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The quote that sums up how bad Dany is


Smashing Praise

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While I watched the scene where Viserys is killed on HBO last week, I found myself feeling ill. Dany just watches as her brother, her last living relative who has spent his whole life caring for her, killed my savages because of a drunken threat. This reminded me how I could never truly like Danaerys, let alone Drogo. A couple days later, I was rereading Clash and came across this quote which made my stomach turn.

While describing how to name her dragons, she tells Jorah "Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not."

Weak? Frightened? Who are you, Danaerys? Who were you a few months ago? What did you do when Viserys tried to restore your family to greatness? You cried like a little girl and wanted to go home. What did you do on your wedding night? You sat in fear instead of facing your troubles like a woman. If Viserys is so weak, why did you let him touch you? Why did you follow his every word? If you were a strong woman and thought this, you'd carve out your own path in life.

And then you marry a savage, and all of the sudden you're all high and mighty. You're the Khaleesi, better than your poor brother who is legal heir to the throne. Dany swells with pride after she becomes a horse lord's whore, even though she has done nothing of merit in her life, and she would not even be in the position if not for Viserys or Illyrio, who she never thanks once. If she is no longer weak and frightened, it is only because she fell into thousands of savages that mindlessly worship who she is because of her husband. And then you watch as your husband, a murdering, pillaging, raping savage, prepare to kill your last brother in a brutal and painful way, the brother you would not be here if not for, and she does nothing. She does not request he is imprisoned, or sent back to Illyrio. She simply watches.

And then after he is dead, she brags to Jorah about her pathetic brother, while she has exhibited many times those qualities. This quote is more disillusioned and egocentric than anything characters like Jaime or Theon has ever said. And this is why I can't even respect Danaerys.

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While I watched the scene where Viserys is killed on HBO last week, I found myself feeling ill. Dany just watches as her brother, her last living relative who has spent his whole life caring for her, killed my savages because of a drunken threat. This reminded me how I could never truly like Danaerys, let alone Drogo. A couple days later, I was rereading Clash and came across this quote which made my stomach turn.

While describing how to name her dragons, she tells Jorah "Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not."

Weak? Frightened? Who are you, Danaerys? Who were you a few months ago? What did you do when Viserys tried to restore your family to greatness? You cried like a little girl and wanted to go home. What did you do on your wedding night? You sat in fear instead of facing your troubles like a woman. If Viserys is so weak, why did you let him touch you? Why did you follow his every word? If you were a strong woman and thought this, you'd carve out your own path in life.

And then you marry a savage, and all of the sudden you're all high and mighty. You're the Khaleesi, better than your poor brother who is legal heir to the throne. Dany swells with pride after she becomes a horse lord's whore, even though she has done nothing of merit in her life, and she would not even be in the position if not for Viserys or Illyrio, who she never thanks once. If she is no longer weak and frightened, it is only because she fell into thousands of savages that mindlessly worship who she is because of her husband. And then you watch as your husband, a murdering, pillaging, raping savage, prepare to kill your last brother in a brutal and painful way, the brother you would not be here if not for, and she does nothing. She does not request he is imprisoned, or sent back to Illyrio. She simply watches.

And then after he is dead, she brags to Jorah about her pathetic brother, while she has exhibited many times those qualities. This quote is more disillusioned and egocentric than anything characters like Jaime or Theon has ever said. And this is why I can't even respect Danaerys.

I honestly don't like either of them...but I'll take Dany over Viserys ANY day

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I honestly don't like either of them...but I'll take Dany over Viserys ANY day

I feel the same way, but I pity Viserys. He has given Dany plenty in life - he's basically her father. If I had to go through what Vis did, I'd be just as crazy.

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Well that was refreshingly unrestrained.

I think you might be overlooking a few things. 1) Yes, Viserys did look after Dany to some extent, but he was also very cruel towards her his whole life. 2) Just before his murder, Viserys threatened to cut her open and kill her unborn child. 3) Dany may have been weak and frightened a few months before, but she does change. By the time she says that line to Jorah, she's walked into a fire, come out unscathed, and birthed the first dragons in living memory,.

