[BOOK/TVSPOILERS] Blackfish

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

No, of course not, I don't want any characters to be invincible. But you need strong and likeable characters (villains can be likeable in their own way) to be able to tell a believable story that can hold your attention. If you continuously kill off characters as a habit, you're just dumping 3000-4000 pages of development into the drain.

And I've come across this quote for Martin elsewhere, that "...his unpredictability is getting quite predictable now...".

[Padraig]

And I've come across this quote for Martin elsewhere, that "...his unpredictability is getting quite predictable now...".

Probably because he didn't kill off enough strong and likeable characters in aFfC. :P You can't win sometimes...

Although, I will add that GRRM doesn't randomly kill off characters. There is always a reason. People find him unpredictable because the reason isn't obvious until after the event.

[j52y]

Yeah, one thing I like about Martin that major characters don't die for just shock, there's always a plot of thematic (in most cases, both) reason for the death.

[Lord Mord]

I think that's what bugs me about people tuning out to the series just because a character they liked died. It strikes me there are only two possibilities: 1) that character was the only reason they were tuned in in the first place -- which is a little narrow-minded, but to each their own, I guess; or else 2) they feel somehow betrayed, as though the author were deliberately fooling them in order to shock them, which is what I rather suspect in most cases. This would account for all those cases of books thrown against walls, and suchlike. And while shock value is nothing to be sneered at, on the other hand, it seems like selling an author short, on no real evidence, and for no other reason than spite. Bah. Childishness.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

I think that's what bugs me about people tuning out to the series just because a character they liked died. It strikes me there are only two possibilities: 1) that character was the only reason they were tuned in in the first place -- which is a little narrow-minded, but to each their own, I guess; or else 2) they feel somehow betrayed, as though the author were deliberately fooling them in order to shock them, which is what I rather suspect in most cases. This would account for all those cases of books thrown against walls, and suchlike. And while shock value is nothing to be sneered at, on the other hand, it seems like selling an author short, on no real evidence, and for no other reason than spite. Bah. Childishness.

Then give us characters good enough to replace the old ones. Compare Ned, Robb, Catelyn etc. with Cersie, Arianne, Brienne, Aeron, Victarion etc. Jaime is the only 'new' POV in my eyes that is even remotely interesting and even his arc was sorely stretched in Feast.

[Padraig]

Compare Ned, Robb, Catelyn etc. with Cersie, Arianne, Brienne, Aeron, Victarion etc. Jaime is the only 'new' POV in my eyes that is even remotely interesting and even his arc was sorely stretched in Feast.

You don't like Davos, Sam and Theon? Or are you just going on aFfC?

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

What is there to like about Theon? He's worse than all of the others combined.

Sam and Davos are ok, nothing great in my eyes personally. But still better than Cersei and Brienne.

[uncle fester]

I don't know if combining Edmure and Brynden together really works well for the story. After all who is Jamie going to have hostage to negotiate the surrender of Riverrun. I could see Brynden and Howland Reed being consolidated into one.

Not a chance. One is hopelessly incompetent and the other is rather brilliant. Blackfish doesn't do a whole lot until the next series so it's safe enough to pop him in then when the cast has been thinned down by the end of S1.

Whatever about Blackfish, I want to know what they've done with the Boltons and Karstarks.

[metr0man]

I think that's what bugs me about people tuning out to the series just because a character they liked died. It strikes me there are only two possibilities: 1) that character was the only reason they were tuned in in the first place -- which is a little narrow-minded, but to each their own, I guess; or else 2) they feel somehow betrayed, as though the author were deliberately fooling them in order to shock them, which is what I rather suspect in most cases. This would account for all those cases of books thrown against walls, and suchlike. And while shock value is nothing to be sneered at, on the other hand, it seems like selling an author short, on no real evidence, and for no other reason than spite. Bah. Childishness.

Many many people read and watch entertainment (tv shows especially) because of characters. For instance, a show like House, which is otherwise formulaic but has a memorable lead character. There's really nothing "invalid" or "bad" about that. In fact it's why some people just find it impossible to enjoy "genre" stuff (scifi and fantasy) because those are often "about" their universes and plots, and less "about" characters.

Why should a story exist if it's not about characters? Because of plot? Plot-driven stories are generally considered a bad thing.

[Padraig]

What is there to like about Theon? He's worse than all of the others combined.

Sorry. I thought you meant "interesting", as in, the plot was interesting. While I didn't like what Theon did in aCoK, the story was brilliant IMO.

Similarly, Cersei isn't supposed to be liked. We'll see what he has planned for aDwD but I suppose he is going to keep trying to create different characters, so some people will be dissappointed.

