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Xray the Enforcer

[Book Spoilers] EP108 Discussion Part 2

253 posts in this topic

Re. the question of how they'll market the show next year, I don't think a big name "star" is nearly as important for the 2nd season as it was for the 1st. By now, people have a good idea of what the show is all about. If you like quasi-medieval political dramas, you're probably going to watch anyway. If you don't you aren't.

The existing cast are recognizable enough now to use in ads reminding HBO's target demographic that the show is coming back. And, short of doing something crazy like casting Jay Z as Stannis and Beyonce as Mel, they're probably not going to expand the audience much beyond that target demographic regardless of who they cast.

I agree, I think it's more likely they hire quality but not well known actors. That is HBO's typical method. Sean Bean was probably the biggext name for their "flagship series". I think he noses out Steve Buscemi, and well above Anna Paquin. Gandolfini was barely known, Olyphant even less so (the killer from Scream 2). Rome and Carnival had no star power to speak of. Have I forgotten any of their "big" dramas?

This is not a slight on the acting ability of these actors, most of them were brilliant choices and the reason these shows are so excellent.

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One that gets caught.

Also, the guards said he looked to be counting: maybe he was writing numbers down and the guards didnt knew how to read.

He was a scout...He was probably just standing/sitting/hiding within sight of the camp. One of the main purposes of sending a scout out would be to count. He wouldn't need to be "doing" anything to appear to be counting.

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With the build up this show has towards the Dothraki invading, the dragons hatching, and The Others waking up.... the next three seasons right lose non-readers fast. TV crowd are fickle mistresses.

I think the Wall scenes with Jon in future books will be fine. I actually thought his story-line was a total bore in GoT and tough to get to, but once they start ranging North, his chapters were my favorite reads.

The problem will be adapting Dany's chapters over the next few seasons. Not only will it be difficult to show certain scenes (prophetic dreams), but after all the build-up of an invasion in GoT, her story kind of languishes to the rest of Westeros.

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As I said in the previous thread, it's actually quite unlikely that a scout could count the spears of an army without using his fingers. There's a reason the word 'digit' has double meanings and it's because the decimal system is based on our number of fingers. It's just logical that most people in Westeros are on the level of children by our standards, if they can count beyond a few coppers for purchases at all that is. I think some people are severely underestimating what it takes to have a literate and educated population, even on a low level.

Perhaps he signaling, like they do in the trading pits, to a scout farther off with a spyglass. Perhaps that way he gets the count with out risking losing the information

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Best scene from EP108 for me was the final scene in the throne room that captured the off-kilter kingdom gone corrupt feel you get from the books. Poor Sansa. Haven't thought much of the actor who plays Joffrey to this point but he really nicely captured his unique brand of malicious ennui. Cersei, Pycelle and Varys all nicely came into focus as well. Hell, so did Robb, Drogo and in a different vein...Hodor (Sunlight, motherfucker! Do you get it?!)

It's been mentioned before but with RR at the helm the whole thing felt more self assured and the storytelling when you're jumping from character to character has never been more coherent. Everything that needed to be conveyed was conveyed and it didn't take a 5 minute long monologue with ass-to-ass going on in the background.

Also thought Catelyn was just perfection in this episode in the subtle play of emotions that crossed her face seeing her eldest Robb leading an army to war. Think Michelle Fairley has captured the essence of Catelyn beautifully throughout but this episode especially gave us that first window into both her misgivings, regret and setting the seeds of her future despair. Think over the progression of her plot arc we'll once again be reminded of the dichotomy between those fans heartbroken over what befalls Catelyn and those without souls.

Other things I noted:

-I laughed out loud probably 4-5 times in this episode, sometimes because the show intended I should and sometimes not. Arya stabbing the stable boy felt a little Afterschool Specialish (Lesson to the kids: this is what happens when you stab 'em with the pointy end) and Grey Wind running over to bite off the Greatjon's fingers had me on the floor. All it was missing was the Monty Python gusher of blood spurting straight up. And, of course, the line: "Your meat...is bloody tough!" I mean, I'm not sure what I would expect the show to do differently - after all that is exactly what happened. Just the execution cracked me up for some reason.

-Drogo is legitimately more bad-ass than I was expecting when I saw the first stills of Jason Momoa (who looked like an emo WWE wrestler to me at first.) Loved the way he pulled out his two daggers only to drop 'em on the ground as he continued to shout out all the things he was gonna do to the guy. Momoa's been perfect - a shame he won't be with us much longer.

