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Xray the Enforcer

[Book Spoilers] EP108 Discussion Part 2

253 posts in this topic

Episode was awesome! Not one moment of useless dialogue or random sex just for the sake of ratings. Pure GRRM, the way it's supposed to be.

:fencing:

Arya/Syrio - Very well done. It made my heart break just as much as when I read it.

Rob the (Battle) Lord - Growing into a man. I was very happy to see the change. The fight with the GreatJohn seemed a little off, or maybe it was his reaction to it, but that's a minor complaint.

Rickon - I'm sure most of the folks at home were like, "Who the heck is that?" I would've liked to see much more of him earlier on so he wasn't just a random throw-in.

Osha/Bran - I can see the relationship growing. Very well-played.

Cersei/Joffrey - Seems like she's taking a more obvious hand in the series than she did in the books. Wasn't it Joff who kicked out Selmy instead of her? Still, he gave me a squee of pride to see him throw off his cloak and sword.

Cersei/Sansa - Evil,evil, evil.... Sansa seemed more aware of what she was doing here than in the books though. Less of a mindless idiot and Cersei more of an evil witch. I like the change. It's like now that her son's in power,we get to see the real Cersei that was hiding behind Robert all these years.

Sansa/Sandor - Just enough of a hint to be perfect.

Varys/Ned - Oh, poor Ned. So doomed. I'm glad they included this scene, although I was expecting them to drop it out in favor of some random nudity.

Tyrion - Ah, my Giant of Lannister! Is it just me,or does he seem more afraid here than he did in writing? He seemed, to me, to be constantly mocking everyone around him in the books. (No less cowardly, but certainly more interesting to watch, I'd think.)

Danaerys/Drogo - I LOVE watching her character transformation here! Still a little naieve but still a queen. And Mirri Maaz Dur (sp?) gave just enough creepy foreboding to keep me happy.

Anyway, only two more to go... and so much left to do!

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PS: Yay wolves!!!

I totally forgot this was in this episode! Loved seeing Grey Wind under the table and then to jump out at Rob's command.

Ghost was a little loud, and wasn't really in the fight as much as I'd hoped, but there's only so much you can do with trained wild animals and actors, I suppose. I approve of the way it was done, though the White Walker didn't seem nearly as white, eyes nearly as blue, or nearly as creepy as it was in the beginning.

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When all the ravens left winterfell at once, i pictured luwin opening the cage for one raven and then they all flew out with him thinking"...fuck me."

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Absolutely loved this episode, best one yet. So many awesome scenes with dialogue straight out of the book.

Really loved the bit where Bran tells Rickon that Robb's gone to free father and then they'll come home with mother. And Rickon says "No, they won't". So much eery foreshadowing in those few words.

edit: for accuracy

Edited by morningsword

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And Mirri Maaz Dur (sp?) gave just enough creepy foreboding to keep me happy.

I love how it's not obvious in the show what Mirri Maaz Dur has in store for Drogo :D

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Forgot to mention something in my earlier post-review.

I know we don't talk about the music in this series much, but I feel this is worth mentioning - when Robb first gets Sansa's letter and Luwin is explaining what it means, there's really slow piece of music in the back that almost screams "this dude is about to go kick some ass" and it starts to swell as the birds fly out, and then hits a peak as the scene shifts to Catelyn running up the stairs to Lysa. Gave me chills even on my second viewing.

I think what makes it even better is the crafty editing. Most of the first half of the episode is dealing with immediate aftermath of Ned's imprisonment, so we see each of his family members in turn - and we end on the one who loves him most dearly (Cat). One of those little pieces of brilliance, IMO, especially with the music there.

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What kind of a shit scout are you if you actually count the enemy's forces with your fingers in the air?

One that gets caught.

Also, the guards said he looked to be counting: maybe he was writing numbers down and the guards didnt knew how to read.

Edited by Ser Warpechowski

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Stannis is a much more significant character than Craster (who will be in two or three episodes) or Quorin Halfhand, who will be the secondary character in the episodes he gets. Stannis would be perfect for a big namer (again I don't expect an A lister, it's not HBO's method). He is VERY significant, he is the rightful king now, no one else could argue that point (I don't think the Targaryn's pass the throne to women). He is a heroic, yet tragicly flawed character, the type of role great actors win awards for. And he is not going to be on screen the most for season 2 (clearly this will be Tyrion), a larger role in season 3 (I'm not sure who will have the most screen time there). His role will be larger in the series than the books as the POV's are gone.

Not being the main character makes the time demands MUCH less, which helps a busy actor. The actors who play the leads of the various books are fully committed time wise, they cannot work for those 3? months of filming. Movies and TV series frequently work around the schedule of bigger name actors.

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I just want to point how much I think the actor who plays Alliser Thorne is nailing his part. It's like what everyone says about Joffery, how he has a douchey face and you just hate even seeing him. Every time Thorne comes on screen he has that look on his face, such as when he called Jon a traitor's bastard and then did that ever so simple little smirk. The Thorne Smirk of Superciliousness.

I just want to punch him in the fucking face. Alll Thorne has to do is look and I want to claw his fucking eyes out. Arrrggghhhhhh.

It's brilliant.

Edited by JetboyGirl

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Loved this episode :thumbsup:

Some well known lines from the book were used, and it is certainly a huge plus for it.

