters.