11th Heaven Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm interested as to what people think of this character. I've always felt quite sorry for him - clearly a decent, kindhearted man who's biggest failing appears to be being a little laddish for his age, which at 25-27 isn't a huge crime. It strikes me as unfair how little respect he seems to receive from Catelyn, Robb and Brynden, and how he is put down by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm interested as to what people think of this character. I've always felt quite sorry for him - clearly a decent, kindhearted man who's biggest failing appears to be being a little laddish for his age, which at 25-27 isn't a huge crime. It strikes me as unfair how little respect he seems to receive from Catelyn, Robb and Brynden, and how he is put down by them.He is quite decent, the thing I remember most from him is that he cared enough about his "serfs" to allow them shelter in Riverrun itself - a stupid move military I guess but such a nice human gesture - how many lords in ASOIAF have shown such sentiments (well, there's Dondarrion and co but those are rare exceptions)? He's not an exceptional man by any means and he does suffer a few defeats in the war (allthough he did stop Tywin that one time - pity Robb and Brynden hadn't bothered to tell him the whole plan!), but he's loyal, generally kind to his people and when you see how he accepted his marriage with an unknown Frey, or his losing Riverrun, the man has a certain grace to him. I hope he survives and cares for Roslin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 He is a nice guy, hot-headed, generous, sensible, not too bright, feeling family pressure, and unfairly demeaned by his family for their own mistakes.It sucks when the first thing you sister thinks upon entering your castle is "he is trying to save too many people, the idiot", or when your king doesn't tell you that "hold the castle" means "stay in your castle and let the enemy ravage your land, kill your people outside and take my army from behind" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquet Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm interested as to what people think of this character. I've always felt quite sorry for him - clearly a decent, kindhearted man who's biggest failing appears to be being a little laddish for his age, which at 25-27 isn't a huge crime. It strikes me as unfair how little respect he seems to receive from Catelyn, Robb and Brynden, and how he is put down by them.He got an unfair shake. He was doing his best and I think most agree that Robb and Brynden should have shared the plans with him. If you are able to route your foe so easily it is hard to stop, even if those were your original orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenophon Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 He got an unfair shake. He was doing his best and I think most agree that Robb and Brynden should have shared the plans with him. If you are able to route your foe so easily it is hard to stop, even if those were your original orders.Exactly, Robb never made it clear why he didn't want the crossing defended. If you can't trust a subordinate enough to tell him "don't worry if Tywin crosses the Trident; we have a plan for dealing with him which I'll tell you about later", then you shouldn't leave him in command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Heaven Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 He is a nice guy, hot-headed, generous, sensible, not too bright, feeling family pressure, and unfairly demeaned by his family for their own mistakes.It sucks when the first thing you sister thinks upon entering your castle is "he is trying to save too many people, the idiot", or when your king doesn't tell you that "hold the castle" means "stay in your castle and let the enemy ravage your land, kill your people outside and take my army from behind"In what way is he not too bright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antibodies Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I wonder if anyone has opened a thread of "losers in ASoIaF." The list can start with Theon Greyjoy and Edmure Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I like Edmure a lot, and while I understand where his family is coming from, I've always wished him the best in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 In what way is he not too bright?Doesn't really understand politics, not too good with strategy or planning, doesn't think too much about what he wants to do, that sort of things. He's not idiot or anything, but he is not a genius. But he has the heart in the right place, anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Heaven Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Doesn't really understand politics, not too good with strategy or planning, doesn't think too much about what he wants to do, that sort of things. He's not idiot or anything, but he is not a genius. But he has the heart in the right place, anyhow.What situations are you thinking of? I'm not disagreeing, I'd just like to know what you're thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I wouldn't say Edmure's bad, i mean he beat Tywin. And so what if he didn't manage to hit Hoster's ship, i doubt that Dayne, Robert or Ned were great shots with a bow, it doesn't make him a bad person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What situations are you thinking of? I'm not disagreeing, I'd just like to know what you're thinking of.Hmm, the talks with Freys/Kastarks/Renly thing, his hoarding of peasants inside his walls, his defeat at the hands of Jaime, his avoiding Cat, his acceptance of being browbeaten into marrying (note one of the browbeater is one who actually always refused to marry, too). That sort of things. I don't actually have too many specific examples coming to mind, it's