Anyhow, of the 8 original POVs, 6 still survive, so you can't really say GRRM has gone too far. :)

Why should a story exist if it's not about characters? Because of plot? Plot-driven stories are generally considered a bad thing.

Unlike House, GoT was always an ensemble. Ned was the main character in S1 but there was a lot of other characters driving the plot.

If people want to watch a safe show, then GoT isn't going to work for them. But if people want to genuinely fear for characters then GoT will work. Its all a matter of taste.

[SerArthurHeath]

Then give us characters good enough to replace the old ones. Compare Ned, Robb, Catelyn etc. with Cersie, Arianne, Brienne, Aeron, Victarion etc. Jaime is the only 'new' POV in my eyes that is even remotely interesting and even his arc was sorely stretched in Feast.

The keywords here are "in my eyes". I quite liked Asha, , Brienne and Arianne's PoV. Cersei's was fascinating if somewhat ooc at points comapred to aGoT, but not as much as people seem to make out. I really liked Theon's. Jaime's PoV made aFfC a genuinely enjoyable read for me. Robb didn't have a PoV. Cat's PoV had some nice moments but generally annoyed me. Ned's PoV was good but for me was a less interesting version of Jon's. I'm very excited for Selmy and Quentyn's PoV. If we are counting Robb, then we can count every character we learn about from new PoVs or even new characters from old ones, surely?

[seppuku]

Really, they need to keep both Edmure and Bryden separate characters and have them play off one another. If for no other reason than to show that not all the Tullys are crazy/wusses.

Basically.

I think killing Hoster Tully off early and giving the Fish ample face time in season 2 makes the most sense. They already sent Barristan off prematurely in the show. Cutting a prominent, loved character that isn't dead and can still influence future books like the Blackfish would be really dumb.

[SerArthurHeath]

Basically.

They already sent Barristan off prematurely in the show.

Did they?

[seppuku]

Did they?

Yes. His leaving the Kingsguard did not happen in the first book.

The writers have also said a character that dies in book 3 will be killed off earlier I don't think it's been confirmed who yet though (correct me if wrong).

[malarky1231]

Yes. His leaving the Kingsguard did not happen in the first book.

The writers have also said a character that dies in book 3 will be killed off earlier I don't think it's been confirmed who yet though (correct me if wrong).

Lysa Tully. God I hate that shriveled droopy tittied bitch.

She killed her own husband!!!!

[Xanderpanda]

Yes. His leaving the Kingsguard did not happen in the first book.

The writers have also said a character that dies in book 3 will be killed off earlier I don't think it's been confirmed who yet though (correct me if wrong).

erh what? He left in the show the exact moment he did in the book right after Ned is captured.

[seppuku]

Yeah, I got confused.

[Xanderpanda]

Huh?

I was talking about Barristan Selmy not Jaimie.

Yeah I know. As I said Barristan gets dismissed right after Neds captured and Joffery becomes King.

Edit: (A Game of Thrones, Chapter 57, Sansa) to be exact

[Asarlai]

Any ornery old knight can end up castellan of Riverrun to have that chat with Jaime in AFfC, as far as the show is concerned, I suspect. But that's way, way in the future anyways.

So, just purely a gut feeling, I don't know that we'll have Brynden Tully at all in the show.

But the whole point of it being a big deal that the Blackfish escaped was that he was a Tully. With him free, there is a rightful ruler, a famous knight, and a natural rallying point out there to oppose the Lannister/Frey control of the Riverlands.

[j52y]

So, someone caught up with Martin on his book tour and asked him some casting questions. Pertaining to this topic, he asked:

"Black Lion: You are involved in the casting process for the season two of the HBO series. My first question is, whether you saw any audition tapes for a fan-favorite character, Brynden Tully (GRRM: The Blackfish, yes) as we are eagerly awaiting for him to appear on screen?

GRRM: No, I haven’t seen any of the Blackfish audition tapes yet."

Source: http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/06/grrm-dishes-on-casting-at-signing-in-poland/#more-9066

We also know that Martin has began writing the 9th episode of season 2:

"-- writing the first draft of my script for episode nine of season two of the HBO series GAME OF THRONES, "Blackwater," and damn, but this one is a bitch of an adaptation, the original author made the damn battle way too big and too expensive,"

Source: http://grrm.livejournal.com/219080.html

Clearly, since he's already started writing, he knows what's going on this season. He knows if Blackfish will be in this season or not. Now, the writing process isn't done, so they might change their minds, but he at least knows the plan for Blackfish (of lackthereof) in season 2.

When asked about the casting of Blackfish, he said not yet. Yet, implying that it will happen. If Blackfish weren't going to be in the season, I feel as though he would've said, "There are no Blackfish auditions; he's not gonna be in this season."

I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me that we will be seeing old Bryden in season 2. We'll know in a month either way.