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Dany swells with pride after she becomes a horse lord's whore,

It might be futile to point this out, but Daenerys was Drogo's wife, not his whore, and its actually kind of misogynistic to say that a woman is her husband's whore.
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Assuming that your post isn't sarcastic:

She was a 13 year old girl sold by her brother to a huge barbarian for the promise of warriors. She is frightened because she has never known anything else in her life. Her brother, who was six years her senior, ruled over her completely, and filled her head with fear. Fear of the Usurper's knives (a delusion - Robert told Ned that Jon Arryn convinced him to leave them be), and fear of him. She is a fearful girl at the beginning of the story, and is sold to this frightening warlord by her brother for his own benefit. That she makes the best of her situation, and came out of it stronger is no reflection on her brother, but on her. She owes neither Viserys or Illyrio thanks for putting her in that position.

And she is better than her brother. She adapts to her surroundings while her brother just bitches and moans and boasts about the power in his blood. She earned Drogo's respect and love the hard way, but she did it on her own. She's not a favorite of mine, but she earned what she had when the khal was alive, and she earned everything she had after he died.

Viserys had the exact same opportunity that she did, but he refused to acclimate himself to the Dothraki culture and outed himself to them as a pathetic wretch. He was killed by Drogo because he betrayed their custom and bared steel in their holy city, and he also threatened to kill the khal's wife and son at swordpoint. Danaerys tried to calm him down, but he kept on and got himself killed. Everything that happened to Viserys in AGOT was his own doing.

Danaerys was weak and frightened when she was a 13 year old girl caught up in a frightening situation. Viserys was weak and frightened and cruel from the first moment we meet him in the books to the time that he died.

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The OP makes several faulty assumptions:

- that Dany is expressing contempt for Viserys' weakness, rather than recognising that all his bad behaviour was caused by fear.

- that Dany does not acknowledge that she herself was weak and frightened once.

- that Dany has achieved nothing on her own.

It also fails to recognise that Dany tried to stop Viserys before things went bad. She didn't stop Drogo because she knew it was too late. Maybe she should have tried anyway, but I think that would have made a bad situation worse.

But it's true that Dany is a hard woman. That's one of the best things about her character.

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Smashing Praise -

As Mormont points out, Dany was reared by her brother.

While she is somewhat kinder than he, she has no female role model in her life. Undoubtedly, there were some women in the house with the red door and the lemon tree, but she wasn't there long,

It seems you have written your post based on HBO. The series, though beautiful, cannot give you the character development, there is not enough time. I am not a Dany fan. But I urge you to read the books and make a decision.

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I'm not a fan of Dany, and I do think she failed with her brother, but I don't think his death was her fault, or that she was happy about it.

Like Mormont said, I think that quote was more in sadness and sympathy/pity, than as an insult. She knew her brother was flawed, but she also believes in his obsession with the throne; naming a dragon for him was honouring his memory.

Vis is a character easier to understand after he's dead, when you realize how alone he was, and how desperate he was. Remember, unlike Dany, he remembered his family's destruction.

Dany's failure, btw, was that she never forced him to see reason or the realities of what she had become and where he was.

The guy was always doomed, had he stayed in Pentos, he still likely would have been "removed" in favour of Dany or her son.

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OMG! Has the OP been reading a completely different series to me??

Visrys was an evil little shit. Okay maybe I'm painting him harshly but it's still true. Yes he was frightened, paranoid, and probably inherited his father's madness. But he was also incredibly cruel to Dany and basically sold her to Drogo for an army (or al least that's what he thought he was doing).

He is also very stupid firstly for not undertanding the true nature of his bargain with Drogo, for making no attempt to learn anything about the Dothraki, and for constantly acting like he has the power of the seven kingdoms when he has none of it.

His death was brutal I'll admit but he brought on himself by constantly pushing Drogo, basically treating him like a subject and finally threatening to kill his wife and unborn child, and drawing his sword in Vaes Dothrak. Even someone with half a brain could probably figure out that's it's not a great idea to threaten someone like Drogo.