just the general recollection I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lannister Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I really feel sorry for him. And Robb doesn't understand politics either. He's good with strategy, but no one can blame Edmure for wanting to save his land. He was just unlucky. The fool in all the Robb-atacks-the-west-so-Tywin-comes-to-defend-it-and-is-traped was Robb, who told nothing to his uncle about his plans. How could Edmure know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 After thinking on it i just feel sorry for him. He's trying to live a nice quiet life in Westeros' equivalent of the lake district when out of the blue his neighbours start attacking him and killing all his friends because of the actions of his in-laws and sister who he hasn't seen for 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apt54 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hmm, the talks with Freys/Kastarks/Renly thing, his hoarding of peasants inside his walls, his defeat at the hands of Jaime, his avoiding Cat, his acceptance of being browbeaten into marrying (note one of the browbeater is one who actually always refused to marry, too). That sort of things. I don't actually have too many specific examples coming to mind, it's just the general recollection I have.Turned out the dude was right in all three instances.You prefer Cersei's approach? A mazafuka like Stannis is shit-stomping the city and you order that nobody be allowed into safehouse? And Stannis is a bunny when compared to Gregor.And all those that lose to Jaime and a Lannister force are qualified "not too bright"?He actually understood that in times like that, only rank idiots weigh marriage by love higher than marriage by political gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Laurel Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Bad luck to come into your inheritance in the middle of a civil war, and with all your more seasoned family members dead or away on campaign. He still would have turned out all right except for the Red Wedding, which nobody on his side saw coming -- he'd be the Lord of Riverrun, married to a beautiful Frey girl and the linchpin of the Northern Alliance. He might have even had a few military victories on his way to helping Robb return home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lannister Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Bad luck to come into your inheritance in the middle of a civil war, and with all your more seasoned family members dead or away on campaign. He still would have turned out all right except for the Red Wedding, which nobody on his side saw coming -- he'd be the Lord of Riverrun, married to a beautiful Frey girl and the linchpin of the Northern Alliance. He might have even had a few military victories on his way to helping Robb return home.I totally agree. The fault of the fall of the King in the North is entirely Robb's. He broke the alliance with the Freys leading to the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans Bastard Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What situations are you thinking of? I'm not disagreeing, I'd just like to know what you're thinking of.I think it's an issue of tactics vs. strategy. Edmure isn't a bad tactician or general; he won a few battles. However, he doesn't see the long game. In the beginning of the war, Tywin's sent out his three dogs (Gregor Clegane, Amory Lorch, and Vargo Hoat) to burn and terrorize the countryside in the Riverlands. This was done in part to exact revenge on House Tully for capturing Tyrion, but it was mainly designed to induce Edmure to disperse his troops to defend the entire region.By doing this, Tywin was able to weaken the main Tully host with the use of a very small number of soldiers.It took a more far-seeing soldier like Robb to realize there was no way to beat Tywin if you let him set the terms and location of the battle. That's why Robb decided to go West and lure Tywin to a less strategically advantageous position. In the Riverlands, Robb was outnumbered and he knew that marching on Harrenhal was foolish. But standing pat in Riverrun while the Lannisters burned the countryside was also an option.Edmure would never have seen the third door. Unfortunately, Robb's plan was initially successful, but failed due to the fact that Edmure stopped Tywin's army at the Red Fork and allowed word of Stannis' impending attack to reach Tywin's host. Since Edmure wasn't informed of the grand plan as he should have been, I can't blame.The bottom line - Edmure isn't nearly as creative a strategist as many other generals in Westeros and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seppuku Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Edmure is just a huge failure all around. Riverrun should have went to the Blackfish anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitsphyre Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm interested as to what people think of this character. I've always felt quite sorry for him - clearly a decent, kindhearted man who's biggest failing appears to be being a little laddish for his age, which at 25-27 isn't a huge crime. It strikes me as unfair how little respect he seems to receive from Catelyn, Robb and Brynden, and how he is put down by them.He would have legally been an adult for 9-11 years at this point. I think that a lot of the reason people look down on him is because you have a person like Robb who ISN'T an adult when the war starts (he was only 15) doing better than he was. And he was screwing up their plans :P He was even LESS receptive to hints about plans than Catelyn and that's saying something(I love Catelyn but I see her as naive. And I think that Edmure being even more naive is a problem) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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