[TV Spoilers] I'm sick of Ros

[Faint]

I suppose I am willing to concede that they could have revealed Littlefinger's back-story via some other method than the sex scene but even so, I maintain that the duel, his failure to win Catelyn's hand, and so forth, all needed to be communicated to the viewer one way or another. And honestly, Ros doesn't have that much dialogue that her inclusion bothers me or offends me in some way. The writers have basically chosen to use her as a shortcut to explain either a character's motivations and/or personality (i.e., Tyrion, Theon, and Littlefinger). Obviously, they could have used three different whores to accomplish the same task, but why bother when you can do it with one? I also think the producers of the show were worried about introducing too many characters and confusing the reader about whether they were important or not. That said, they have now made it seem to those that have not read the book that Ros is at least slightly important so it would be bizarre if they simply stripped her from the series now. So I'm actually hoping that she replaces Chataya and/or Alayaya at this point. It would make the television story tighter, not force feed yet another new character to the uninitiated, and justify the prominence of Ros so far.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

I suppose I am willing to concede that they could have revealed Littlefinger's back-story via some other method than the sex scene but even so, I maintain that the duel, his failure to win Catelyn's hand, and so forth, all needed to be communicated to the viewer one way or another. And honestly, Ros doesn't have that much dialogue that her inclusion bothers me or offends me in some way. The writers have basically chosen to use her as a shortcut to explain either a character's motivations and/or personality (i.e., Tyrion, Theon, and Littlefinger). Obviously, they could have used three different whores to accomplish the same task, but why bother when you can do it with one? I also think the producers of the show were worried about introducing too many characters and confusing the reader about whether they were important or not. That said, they have now made it seem to those that have not read the book that Ros is at least slightly important so it would be bizarre if they simply stripped her from the series now. So I'm actually hoping that she replaces Chataya and/or Alayaya at this point. It would make the television story tighter, not force feed yet another new character to the uninitiated, and justify the prominence of Ros so far.

Re: Littlefinger's duel. This was actually the second time that it's discussed (and both times in that brothel, no less!), but if so many people glossed over the first discussion, or the it was too vague, I can understand needing to spell it out in more detail. I do agree with those saying that LF would never be so careless as to discuss Cat so seriously in public, though. He would still be playing the affable man doing Ned favours for Cat's sake, I would think.

As for replacing Chataya and/or Alayaya, that does seem to be the direction they're going, but I hope they don't. But then I am also holding out hope for Jalabhar Xho next season, as well as Quhuru Mo and Kojjo Mo later on, so I'm biased. ;)

[Balefont]

I actually don't have as much of a problem with the character as many, pudenda shots included, and I certainly have nothing against the actress. But I do feel as though they're setting her up to be a major secondary character, and I haven't heard a satisfying explanation as to why.

<3

[Steve the Pirate]

I suppose I am willing to concede that they could have revealed Littlefinger's back-story via some other method than the sex scene but even so, I maintain that the duel, his failure to win Catelyn's hand, and so forth, all needed to be communicated to the viewer one way or another. And honestly, Ros doesn't have that much dialogue that her inclusion bothers me or offends me in some way. The writers have basically chosen to use her as a shortcut to explain either a character's motivations and/or personality (i.e., Tyrion, Theon, and Littlefinger). Obviously, they could have used three different whores to accomplish the same task, but why bother when you can do it with one? I also think the producers of the show were worried about introducing too many characters and confusing the reader about whether they were important or not. That said, they have now made it seem to those that have not read the book that Ros is at least slightly important so it would be bizarre if they simply stripped her from the series now. So I'm actually hoping that she replaces Chataya and/or Alayaya at this point. It would make the television story tighter, not force feed yet another new character to the uninitiated, and justify the prominence of Ros so far.

I agree with everything you say here.

