Ser Loras Conspiracy Theory

[BigBellyBen]

He and Renly upjumped Stannis out of the line of succession, Loras exactly isn't a bastion of chivalry. He used base tactics to beat the Mountain in the Tourney of the Hand.

Base tactics? Really? I'm pretty sure that the Mountain had JUST jammed his lance under someones gorget to win a tilt. I wouldn't ride fair against him either.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

I don't think that its established that Stannis assassinated Renly because most people in Westeros still blame Brienne/Catelyn.

The OP's theory sounds good. It'd be a shame for YET ANOTHER character to die off screen.

[BigBellyBen]

I think the entire idea behind burning Loras is that Martin wants to rob the Knight of Flowers of his beauty, which has really seemed to be the cornerstone of his character (along with his tourney prowess). I think an ugly, bitter Loras would be far more interesting anyways.

Maybe Loras and the Hound can have some tea parties together in the I'm scarred by scared of hot things club. I think the concept of the bitter burned man on a revenge quest is take care of with Sandor already, so why use the same formula twice?

[Dragonfish]

I think the entire idea behind burning Loras is that Martin wants to rob the Knight of Flowers of his beauty, which has really seemed to be the cornerstone of his character (along with his tourney prowess). I think an ugly, bitter Loras would be far more interesting anyways.

True, plus it's a bit ironic that Sansa's "favorite knight" becomes even more horribly burned than that other, far less gallant "knight" in her life, Sandor Glegane.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

I'd love for this to be the case, but I doubt it, though I have to admit it is possible.

I also don't consider Loras to be much of a schemer. Though he was tight with Renly (ha! ha!), who was doing some scheming. And also in on the joke of the Margaery/Renly "wedding."

He volunteered because he feared his homeland was going to be sacked by Geryjoys and Cersei wouldn't lend a hand until the siege was over.

It seems rather strange as to why the Tyrells and Redwynes would stay at Dragonstone while their lands are being attacked.

They were at Dragonstone to fight basically the Lannister war. They should have raised sails and made to the west coast of Westeros.

[chiffchaff]

Loras wasn't burned on Dragonstone. It was Margaery who was burnt. They switched places after Loras offered to go to Dragonstone for Cersei. They look so much alike that nobody noticed at first, but when Margaery (Loras in disguise) went to the Great Sept to celebrate Maiden's day, the church accosted him and found out he was not a maid...but a man!

[Guest]

I think the entire idea behind burning Loras is that Martin wants to rob the Knight of Flowers of his beauty, which has really seemed to be the cornerstone of his character (along with his tourney prowess). I think an ugly, bitter Loras would be far more interesting anyways.

I had that thought too but in a way, Martin is already doing that by crippling Jaime. IMO I don't think he would repeat such a similar theme with two characters.

[Guest]

Maybe Loras and the Hound can have some tea parties together in the I'm scarred by scared of hot things club. I think the concept of the bitter burned man on a revenge quest is take care of with Sandor already, so why use the same formula twice?

:agree:

[-42-]

I had that thought too but in a way, Martin is already doing that by crippling Jaime. IMO I don't think he would repeat such a similar theme with two characters.

I think it's just Martin's MO. He strips away something central to a character's identity, then lets them reestablish themselves. This is more than just Jaime and his sword hand, Bran has no working legs, Arya has no home, Dany lost the capacity to bear children (and her husband), Catelin loses her children and so on and so forth. That's one of the reasons Martin's characters are almost all fairly dynamic, because they must cope with loss as best (or as worst) they can.

I think wounds will test Loras, as readers we still don't know much about Loras on a personal level, and his method of dealing with his scars will come to define how we perceive him as readers. My best guess is that Loras will serve as a Hound of sorts, but one who hides his scars instead of one who hides behind them. All in all it's just more compelling, even if the world is short one more pretty boy.

[Marcus of the South]

I don't think that its established that Stannis assassinated Renly because most people in Westeros still blame Brienne/Catelyn.

The OP's theory sounds good. It'd be a shame for YET ANOTHER character to die off screen.

It's possibly established for Loras though, because he interviewed Brienne in detail about it after she arrived in King's Landing.

However it's not in general circulation because Tarly's men question whether they should arrest her for it in AFFC.

[ishmael]

Yes, most likely, the Church and them taking Marg wasn't part of a Tyrell plan. That being said I have to agree with the OP, I always had the feeling that Loras was not hurt. Was not injured. I can't say exactly why. I know that doesn't help you guys who need/want evidence. But I honestly think he is fine. I feel like the Lannisters balk at doing anything to the Tyrells because they under estimate them, and they know the renown Loras has. Loras has been his sister's shield. But the Queen of Thorns is cunning and I think she has a plan that arches over Cersei and anything she has put together. And while I don't know exactly why or how, I feel like this is part of her scheme.

I agree with you. I have never taken the "Loras is near death from his injuries" very seriously. Cersei's plan to trap Marg was already initiated, and as you point out, Loras has been her shield. Him "volunteering" to lead the attack gets him physically out of KL, but him being injured makes it impossible for him to help Marg in any form. This provides Cersei with a false sense of protection and she accelerate her plan to remove Marg, and because of her over-confidence and haste, her plan ends up landing her right in the middle of the Faith's crosshairs. I also agree that Marg getting arrested was not expected, but in the end her only accuser is has confesssed that he lied.

[Brienne the Beauty]

IMO I don't think he would repeat such a similar theme with two characters.

On the other hand, just how often can he reuse the "Beauty and the Beast" story? There's no rule that says we can't have two burned guys in the same story.

Loras being burned in battle after he has had 20 years to get used to being tremendously handsome is far different emotionally than Sandor being burned by his own brother as a small child and no-one caring. It will leave entirely different psychological scars. Loras will go from being the pretty boy that everyone wants to a disfigured man that people shy from in the streets.

