Why did Shae betray Tyrion?

[Kalbear]

I think it is obvious that Cersei outbid Tyrion for Shae's loyalty.

I don't think there was a bidding war.

After Tyrion's captured Shae has two choices: stay 'loyal' to a person who no longer can pay her, is accused of treason and is in a jail cell after telling her how dangerous things are for her just for being with him, or go to the winning side.

Cersei didn't need to bid anything. Shae just went to the side that was going to win instead of fighting a hopeless battle.

The notion that Shae is stupid seems completely wrong and completely out of the books. Tyrion remarks on how clever and smart she is several times, and it's not like he wouldn't comment on her idiocy if she was.

[Errant Bard]

Shae was probably paid in something other than jewels or clothes. Say a regular salary of gold that we're not told about because it's assumed whores are paid (a Lannister always pays his debts).

A Lannister pays his debts sometimes years afterwards. Tyrion happened to have this small mishap with justice. It's a bit easy to make up something that is not in the text to go against what is explicitly in it, that is Tyrion taking back everything he had given Shae.

Tyrion took action to keep Shae safe

NO. Just no.

Tyrion took action to keep Shae near, and the safest she could be when in that place, after that. Thing is, it was definitely not safe at all.

had she felt being a maid was a huge change from her contract, she could have left at any time. Also, she gave every indication that she was still interested in sleeping with Tyrion after moving from the manse.

Yes. Shae was a gold digger, and a dumb one at that, of course she was not going to walk away as long as there was perspective to get back what Tyrion took from her. I am not sure how it is relevant.

[Hirgon]

Where did it say he paid her gold? Do you think she had an account at the Bank of Braavos where she kept this gold while she scrubbed floors? I believe Tyrion took eveything of value away from her, even her clothes when he made her start serving Lolys, so her cover wouldn't be blown. Shae told him that she wasn't cool with that, but he didn't listen. He didn't give any regard to her feelings or rights. IMO he stole from her.

ETA - Who cares if a Lannister always pays his depts? How many hookers do you know of that work for IOUs?

Did you ever see Tyrion give Bronn gold? By your reasoning, Bronn wasn't paid, either. There is no indication that Tyrion took everything Shae had, and no indication that Shae did not realize she was being protected. Shae told him she wasn't cool with it, and also said that she wanted to be his lady wife.

[Errant Bard]

The notion that Shae is stupid seems completely wrong and completely out of the books. Tyrion remarks on how clever and smart she is several times, and it's not like he wouldn't comment on her idiocy if she was.

Only in some areas. It's pretty obvious she is stupid from her behaviour, though: asking to be invited to the royal wedding, really? Mistreating the noble she has responsibility for, really? Inviting bards and stuff to her mansion? Whining about diamonds and stuff when Tyrion tries to actually hide her?

[Hirgon]

A Lannister pays his debts sometimes years afterwards. Tyrion happened to have this small mishap with justice. It's a bit easy to make up something that is not in the text to go against what is explicitly in it, that is Tyrion taking back everything he had given Shae.

By your reasoning, the only payment Bronn ever received from Tyrion was knighthood.

EDIT: Also, Tyrion not paying and Shae not demanding payment is inconsistent with both characters. If the things Tyrion took from Shae were her payment, his act of taking them away would have been met with a lot more hostility. I'm not sure there's any evidence that Shae's time in the manse was assumed permanent, and thus that those things she had there were permanent. From her "whining about diamonds," it's more likely she whined for nice things that she couldn't afford at some point, and Tyrion provided them.

NO. Just no.

Tyrion took action to keep Shae near, and the safest she could be when in that place, after that. Thing is, it was definitely not safe at all.

And Shae chose not to go to a safer place why?

Yes. Shae was a gold digger, and a dumb one at that, of course she was not going to walk away as long as there was perspective to get back what Tyrion took from her. I am not sure how it is relevant.

Not a dumb person at all, as stated several times by Tyrion (a rather intelligent character). This is relevant because there was clearly something about the arrangement that made it worth it for Shae to risk her life (if there was any risk at all).

[Hirgon]

Only in some areas. It's pretty obvious she is stupid from her behaviour, though: asking to be invited to the royal wedding, really? Mistreating the noble she has responsibility for, really? Inviting bards and stuff to her mansion? Whining about diamonds and stuff when Tyrion tries to actually hide her?

So is it Tyrion's mistreatment or Shae's "stupidity" that is to blame here? Shae could have chosen to walk away with her gold (see: Bronn not being paid) at any time. Had she not been paid that gold, how difficult would it have been to say, "Yo, dwarf. Give me my money"?

[Spring Bass]

Did you ever see Tyrion give Bronn gold? By your reasoning, Bronn wasn't paid, either. There is no indication that Tyrion took everything Shae had, and no indication that Shae did not realize she was being protected. Shae told him she wasn't cool with it, and also said that she wanted to be his lady wife.

Tyrion was likely paying him enough gold so that he could do his work and have some to spend on the side (at Chataya's in ASoS) - basically keeping him as a retainer. Paying him more would likely be unwise, since it's not like Bronn has this treasure chest that he can haul around with him. Same goes for Shae.

Shae could have chosen to walk away with her gold (see: Bronn not being paid) at any time.

I think you're looking at this from the readers' perspective, where we can see inside Tyrion's head, and know that he probably would let Shae leave him if she asked.

But Shae doesn't know that. All she knows is that she's a whore, he's the son of the most powerful lord in the Seven Kingdoms, and he is willing and able to do violence (including his right-hand-man taking her from another client at knife-point). She was probably afraid he'd have her killed or otherwise severely punished if she upset him by choosing to leave, particularly since it's increasingly obvious that he's in love with her.