Also Dany is NOT a whore. Perhaps you need to check your dictionary as that definition seems to have escaped you.

Comparing her to Theon and Jaime, seriiously I don't where the hell you're getting that from.

Dany is smarter than Theon and Jaime put together. She's got herself dragons, an army and conquered 3 three cities all by her own initiative. Theon couldn't even hold Winterfell and made a complete mess of the whole thing.

Dany does not even seem hate Viserys, which I found astonishing. Despite all he put her through she still has some fond memories of him

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Hey, a man has a right to choose his own death. Not really Dany's place to interfere with Viserys' suicide. Which walking into a Khal's tent in Vaes Dothrak, pulling a blade and threatening his wife and child certainly is.

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While I watched the scene where Viserys is killed on HBO last week, I found myself feeling ill. Dany just watches as her brother, her last living relative who has spent his whole life caring for her, killed my savages because of a drunken threat. This reminded me how I could never truly like Danaerys, let alone Drogo. A couple days later, I was rereading Clash and came across this quote which made my stomach turn.

While describing how to name her dragons, she tells Jorah "Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not."

Weak? Frightened? Who are you, Danaerys? Who were you a few months ago? What did you do when Viserys tried to restore your family to greatness?

She was, indeed, a scared little girl. And then she grew up. Viserys, on the other hand, never grew up and remained a scared little girl until he died.

And then you marry a savage, and all of the sudden you're all high and mighty. You're the Khaleesi, better than your poor brother who is legal heir to the throne.

And now I know you're trolling, and not very skillfully at that. You really shouldn't point out that the biggest Viserys' achievement was getting conceived by Aerys' sperm.

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Well, this is going to be a doozy to respond to.

Well that was refreshingly unrestrained.

I think you might be overlooking a few things. 1) Yes, Viserys did look after Dany to some extent, but he was also very cruel towards her his whole life. 2) Just before his murder, Viserys threatened to cut her open and kill her unborn child. 3) Dany may have been weak and frightened a few months before, but she does change. By the time she says that line to Jorah, she's walked into a fire, come out unscathed, and birthed the first dragons in living memory,.

Cruel, yes, but he could have left her to die instead of feeding her, finding shelter for her, etc. The point I am trying to make is that Dany never seems to reciprocate this - she basically expects him to go Dothraki while she is off doing her own thing. Viserys was drunk and crazed - he definitely needed punishment, but not a cruel death. Like I said before, if Dany actually cared for her brother and father figure, she should have begged the Khal to send him back to Pentos. And for the last statement, I do not consider that an achievement - it was an act of madness, with no calculated risk vs. reward - she just did something dumb and got lucky.

It might be futile to point this out, but Daenerys was Drogo's wife, not his whore, and its actually kind of misogynistic to say that a woman is her husband's whore.

I am being quite facetious when I say this, as Dany herself is no whore. I just disrepect the Dothraki culture in general (polygamy, rape culture, etc) - it is no slight to her at all, as she is most definitely a faithful woman.

Assuming that your post isn't sarcastic:

She was a 13 year old girl sold by her brother to a huge barbarian for the promise of warriors. She is frightened because she has never known anything else in her life. Her brother, who was six years her senior, ruled over her completely, and filled her head with fear. Fear of the Usurper's knives (a delusion - Robert told Ned that Jon Arryn convinced him to leave them be), and fear of him. She is a fearful girl at the beginning of the story, and is sold to this frightening warlord by her brother for his own benefit. That she makes the best of her situation, and came out of it stronger is no reflection on her brother, but on her. She owes neither Viserys or Illyrio thanks for putting her in that position.

And she is better than her brother. She adapts to her surroundings while her brother just bitches and moans and boasts about the power in his blood. She earned Drogo's respect and love the hard way, but she did it on her own. She's not a favorite of mine, but she earned what she had when the khal was alive, and she earned everything she had after he died.