I find it a bit ridiculous that people are like, "Explain to me why she has these scenes." You know, it's a TV show, you're supposed to watch it and learn for yourself about the characters. I feel like the show runners have been so giving to the fan community that people have begun to feel entitled, as if D&D owe them explanations for every change. And they don't. Watch the show, or don't watch it, it's your call. But there are many reasons for Ros's scenes and her possible future on the show. She makes sense. The fact that Esme Bianco is stunningly beautiful and yes, free with the nudity, is just a bonus.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

But there are many reasons for Ros's scenes and her possible future on the show.

Which are what, leaving out her beauty and willingness to get naked, as you've already been willing to exclude them? Conjecture is still conjecture, whether it's coming from a "yay Ros" or a "why Ros" camp.

[Tywin's bastard]

Re: Littlefinger's duel. This was actually the second time that it's discussed (and both times in that brothel, no less!), but if so many people glossed over the first discussion, or the it was too vague, I can understand needing to spell it out in more detail. I do agree with those saying that LF would never be so careless as to discuss Cat so seriously in public, though. He would still be playing the affable man doing Ned favours for Cat's sake, I would think.

As for replacing Chataya and/or Alayaya, that does seem to be the direction they're going, but I hope they don't. But then I am also holding out hope for Jalabhar Xho next season, as well as Quhuru Mo and Kojjo Mo later on, so I'm biased. ;)

The first time they talk about Littlefinger and Brandon is actually in the first meeting of the small council. That scene introduces four new characters and I think non-readers found it difficult to even remember those characters' names, let alone the details of everything they discussed, so I don't think it's too much to mention it again.

[sedeyus]

I agree with everything you say here.

I find it a bit ridiculous that people are like, "Explain to me why she has these scenes." You know, it's a TV show, you're supposed to watch it and learn for yourself about the characters. I feel like the show runners have been so giving to the fan community that people have begun to feel entitled, as if D&D owe them explanations for every change. And they don't. Watch the show, or don't watch it, it's your call. But there are many reasons for Ros's scenes and her possible future on the show. She makes sense. The fact that Esme Bianco is stunningly beautiful and yes, free with the nudity, is just a bonus.

And I'm getting annoyed that any criticism of the show keeps getting brushed aside with some version of, "There will be changes. Deal with it!" I understand that things will different from book to show. I still reserve the right to criticize something that isn't working. Roz scenes aren't working. I'm not saying they're deal-breakers, I still enjoy most of the show. But this idea that we should keep our mouths shut and take whatever they give us is frustrating.

[Balefont]

And I'm getting annoyed that any criticism of the show keeps getting brushed aside with some versions, "There will be changes. Deal with it!" I understand that things will different from book to show. I still reserve the right to critize something that isn't working. Roz scenes aren't working. I'm not saying they're deal-breakers, I still enjoy most of the show. But this idea that we should keep our mouths shut and take what ever they give us is frustrating.

Yup.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

The first time they talk about Littlefinger and Brandon is actually in the first meeting of the small council. That scene introduces four new characters and I think non-readers found it difficult to even remember those characters' names, let alone the details of everything they discussed, so I don't think it's too much to mention it again.

Okay, then I'm misremembering when/where it occurred. I also agree that it wasn't too much to mention it again, given that I found it odd-but-remarkable that most viewers -- including readers -- seem to think that the monologue in front of Ros and the "wherever you're from"-i woman was the first mention of the past history with Ned's brother. :shrug:

[Kalbear]

It's also a bit frustrating to me that almost any exposition we get is in a sex scene. There are some that haven't been - such as the Robert/Cersei scene - but so much of the exposition has been while fucking.

I guess that's one way to make sure that book readers are entertained - if you don't need the exposition here's some tits. But it feels very unnatural and staged, and the random bits of sex in it make that feeling worse for me.