-Rickon's appearance was jarring because he's been gone so long. Thought they were just gonna merge the two characters into Brickon.

-I've noticed beyond aging up the Stark children it also seems to apply to the Greatjons and Hodors of the world. I'm vaguely terrified of the cryptkeeper that will await inside the Twins. Hope they use a muppet, but that's just me.

-Loved that we (and Tywin) got introduced to Shagga, Timmett and Chella. That was a treat. Was like a "who's who" of the Mountain Clans.

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Varys/Ned - Oh, poor Ned. So doomed. I'm glad they included this scene, although I was expecting them to drop it out in favor of some random nudity.

They could of had Ned naked in the dungeon- I know I would have appreciated that type of random nudity :rolleyes:

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I really liked the casting of the Greatjon, and how the character was played. He feels a bit like Hamish and Campbell from Braveheart (and of course, James Cosmo/Campbell plays the Old Bear!), which is pretty much exactly the mental image I had of the Greatjon when I was reading the books.

"Well, we didn't get all dressed up for nothing."

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Great episode. Not the best, but close. Syrio's fight wasn't choreographed all that well. I can't suspend disbelief enough to belive that he knocked out those armoered, helmed men with a swift knock to the head.

Otherwise, everything else rocked. We got some new lore from the hands of GRRM himself. Apparently, the Others sleep under the ice for thousands of years before reawakening.

I sure hope they show Selmy killing Lannister guardsmen next episode instead of us just hearing about it like in the books. Drogo was awesome. I will definately watch the new Conan movie now.

Oh and Ghost should be mute. Too late for that now I guess.

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Best scene from EP108 for me was the final scene in the throne room that captured the off-kilter kingdom gone corrupt feel you get from the books. Poor Sansa. Haven't thought much of the actor who plays Joffrey to this point but he really nicely captured his unique brand of malicious ennui. Cersei, Pycelle and Varys all nicely came into focus as well. Hell, so did Robb, Drogo and in a different vein...Hodor (Sunlight, motherfucker! Do you get it?!)

It's been mentioned before but with RR at the helm the whole thing felt more self assured and the storytelling when you're jumping from character to character has never been more coherent. Everything that needed to be conveyed was conveyed and it didn't take a 5 minute long monologue with ass-to-ass going on in the background.

Also thought Catelyn was just perfection in this episode in the subtle play of emotions that crossed her face seeing her eldest Robb leading an army to war. Think Michelle Fairley has captured the essence of Catelyn beautifully throughout but this episode especially gave us that first window into both her misgivings, regret and setting the seeds of her future despair. Think over the progression of her plot arc we'll once again be reminded of the dichotomy between those fans heartbroken over what befalls Catelyn and those without souls.

Other things I noted:

-I laughed out loud probably 4-5 times in this episode, sometimes because the show intended I should and sometimes not. Arya stabbing the stable boy felt a little Afterschool Specialish (Lesson to the kids: this is what happens when you stab 'em with the pointy end) and Grey Wind running over to bite off the Greatjon's fingers had me on the floor. All it was missing was the Monty Python gusher of blood spurting straight up. And, of course, the line: "Your meat...is bloody tough!" I mean, I'm not sure what I would expect the show to do differently - after all that is exactly what happened. Just the execution cracked me up for some reason.

-Drogo is legitimately more bad-ass than I was expecting when I saw the first stills of Jason Momoa (who looked like an emo WWE wrestler to me at first.) Loved the way he pulled out his two daggers only to drop 'em on the ground as he continued to shout out all the things he was gonna do to the guy. Momoa's been perfect - a shame he won't be with us much longer.

-Rickon's appearance was jarring because he's been gone so long. Thought they were just gonna merge the two characters into Brickon.

-I've noticed beyond aging up the Stark children it also seems to apply to the Greatjons and Hodors of the world. I'm vaguely terrified of the cryptkeeper that will await inside the Twins. Hope they use a muppet, but that's just me.

-Loved that we (and Tywin) got introduced to Shagga, Timmett and Chella. That was a treat. Was like a "who's who" of the Mountain Clans.

I'm too lazy to type it out, so I agree with all of this post. Awesome episode. Also Barristan the bold and Khal Drogo have just entered my favorite characters list.

Edited by Cereal Forel

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-Loved that we (and Tywin) got introduced to Shagga, Timmett and Chella. That was a treat. Was like a "who's who" of the Mountain Clans.