Viserys had the exact same opportunity that she did, but he refused to acclimate himself to the Dothraki culture and outed himself to them as a pathetic wretch. He was killed by Drogo because he betrayed their custom and bared steel in their holy city, and he also threatened to kill the khal's wife and son at swordpoint. Danaerys tried to calm him down, but he kept on and got himself killed. Everything that happened to Viserys in AGOT was his own doing.

Danaerys was weak and frightened when she was a 13 year old girl caught up in a frightening situation. Viserys was weak and frightened and cruel from the first moment we meet him in the books to the time that he died.

Being "sold" is common even in Westeros - she is a high born woman, it is not her place to argue who she marries. My point is that when she overcomes her fears, it is only because she has thousands of warriors and her beck and call - why not be fearless when you are completely untouchable? And I stand by my point with Vis and Illyrio - no matter how well she has adapted, she would not be married to the Khal if not for them. She would be no one. I am not defending Viserys's actions - he was a fool and mentally disturbed. I suppose my original post did not get that out. But I pity him, especially because the woman he raised turned her back on him.

The OP makes several faulty assumptions:

- that Dany is expressing contempt for Viserys' weakness, rather than recognising that all his bad behaviour was caused by fear.

- that Dany does not acknowledge that she herself was weak and frightened once.

- that Dany has achieved nothing on her own.

It also fails to recognise that Dany tried to stop Viserys before things went bad. She didn't stop Drogo because she knew it was too late. Maybe she should have tried anyway, but I think that would have made a bad situation worse.

But it's true that Dany is a hard woman. That's one of the best things about her character.

I find it in quite bad taste to bring up her brother's fear and weakness in any capacity when she herself was more scared and weak than he during that time. It is the "pot calling the kettle black." And I still do not see how, at that point in the story, Dan has achieved a single thing. That was made most obvious when the Khal died - everyone deserted her for the nothing she was to them. All the rituals and worshiping of her husband accomplished nothing. And birthing dragons was not an accomplishment, but luck. If I won the lottery, would you have considered me accomplished something?

Smashing Praise -

As Mormont points out, Dany was reared by her brother.

While she is somewhat kinder than he, she has no female role model in her life. Undoubtedly, there were some women in the house with the red door and the lemon tree, but she wasn't there long,

It seems you have written your post based on HBO. The series, though beautiful, cannot give you the character development, there is not enough time. I am not a Dany fan. But I urge you to read the books and make a decision.

I have read all the books multiple times, hence why I specified in my original post that I was rereading Clash. I do not know where you infer that I haven't.

I'm not a fan of Dany, and I do think she failed with her brother, but I don't think his death was her fault, or that she was happy about it.

Like Mormont said, I think that quote was more in sadness and sympathy/pity, than as an insult. She knew her brother was flawed, but she also believes in his obsession with the throne; naming a dragon for him was honouring his memory.

Vis is a character easier to understand after he's dead, when you realize how alone he was, and how desperate he was. Remember, unlike Dany, he remembered his family's destruction.

Dany's failure, btw, was that she never forced him to see reason or the realities of what she had become and where he was.

The guy was always doomed, had he stayed in Pentos, he still likely would have been "removed" in favour of Dany or her son.

I agree with the fact that Dany never tried hard enough to make Viserys see how things really were - Viserys is obviously mentally ill, and now that Dany is in a position of power she should have strived to find a way to help him. The books have really no evidence of this that I can recall, and whenever he lashes out, she just finds some way to punish him and forgets, instead of trying to help him at a later time. Dany is not to blame for his death, exactly - but there is so much she could have done. And yes, Viserys was probably always screwed. Even if the Dothraki invaded in his name and Drogo never died, I doubt they would have won.

OMG! Has the OP been reading a completely different series to me??

Visrys was an evil little shit. Okay maybe I'm painting him harshly but it's still true. Yes he was frightened, paranoid, and probably inherited his father's madness. But he was also incredibly cruel to Dany and basically sold her to Drogo for an army (or al least that's what he thought he was doing).

He is also very stupid firstly for not undertanding the true nature of his bargain with Drogo, for making no attempt to learn anything about the Dothraki, and for constantly acting like he has the power of the seven kingdoms when he has none of it.

