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The Mad Genius Of Petyr Baelish


The_Halfhand

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I think the thing that's most fascinating about Petyr is he is the only character that has yet to reveal a weakness, or even an underlying motive at all. Even Varys is unwise to his motives, and even seems worried when Informing Illyrio of His lack of knowledge of Petyrs motives. And Varys is now sent underground thanks to helping Tyrion escape, and Petyr still grasps to power at the Vale. Peter is the only one who consistently wins at this Game of Thrones, and seems to be the only character that has been consistent in the novels, which make me think that GRRM will reveal some sort of weakness that Petyr has, to show that he's the gray character that GRRM loves to create. For now, he is just a manipulator and that is what makes me certain something major is going to happen to thwart or completely change the motive of plan.

But I really love the thought he may be trying to end the feudal system, and this would be a very interesting turn, but would mean he would not turn power to Dany when she arrives from Essos. Unless he convinces her to change the way of government in Westeros, playing to her sympathy with common people who are wronged which was evident in her insistence on free Slaver's Bay. Now that would be a twist I could root for.

His weakness has already started to show. In part due to his vanity and desire for Sansa, he is divulging so much to her, way more than he needs her to know. In terms of what he wants, I think that is pretty clear from all his actions, down to his adoption of the new mockingbird sigil, he wants to build a great house.

The idea of him trying to abolish the feudal system, would turn out to be a fascinating twist, after all he has the motivations to do so though his actions to date seems to show he has taken the mentality of if you can't beat them, join them.

I do believe like many that Sansa would be his downfall, he will somehow push her over the edge probably through his desire for her though Varys will have a bigger hand in the whole episode.

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I don't think adopting the Mockingbird symbol is a sign of vanity.

His family's crest of the Titan's head not only marks them as foreigners, but is also quite intimidating. The Mockingbird is small, inoffensive, and presumably native to Westeros.

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What if Robert of the Vale is LF son

What if LF goal is to get Robert Kingship of all of Westeros

What If LF is the actual cause of Robert sickness

If Robert is Sickly all the people that support Harry the heir would come out of the shadows

If LF promise Sansa to Harry his guard would be down

If LF kills Harry the Heir and Robert is feeling better he could betrothal him to Sansa

Robert/Sansa would have Strong Claims to the North/Riverlands/Vale which they can build up power

Now with infighting starting to happen between Dorne/Westerlands/Reach/and the invasion their is no one to stop them

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His weakness has already started to show. In part due to his vanity and desire for Sansa, he is divulging so much to her, way more than he needs her to know.

I've been thinking about why he revealed so much information to Sansa and it seems it can only be one of two things. Either like you said he's revealing information to her because he has a weakness for her or it could be that he's revealing information to her in a very calculated manner that is all part of his greater plan. Telling her about his plan to marry her to Harry and take back the North is designed to keep her under his control as long as she believes that he has her best interest in mind and is working to ensure her future. Telling her about Lyn Cordray serves to reinforce the lessons she learned at Kings Landing that nobody can be trusted and everybody could be a spy for Littlefinger. He knows that she will be interacting with all sorts of people in the coming months and at any time she could reveal who she is to one of the Vale Lords but because of the Lyn Cordray reveal she will be nervous about trusting anybody even Bronze Jon because one thing she has learned in her life is that nobody who is not named Stark can be trusted , everybody she has known has either betrayed her or let her down and it's not a lesson she will forget anytime soon.

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tze outlined on the "Littlefinger or Varys?" thread a very convincing theory that Nestor Royce is gearing up to curbstomp Littlefinger.

I just have a hard time believing that Littlefinger does not have multiple spies in Nestor Royce's household and knows anything that he is planning. Littlefinger went toe to toe with Varys and Tyrion, started the War of Five Kings , murdered Jon Arryn , Joffrey and probably Ned Stark and mananged to steal Sansa from under everybody's noses and got away with nobody being the wiser so i would have a hard time believing that Nestor Royce will be his downfall.

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holy crap this is as long as hell. you've no idea how long i spent reading this and im fully supportive of this.

most people believe petyr plans to install someone on the iron throne who he controls in the background. however him falling to the feet of dany targ seems plausible. however his motives after this are what are intruiging.

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I think he thrives because he's never had anyone else to look out for besides himself.

His biggest failure happened when he loved someone (challenge and subsequent failure against Brandon for Cat). She even outright rejected him.

All of us here could probably list a 'weakness' for every single character, simply in that they would put themselves at risk for someone they love. But Littlefinger? Who does he love, now Cat is gone?

Is he un-manipulable? Is that even a word?

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I think he thrives because he's never had anyone else to look out for besides himself.