[Kalbear]

Only in some areas. It's pretty obvious she is stupid from her behaviour, though: asking to be invited to the royal wedding, really? Mistreating the noble she has responsibility for, really? Inviting bards and stuff to her mansion? Whining about diamonds and stuff when Tyrion tries to actually hide her?

By that argument Tyrion was stupid because he brought Shae to court.

That seems a pretty shallow analysis.

Yes, Shae was wanting more. She wanted the good life and not to skulk around. She wanted as much as she could get. She wanted to be a lady. But no, she doesn't know how to act the part. She doesn't know not to insult or tease her superiors, she doesn't know how to deal with high society. That doesn't make her stupid, merely ignorant.

[Errant Bard]

By your reasoning, the only payment Bronn ever received from Tyrion was knighthood.

Knighthood was from Cersei, I believe.

But no, by my reasoning, we did not see Bronn being paid at all, whereas we saw Shae being paid with robes and jewels and houses, then we did not see Bronn whining about losing what he had been given, when we saw shae do that, then we did not see Bronn forced to play some lowly servant who should not have that kind of riches, where we saw Shae do that.

Bronn is irrelevant. Unless you want to tell me what Bronn would have done in Shae's place, and how Tyrion would have reacted. (oh wait, we already know that: Bronn takes Cersei's offer, throws Tyrion's last chance in his face, so he's sure to die, and Tyrion wishes him good luck in his betraying antics)

[Errant Bard]

By that argument Tyrion was stupid because he brought Shae to court.

Yes he was.

[Errant Bard]

how difficult would it have been to say, "Yo, dwarf. Give me my money"?

Not difficult, since she does it several times. Tyrion tells her to shut up, fuck him, and wait.

[Kalbear]

Yes he was.

No; that action was stupid. Tyrion isn't stupid. He's certainly not stupid like Lollys, which was the implication.

Shae was fairly naive. She was very ignorant. But she also knew when to jump ship and cut her losses and how to work things well. She knew how to be so desirable to Tyrion that he couldn't bear to be without her. She certainly knew the things he wanted to hear. She's not a stupid person, though she certainly didn't always do the wisest things. Neither did anyone in the books - Littlefinger or Varys included. That doesn't make them stupid any more than it makes her stupid.

[Hirgon]

Knighthood was from Cersei, I believe.

Marriage to Lollys (or someone?) complete with a castle was from Cersei. Knighthood was promised by Tyrion prior to the battle. Bronn is relevant because we don't see gold changing hands. If Shae was paid with gold, it would not be seen. See my edit for the explanation on Shae's manse and clothes.

[Hirgon]

Not difficult, since she does it several times. Tyrion tells her to shut up, fuck him, and wait.

False. She whines, "I want to keep these nice furnishings you put here even though they'll get me killed!" several times. Tyrion tells her it's for her own good, shut up, and keep the money.

[Monday]

And Shae chose not to go to a safer place why?

Maybe she should have, who knows. The facts are that Tyrion took her away from where he found her (her homeland?) to live in a strange city. He took away everthing of value that she had and put hert in a very dangerous position. The city is a dangerous place. At any given time in the story people are starving, murders are happening in the street, etc. We hear several times that the Kingsroad is no safe place for groups of knights, let alone a woman alone. How would she get home?

Where would she go? Tyrion has isolated her from everyone she knows. She may have been cool with that when she had money and a manse, but then he takes away her money and makes her completely dependant on him.

[Errant Bard]

No; that action was stupid. Tyrion isn't stupid. He's certainly not stupid like Lollys, which was the implication.

I'm not sure I follow you. You're arguing that Shae staying near Tyrion, wanting to go to the marriage and so on cannot be stupid because Tyrion does some stupid actions sometimes? I feel the urge to add more interrogation points.

[Errant Bard]

False. She whines, "I want to keep these nice furnishings you put here even though they'll get me killed!" several times. Tyrion tells her it's for her own good, shut up, and keep the money.

Citation, please?

[Monday]

False. She whines, "I want to keep these nice furnishings you put here even though they'll get me killed!" several times. Tyrion tells her it's for her own good, shut up, and keep the money.

I don't remember it like that. Where when does he tell her to keep the money?

ETA-Damnit Bard, quit typing faster than me :P

[Demandred]

Maybe she should have, who knows. The facts are that Tyrion took her away from where he found her (her homeland?) to live in a strange city. He took away everthing of value that she had and put hert in a very dangerous position. The city is a dangerous place. At any given time in the story people are starving, murders are happening in the street, etc. We hear several times that the Kingsroad is no safe place for groups of knights, let alone a woman alone. How would she get home?

Where would she go? Tyrion has isolated her from everyone she knows. She may have been cool with that when she had money and a manse, but then he takes away her money and makes her completely dependant on him.

Homeland? She's (or was) a camp following whore. What she got from Tyrion was a lot more than she could have hoped for.

[Alexia]

Where would she go? Tyrion has isolated her from everyone she knows. She may have been cool with that when she had money and a manse, but then he takes away her money and makes her completely dependant on him.

An excellent point. One of the things that stood out to me in terms of Tyrion's relationship with Shae was his decision to deliberately hire hideous bodyguards for her. The insecurity and petty jealousy of the act really stood out. If Shae loses her position with Tyrion, she truly has no place to go.

Also, the text does make it pretty clear that Bronn is being paid. Examples of this would be when he went to Tyrion on the off chance he might be able to double Cersei's offer, and his comments about asking how much Tyrion would offer for killing a baby. Just as the text makes it plain that Shae was being paid in silks and jewels and her maintenance.