Oh! Oh! Oh! This was one of my favorite bits because all of Chella's ears, there was a big mound of them hanging down over her chest. Geeeerrrr-owe-sssssss.

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I just thought it was SO STUPID for Robb to let that scout live, why in the world would he do that? Just so he could have some half assed boast at Tywin, "I'm gonna kill you mofo!" SO STUPID.

And I cringe whenever I see LF in a scene, he doesn't do it for me at all.

Edited by Volderon

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-Rickon's appearance was jarring because he's been gone so long. Thought they were just gonna merge the two characters into Brickon.

I lol'ed.

Agree with most of what has been said, great episode. The pacing was much more consistent than in previous episodes. I was skeptical about the Bob Ross Syrio actor at first, but he was great in the swordfight scene. Also really enjoying Varys' scenes.

Still extremely disappointed with the casting for Cersei, but I suppose eventually I'll get over it. Maybe.

edit: oh, and loved the intro of Bronn to Tywin... Bronn son of... "You wouldn't know him."

Edited by ser_nerdick

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My first thought on seeing the Greatjon was "He used to be in Casualty". Then Grey Wind bit his fingers off, and I thought "he was a doctor, he'll know how to take care of that".

Another thought on that line - I recognised the actor despite the huge beard, which is the sort of thing which will make it difficult for them to disguise Barristan further down the line.

Ghost seemed to turn into Lassie for a minute there.

Naked Hodor seemed to be the comic relief moment for this episode.

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I just thought it was SO STUPID for Robb to let that scout live, why in the world would he do that? Just so he could have some half assed boast at Tywin, "I'm gonna kill you mofo!" SO STUPID.

The scout is going to run to Lord Tywin all like "OMG Robb Stark has 18,000 men, and he's marching straight for you!", and Tywin is going to be like "LOL WHAT A NOOB. I'mma put all my guys right here and meet them head on", then what happens is that Roose Bolton shows up with only Robb's foot and locks Tywin up in battle while Robb leads his horse to defeat Jaime's host.

By letting the scout live, he is feeding Tywin false information. Deception is a crucial part of war.

Edited by kungtotte

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...and in a different vein...Hodor (Sunlight, motherfucker! Do you get it?!)

He's Norn Irish, so... no. ;)

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oh how could I forgot the leech, they haven't introduced Roose properly yet have they?

One thing I noticed, a friend of mine is watching the show who has not read the books, and he is so confused by the Targaryen, Ned, Robert background, even though he is very keen on the show and likes it. I wonder if they needed to do more there in the tv show.

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Another thought on that line - I recognised the actor despite the huge beard, which is the sort of thing which will make it difficult for them to disguise Barristan further down the line.

Yeah, I'm betting they aren't going to bother trying to hide it from the audience. Dany won't know who he is, but we will. It will be a nice teaser/cliffhanger for the end of season 2: why is Barristan there, when/how will Dany find out who he really is, and what will she do about it?

One thing I noticed, a friend of mine is watching the show who has not read the books, and he is so confused by the Targaryen, Ned, Robert background, even though he is very keen on the show and likes it. I wonder if they needed to do more there in the tv show.

Maybe you should direct him to the HBO viewers' guide. I had a friend in a similar situation, and he seemed to find it helpful.

Edited by Xenophon

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-I've noticed beyond aging up the Stark children it also seems to apply to the Greatjons and Hodors of the world. I'm vaguely terrified of the cryptkeeper that will await inside the Twins. Hope they use a muppet, but that's just me.

LOL! That would be sweet. Although I can't decide if I want it to be Statler or Waldorf. It would be sweet if they gave Frey a twin, and they could both be up there, heckling the Starks and his many children.

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The scout is going to run to Lord Tywin all like "OMG Robb Stark has 18,000 men, and he's marching straight for you!", and Tywin is going to be like "LOL WHAT A NOOB. I'mma put all my guys right here and meet them head on", then what happens is that Roose Bolton shows up with only Robb's foot and locks Tywin up in battle while Robb leads his horse to defeat Jaime's host.

By letting the scout live, he is feeding Tywin false information. Deception is a crucial part of war.

Exactly. This was the show being clear on why Tywin notices that Robb splits his host too late to do anything about it. We haven't seen the clever part yet though so we're being led to believe that Robb is just more merciful than smart, just like the Greatjon thought and just as Tywin will think.

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