His death was brutal I'll admit but he brought on himself by constantly pushing Drogo, basically treating him like a subject and finally threatening to kill his wife and unborn child, and drawing his sword in Vaes Dothrak. Even someone with half a brain could probably figure out that's it's not a great idea to threaten someone like Drogo.

Also Dany is NOT a whore. Perhaps you need to check your dictionary as that definition seems to have escaped you.

Comparing her to Theon and Jaime, seriiously I don't where the hell you're getting that from.

Dany is smarter than Theon and Jaime put together. She's got herself dragons, an army and conquered 3 three cities all by her own initiative. Theon couldn't even hold Winterfell and made a complete mess of the whole thing.

Dany does not even seem hate Viserys, which I found astonishing. Despite all he put her through she still has some fond memories of him

Evil? You do realize that he shows many signs of being mentally infirm? Do the mentally ill strike you as evil? He "sold" her just like Hoster Tully sold Catelyn and Lysa - it isn't selling, it is the culture of this world. Someone with half a brain, yes, but someone drunk and insane? No. Dany should have helped him far prior to this or had him sent away, but she didn't, and still didn't in the face of his death.

And Jaime and Theon have not been as splendidly lucky as Danaerys has. They did not receieve priceless dragon eggs. They did not magically hatch them (which you claim is a "smart" act.) And she conquered three cities that gave her little to no real opposition with an army that she stole in a laughable predictable manner as according to her usual deux ex machina actions. Jaime is an extremely accomplished general who does not have dragons and Unsullied, and Theon took Winterfell is an extremely clever plan, but was just too prideful to burn it to the ground and take Starks as hostages. Their "wins" are all the more positive for the simple fact that they are not favored by luck, but skill and wit.

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She was, indeed, a scared little girl. And then she grew up. Viserys, on the other hand, never grew up and remained a scared little girl until he died.

And now I know you're trolling, and not very skillfully at that. You really shouldn't point out that the biggest Viserys' achievement was getting conceived by Aerys' sperm.

I suppose I have not made it clear enough that I do not support Viserys or anything he did. This is a thread about Dany and her treatment and feeling of superiority. My sole opinion on Viserys is that he a sad and mentally disturbed man who needs help that no one will ever give him. And I'm glad you think my "trolling" is some sort of skillful, just not very.

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OP, I'm sorry, but you're either completely unfair and biased, or you choose to deliberately ignore the facts.

While describing how to name her dragons, she tells Jorah "Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not."

Exactly which part of the "horrific" quote in incorrect? That Viserys was cruel? Check. That he was weak? Check. Frightened? Check. That Viserys was her brother? Check. That his dragon will don what he could not (i.e. something useful)? Check.

What did you do on your wedding night? You sat in fear instead of facing your troubles like a woman.

If you are 13 year old expecting to be raped in a few hours, I dare you say you would nt fear and face your troubles like a man.

If Viserys is so weak, why did you let him touch you? Why did you follow his every word?

Maybe, just maybe, because Viserys would smack her around if she tried to do otherwise.

If you were a strong woman and thought this, you'd carve out your own path in life.

And then you marry a savage, and all of the sudden you're all high and mighty. You're the Khaleesi, better than your poor brother who is legal heir to the throne.

And here you're contradiciting yourself. When she finnaly had a chance to "carve out your own path in life", you accuse her of being high and mighty. Lets face it, even after she became Khaleesi, she tried to be kind to her brother (offering him shirt, generally making suggestions how he could better fit in Dothraki society). Viserys was "high and mighty" one.

Dany swells with pride after she becomes a horse lord's whore

As someone already noted, you speak like ghost of Viserys here. She was his wife, who even eventually earned his respect (not an easy thing to do, I imagine), not his whore.

...prepare to kill your last brother in a brutal and painful way, the brother you would not be here if not for, and she does nothing

Said brother held her at sword point and threatened to cut her stomach in "brutal and painful way".

There's much more, but others already covered it up.

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