[Morrigan]

And I'm getting annoyed that any criticism of the show keeps getting brushed aside with some version of, "There will be changes. Deal with it!" I understand that things will different from book to show. I still reserve the right to criticize something that isn't working. Roz scenes aren't working. I'm not saying they're deal-breakers, I still enjoy most of the show. But this idea that we should keep our mouths shut and take whatever they give us is frustrating.

This.

It's also a bit frustrating to me that almost any exposition we get is in a sex scene. There are some that haven't been - such as the Robert/Cersei scene - but so much of the exposition has been while fucking.

I guess that's one way to make sure that book readers are entertained - if you don't need the exposition here's some tits. But it feels very unnatural and staged, and the random bits of sex in it make that feeling worse for me.

And this.

[Basileus777]

It's also a bit frustrating to me that almost any exposition we get is in a sex scene. There are some that haven't been - such as the Robert/Cersei scene - but so much of the exposition has been while fucking.

I guess that's one way to make sure that book readers are entertained - if you don't need the exposition here's some tits. But it feels very unnatural and staged, and the random bits of sex in it make that feeling worse for me.

I completely agree. They've used this method far too many times and it has become stale and a bit irritating. A few sexpositions scenes would have been fine, but they've gone to that well too much. Ros' character is annoying because she is less a character and more a plot device to hide exposition.

[Steve the Pirate]

That's an incredibly defensive response from the lot of you. I didn't comment on any other criticisms, did I? Criticism is fine, but I was addressing the person who was commenting that they wanted an explanation for Ros's increased presence, which is frankly absurd. Why on earth would you expect the producers to explain to you why a role had been created, and what that role's future would be? Maybe they will discuss it, maybe they won't. But the air of entitlement in here stinks.

[Blackfish Blues]

What you're describing doesn't really have anything to do with suspension of disbelief though, it just has to do with letting your baggage get in the way of your own immersion, something I'd wager most readers have struggled with to varying degrees. There's a lot of difference between thinking that a new character is done well or poorly (a subjective view that you can't fully control), and thinking that creating new things is inherently bad (in my opinion the wrong kind of attitude for your own good). In my opinion the viewer has 50% of the responsibility for a good viewing experience.

Personally I don't mind the character much as I don't really have any strong feelings in either way for it. No scene she's has really anything to do with her so she's not really taking up plot property and I'm usually neither bothered nor excited by sex scenes. It's a natural thing.

It has everything to do with suspension of disbelief. If you mean that suspension of disbelief is subjective, I agree. But I think my failure to suspend disbelief in the presence of Roz is just as valid as the next viewer's.

I might have forgotten to point out one thing, that she is the ONLY NEW CHARACTER enjoying this exposition. I'm not opposed to new stuff per se; I think I've loved most additions. To me, Roz stands out like a sore thumb. I do agree (and I think I've said it in my previous post) that we book readers have to deal with more expectations and prejudices than new viewers. If she had been called Alayaya from the beginning, say, I would have had much less reserves about her.

I get the contrary impression. Rather than just being an object, which I suspect most whores would be around nobles, she shows spirit and is unusually bold and sharp-tongued (which you could see as a tiny bit of the Arya syndrome). To me Doreah is more of an object as she's more focused on her place and what she's supposed to do (pleasing others). I don't think it has much to do with a free woman compared to a slave either, seeing how the medieval low commoners were free mainly in theory.

This is a good point, and one that I've already discussed elsewhere. Is Roz offensive to women or not? I'd love to hear more female opinions. I'm a woman and I find her offensive because in every single scene she's in she trivializes her femininity and is for all intents and purposes an object to allow male characters to express themselves. But this, I admit, is a pet peeve of mine, and I have no problem with divergent AND intelligent opinions.

I hope the Roslin is in every single episode from now on. Not necessarily because she is astonishingly good looking but for all the amusing rage posts on this board. It is really hilarious to read all the enraged yet helpless comments here and all the clamour of how the integration of a single character that was not in the books is a personal insult to every true fan. In fact it is so amusing that I have created an account for these boards.