Sandor never had time to get used to being attractive, so the real wounds for him are that he learned that evil is not punished, but rewarded, by the society he lives in. We don't know yet what Loras will learn. It's highly possible that he will completely crack under the horror of it all. I don't see what he has left to live for, especially if he is crippled by his wounds, removing the last thing he might be proud of - his martial prowess.

[Targaryen loyalist]

The Tyrells are long-standing Targaryen loyalists, they sided with Aerys during Robert's rebellion (never forget).

For sure they are not plotting with the Iron Men, the Northmen or Stannis.

The Tyrells might have conquered Dragonstone and use it as an "offer" to Dany in an attempt to "beat" the Dornish in winning Dany's favour. If Loras is still alive he can be a good match for Dany.

[Brienne the Beauty]

If Loras is still alive he can be a good match for Dany.

Heh, I don't think he's a good match for any woman. Willas however is still single, and the heir to Highgarden.

[Ser Bullitin The Board]

Loras is a piece, not a player. Queen of Thorns said "Your gonna do this. No, I'm not telling you why." So he did. What the rest of the plot is, remains to be seen.

Of course it could be that our brave teenage hero was just a bit to rash and got deep fried for it. Nothing more. I think whatever track Lord Martin has planned will depend on factors outside this plot, if there is one. It seems to me that Loras was thrown in as a wild card from the get go, to be moved as fitted the main schemes at the time.

[Todd Sand bastard of AZ]

The obvious answer is that Ser Loras is sailing to Meereen to court Daenerys, along with half of the cast.

[Steel_Wind]

Yes, most likely, the Church and them taking Marg wasn't part of a Tyrell plan. That being said I have to agree with the OP, I always had the feeling that Loras was not hurt. Was not injured. I can't say exactly why. I know that doesn't help you guys who need/want evidence. But I honestly think he is fine. I feel like the Lannisters balk at doing anything to the Tyrells because they under estimate them, and they know the renown Loras has. Loras has been his sister's shield. But the Queen of Thorns is cunning and I think she has a plan that arches over Cersei and anything she has put together. And while I don't know exactly why or how, I feel like this is part of her scheme.

There is not much doubt in my mind that the Tyrells faked Loras' injuries. Littlefinger and the Tyrells are behind it.

Point 1: Lady Taena Merryweather is a Tyrell spy. Cersei is too stupid to see it, but the reader gets it. She was Tyrell from the very start, so that everything we see Cersei do and say that Lady Taena sees, we know that the Tyrells know it -- more or less as it happens. That is enough on its own to prove to the Tyrells that Cersei is the enemy. The Tyrells know that Cersei must be removed and act proactively.

Point 2: The Kettleblacks are Littlefinger's spies, remember? The order by Cersei for the attempt to seduce Margaery so Cersei could accuse her of treason was known to the Tyrells almost immediately for this reason. One of the Kettleblacks killed the previous High Septon at Cersei's order. That means Littleginfer knows it -- and the new High Septon knows it too.

Point 3: It was Lady Taena Merryweather's questions to Cersei which caused Cersei to recall that only the Kingsguard can Champion the Queen. If Cersei had failed to recall it, Lady Taena would have reminded her. But Cersei does recall the detail. Lady Taena smiles and leaves the story. Her task is done and she flees King's Landing.

Point #4: The confession that triggers the arrest of Margaery and Cersei comes from Kettleblacks -- again, Littlefinger's "dagger". So the arrests of both Queens are triggered by Litlefinger.

Loras injuries suffered on Dragonstone were exaggerated because his role in a trial by combat is pivotal. Loras is not truly seriously injured because the Tyrells need him available to champion Margeary. But then he would ALSO be available to defend Cersei, who could call upon him in defence of her own "innocence" in a trial by combat. So Cersi has to believe that Loras is so injured that she would never call upon him to defend her.

That's the conspiracy. And it's not that far out there. :)

[History of Westeros]

You're probably right about that being part of his character but one little thing slightly suggests otherwise. He used base techniques to defeat The Mountain. If he is as reckless as everyone thinks he is, then why bother? To me, that shows a more cautionary attitude. Reckless Loras would have just fought him fair arrogantly thinking he would win no matter what. But he didn't do that. Because he may be smarter than he gets credit for ;) And I refuse to believe otherwise. Lol! :)

That does not suggest otherwise. Using a trick to help win (it was not the only reason he won.. it's mentioned many times that he is a superb jouster) doesn't do anything to negate the mountain of evidence that he's brave and arrogant enough to lead a charge.

[History of Westeros]

Heh, I don't think he's a good match for any woman. Willas however is still single, and the heir to Highgarden.

Also there's that whole Kingsguard problem.. you know.. they don't marry etc.

Even if not for that, clearly Willas would be the one they'd try to marry Dany to if they could, as he is firstborn and an eventual Lord. Loras is far beneath him, being only a knight.

[History of Westeros]

I think it's just Martin's MO. He strips away something central to a character's identity, then lets them reestablish themselves. This is more than just Jaime and his sword hand, Bran has no working legs, Arya has no home, Dany lost the capacity to bear children (and her husband), Catelin loses her children and so on and so forth. That's one of the reasons Martin's characters are almost all fairly dynamic, because they must cope with loss as best (or as worst) they can.

I think wounds will test Loras, as readers we still don't know much about Loras on a personal level, and his method of dealing with his scars will come to define how we perceive him as readers. My best guess is that Loras will serve as a Hound of sorts, but one who hides his scars instead of one who hides behind them. All in all it's just more compelling, even if the world is short one more pretty boy.

Also, Loras is nowhere near as central a character as the others he is being compared to in this light.