His biggest failure happened when he loved someone (challenge and subsequent failure against Brandon for Cat). She even outright rejected him.

All of us here could probably list a 'weakness' for every single character, simply in that they would put themselves at risk for someone they love. But Littlefinger? Who does he love, now Cat is gone?

Is he un-manipulable? Is that even a word?

he loves sansa now because she reminds him off a young catelyn. in a way hes kinda like king robert as he thinks of his long lost love lyanna

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holy crap this is as long as hell. you've no idea how long i spent reading this and im fully supportive of this.

most people believe petyr plans to install someone on the iron throne who he controls in the background. however him falling to the feet of dany targ seems plausible. however his motives after this are what are intruiging.

Agreed! There were a couple points in the OP (which I realize was made some time ago...) that gave Littlefinger credit where I'm not sure he deserved it (i.e., where I believe he lucked into, rather than orchestrated, certain events), but I loved how comprehensive and thoughtful the summary was.

:cheers:

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I've been thinking about why he revealed so much information to Sansa and it seems it can only be one of two things. Either like you said he's revealing information to her because he has a weakness for her or it could be that he's revealing information to her in a very calculated manner that is all part of his greater plan. Telling her about his plan to marry her to Harry and take back the North is designed to keep her under his control as long as she believes that he has her best interest in mind and is working to ensure her future. Telling her about Lyn Cordray serves to reinforce the lessons she learned at Kings Landing that nobody can be trusted and everybody could be a spy for Littlefinger. He knows that she will be interacting with all sorts of people in the coming months and at any time she could reveal who she is to one of the Vale Lords but because of the Lyn Cordray reveal she will be nervous about trusting anybody even Bronze Jon because one thing she has learned in her life is that nobody who is not named Stark can be trusted , everybody she has known has either betrayed her or let her down and it's not a lesson she will forget anytime soon.

Your rationale is definitely a lot more in line with what we have seen of LF thus far, but the reason I feel he is slipping up has to do with him constantly seeking the affections of Sansa, asking her to kiss him even when they are alone and they have no need to pretend. Of course by the same reasoning, it could be that he was doing it deliberately to make Sansa believe he loves her.

Edit: Also regarding the Lyn Corbray reveal, I doubt it was intentional as he came across as genuinely or surprisingly impressed when Sansa was able to pick that up

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Great post. These "tl, dr" people are insufferably rude.

I love Littlefinger, one of my favourites to be sure. I love his creepy Jimmy Stewart from Vertigo-esque relationship with Sansa and how he views her as both a daughter and a lover. Deliciously creepy.

Here's hoping Littlefinger makes it out of the game somewhere near the top. The guy deserves it.

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Edit: Also regarding the Lyn Corbray reveal, I doubt it was intentional as he came across as genuinely or surprisingly impressed when Sansa was able to pick that up

I just reread that passage and Littlefinger was more than happy to tell her that Lyn Cordray was his spy and he clearly was not drunk at that time so I think that his telling her was intentional and had a purpose.

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What if Robert of the Vale is LF son

What if LF goal is to get Robert Kingship of all of Westeros

What If LF is the actual cause of Robert sickness

If Robert is Sickly all the people that support Harry the heir would come out of the shadows

If LF promise Sansa to Harry his guard would be down

If LF kills Harry the Heir and Robert is feeling better he could betrothal him to Sansa

Robert/Sansa would have Strong Claims to the North/Riverlands/Vale which they can build up power

Now with infighting starting to happen between Dorne/Westerlands/Reach/and the invasion their is no one to stop them

Robert may or may not be LF's son, but it hardly matters - LF is not plotting and working so that a sickly, stupid boy can be put forward as some trophy for Westeros.

Robert is dying, or will die soon. LF is not motivated by any paternal instincts here - he has to keep the boy alive long enough to marry Sansa to Harry, and after that, I expect that Lord Robert's milk of the poppy might be a little too strong for him one night...

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Great post. These "tl, dr" people are insufferably rude.

I love Littlefinger, one of my favourites to be sure. I love his creepy Jimmy Stewart from Vertigo-esque relationship with Sansa and how he views her as both a daughter and a lover. Deliciously creepy.

Here's hoping Littlefinger makes it out of the game somewhere near the top. The guy deserves it.

This is it.

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This forum is for discussing 1000+ page books, not posting some of your own... lol.

Seriously, that must have taken you days to type. But it is a definitive analysis and recapitulation of Littlefinger. FWIW, I share your admiration for him, and would love to see where he goes in the last few books. He is ultimately out for himself, and will support any king or queen who can further his power. His opinion of fAegon will be telling.

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