But looking back now:

Bronn commenting how he could get the Vale if he had dozen good man to command and some climbing spikes, and Tyrion promising mountain clans The Vale of Arryn. Considering they kept it in the series, perhaps Bronn wont stop at Stockworth...

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Probably been touched on in this thread (or rather, the previous one)...but no time to read it all through. What about Lyanna & Ned's dreams of her? I understand the time constraints, but there are some scenes that could have been cut to add that in. She is a pretty important Stark figure even though she is never around, and pretty key to Ned's character.

All in all a solid episode but I think this was an episode where the squeezed in a bit too much in order to ramp up to the final two hours.

I really hope next season gets 12 episodes.

I also wonder (and hope) if there will be extended editions of each episode on the Blu-Ray/DVD?

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I just want to point how much I think the actor who plays Alliser Thorne is nailing his part. It's like what everyone says about Joffery, how he has a douchey face and you just hate even seeing him. Every time Thorne comes on screen he has that look on his face, such as when he called Jon a traitor's bastard and then did that ever so simple little smirk. The Thorne Smirk of Superciliousness.

I just want to punch him in the fucking face. Alll Thorne has to do is look and I want to claw his fucking eyes out. Arrrggghhhhhh.

It's brilliant.

Lol yeah, definitaly win here.

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One that gets caught.

Also, the guards said he looked to be counting: maybe he was writing numbers down and the guards didnt knew how to read.

Hmm, I guess. The Lannisters seem to be cursed with having really bad scouts in general. Maybe the guards figured it out when they saw him counting with the help of the eyes from previous scouts. You know like an abacus.

"One tent, that's one eyeball, two tents, that's two eyeballs... Shit, I'm running out of eyeballs at this rate! Have to use me fingers now..."

Edited by The Warmth of Winter

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I just want to point how much I think the actor who plays Alliser Thorne is nailing his part. It's like what everyone says about Joffery, how he has a douchey face and you just hate even seeing him. Every time Thorne comes on screen he has that look on his face, such as when he called Jon a traitor's bastard and then did that ever so simple little smirk. The Thorne Smirk of Superciliousness.

I just want to punch him in the fucking face. Alll Thorne has to do is look and I want to claw his fucking eyes out. Arrrggghhhhhh.

It's brilliant.

We call him the Irish Gene Hackman, all he needs is a little chuckle when other characters are speaking.

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Hmm, I guess. The Lannisters seem to be cursed with having really bad scouts in general. Maybe the guards figured it out when they saw him counting with the help of the eyes from previous scouts. You know like an abacus.

"One tent, that's one eyeball, two tents, that's two eyeballs... Shit, I'm running out of eyeballs at this rate! Have to use me fingers now..."

As I said in the previous thread, it's actually quite unlikely that a scout could count the spears of an army without using his fingers. There's a reason the word 'digit' has double meanings and it's because the decimal system is based on our number of fingers. It's just logical that most people in Westeros are on the level of children by our standards, if they can count beyond a few coppers for purchases at all that is. I think some people are severely underestimating what it takes to have a literate and educated population, even on a low level.

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As I said in the previous thread, it's actually quite unlikely that a scout could count the spears of an army without using his fingers. There's a reason the word 'digit' has double meanings and it's because the decimal system is based on our number of fingers. It's just logical that most people in Westeros are on the level of children by our standards, if they can count beyond a few coppers for purchases at all that is. I think some people are severely underestimating what it takes to have a literate and educated population, even on a low level.

Also, he may have been trying to keep track of multiple things (number of foot, horse, lords, siege engines, baggage carts, etc.). That could get tricky fast. And we don't know it was using his fingers that gave him away, right? He could have been making marks in a stick to pass on to a courier, or they could have just assumed he was counting because why else would he be hanging around the camp.

Re. the question of how they'll market the show next year, I don't think a big name "star" is nearly as important for the 2nd season as it was for the 1st. By now, people have a good idea of what the show is all about. If you like quasi-medieval political dramas, you're probably going to watch anyway. If you don't you aren't.

The existing cast are recognizable enough now to use in ads reminding HBO's target demographic that the show is coming back. And, short of doing something crazy like casting Jay Z as Stannis and Beyonce as Mel, they're probably not going to expand the audience much beyond that target demographic regardless of who they cast.

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One that gets caught.

Also, the guards said he looked to be counting: maybe he was writing numbers down and the guards didnt knew how to read.

He could have counted/approximated 100, then put his hand in front of his face to divide that hundred from the rest and use that group to estimate 1000, to estimate the total, while keeping track on the fingers of his other hand.

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Also, he may have been trying to keep track of multiple things (number of foot, horse, lords, siege engines, baggage carts, etc.). That could get tricky fast. And we don't know it was using his fingers that gave him away, right? He could have been making marks in a stick to pass on to a courier, or they could have just assumed he was counting because why else would he be hanging around the camp.

No we don't know that, it was just something that was brought up in the discussion and I wanted to oppose the notion that it would somehow be odd to count on your fingers as an uneducated man in a medieval society, when it in fact should be extremely common. He could of course have done a number of different things to look like he was counting, just as you say.

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He could have counted/approximated 100, then put his hand in front of his face to divide that hundred from the rest and use that group to estimate 1000, to estimate the total, while keeping track on the fingers of his other hand.

Also very possible. I've seen people do something similar when estimating crowd sizes at events.

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