Hello Vvion, and welcome to the boards! A couple of things:

1. Roslin = Roslin Frey for a lot of us; you're breaking my suspension of disbelief by calling Roz thus. :P

2. Your comments "amusing rage posts"... "really hilarious to read all the enraged yet helpless comments"... "a personal insult to every true fan"... border on the trollish, as though everybody else's opinion was a matter of derision for you. I'm sure that's not the case. I'm not a mod (luckily for the boards) but I realize how posters need to find a way to express themselves that does not grate on most of other posters. I've learned it quite early, having had to curb my fangirl tendencies.

Now that this is out of the way:

3) It breaks my suspension of disbelief!

- Why does it do this? Because you know that these scenes aren't in the books or because they don't fit in the fictional world of Westeros? I can't believe that it is the latter. These scenes could have been in the books without ruining the whole experience or being out of place (and if there were fitting POVs). Nobody would complain about the book if GRRM had put the Roslin scenes in AGoT. They might create some minor inconsistencies but not substantially more than in the rest of the books. If the only reason why Roslin is ruining your experience is that you know that she is not in the books, than that is your problem and not bad screenwriting.

That's me, I guess. Why does it break my suspension of disbelief? For neither of the reasons you've stated. As I said above, my problem is that she is the only new character receiving this treatment. And that I consider such a character to be an offensive portrayal of women. I could live with either of these complaints, but both of them together are too much for me.

[Basileus777]

That's an incredibly defensive response from the lot of you. I didn't comment on any other criticisms, did I? Criticism is fine, but I was addressing the person who was commenting that they wanted an explanation for Ros's increased presence, which is frankly absurd. Why on earth would you expect the producers to explain to you why a role had been created, and what that role's future would be? Maybe they will discuss it, maybe they won't. But the air of entitlement in here stinks.

You're greatly exaggerating what's going on here. Who is actually expecting a response from the writers? It's a television show, people are free to critique and even nitpick it if they want. I don't see how your appeal to authority addresses anyone's criticisms.

And I don't really see any air of entitlement going on in this thread right now.

[Eponine]

I'm sick of her as well, as it is really a caricature to believe that this women is privy to Jon's, Theon's, Tyrion's, and Petyr Baelish's secret thoughts/important moments of their lives. Likely she was Robb's first woman as well.

She's the inn at the crossroads of whores.

I'm not a fan of Ros insofar as if I had to choose, I wouldn't have her in so many scenes, but I don't find that she's one of my main dislikes or that her added presence sticks out to me all that much.

I will be disappointed if she replaces Chataya.

I think it's a legitimate complaint that a new character who adds nothing to the plot except a chance for exposition has had as much or more screen time than some of the main characters. There are so many minor characters who do have a part in the plot that it seems unnecessary to add yet another character. Even if Ros is going to replace Chataya, there would be no reason to have much of an introduction to Chataya beyond that she's the owner of a high class brothel in KL - it's already been explicitly stated that LF, Varys and Cersei have spies and allies in the city.

[NW Deserter]

Surprised to see so many strong reactions to the inclusion of Ros in the show.

I personally am enjoying her addition, as a reader of the books it gives me something fresh to follow. Every other storyline in the show I already know the ending to, so this gives me something to ponder about.

[Morrigan]

What is there to ponder about? All she ever does so far is giggle and get naked.

[NW Deserter]

Sorry to say but with a response like that, you just sound like someone who has an inherent bias against book deviations. Which isn't bad but it's gonna make any discussion about this character go nowhere.

To answer your question, it'd ponderable because of the reasons people have already been listing - she's "known" half the male main character and has gotten more screen time than some of the minor characters we love from the book. It's obvious, to me anyway, that she'll have some purpose. If it turns out she doesn't, I'll bite my words and admit to my first real disappointment with this HBO team.

[Balefont]

The books already have enough purposeful characters without the need to invent new ones for the show.