[Book/TV Spoilers] GOT Overall Review

[The hairy bear]

First of all, I'd like to make somewhat of a criticism of the aSoIaF fanbase. I've been closely following the westeros.org boards and the winter-is-coming.net blogposts after each episode, and after the season's end also. To me it seemed that people were not being critical enough.

The first season proved that Game of Thrones is one of the best, if not THE BEST TV series of all time.

:huh:

[PestilencE]

Catelyn Stark- It seems to me she is described as prettier in the book, moreso than this plain looking actress. Otherwise well played though.

I wouldn't call Michelle Fairley plain or ugly, not by any means, but it seems to me like the make-up artists uglied her up a bit too much. If you check out the thronecast with Michelle Fairley, you'd see that she looks much more colorful and vivacious in the interview. The writers decided to dull her appearance as Catelyn Stark a bit, so that it can go along with her grief for Bran and Eddard. However, they might have went a bit too far.

[The hairy bear]

I can't avoid the obvious question of what will happen if the show gets ahead of Martin's output rate. And, frankly, I'm disappointed that so many are avoiding it.

Well, to me it seems that the evasion of this question is a tacit understanding that the show was initially planned to not have more than 2-3 seasons. I'm not OK with that, because, in the end, nothing meaningful will have come out of the whole effort, except for the fact that us book fans got a massive jerk-off of the soul, seeing our favorite book being made into a tv show. That would be pretty self-indulgent.

I've seen lots of discussions about this subject, so I wouldn't say we're avoiding it. But at the end its a fruitless debate. There's nothing D&D can do to avoid this problem, and the only option is face the situation when it comes (if it ever comes). And as they have said in interviews, it's a problem they'd love to have because it means that they've got at least 5 seasons.

Personaly, I don't worry about it at all. If they don't have source material, D&D can write their own conclusion for the series based on what GRRM has told them.

[pleonasm]

Something to consider... the filming location. Unless I'm mistaken, King's Landing would have been shot in Malta. And since filming takes place during the summer months, that usually means clear, cloudless skies and warm days in exterior shots. Also, shooting dawn and dusk shots is difficult logistically due to the small time windows as the sun's movement would be most noticeable at those periods. Even after an hour, the lighting would be completely different.

I do wonder about using Malta as location for King's Landing. I do realize it has some 'medival like' exteriors used for some of the street scenes, water front, and the Great Sept, but given how little was shot outside, I wonder why they really bothered going there (not counting the scenes with Dani and the Dothraki). Is significantly cheaper to film in Malta vs. Northern Ireland?

Surely any city with a medium sized studio back lot could have been converted to King's Landing? A couple of streets, open courtyards, a garden, the throne room, etc...

Regardless, there is still no excuse for not using a water tower to create rain for the Jamie sword fight with Ned. Compare the wet muddly fist fight between Jack and Ethan Rom in the jungle in Hawaii in Lost vs. the Malta sword fight between Jamie and Ned. There is no comparison. One is movie quality, the other is reminiscent of just about any cable tv action offering.

[merveilleux]

Cersei- my feelings here are the same as Pestilence posted in his original post. Headey gets the bitchiness and the viciousness of book Cersei across quite well, but book Cersei was also seductive, exuberant. That is totally missing with Headey, and a disappointment. She is only one aspect of the character, and about as seductive as the Septa.

Can you please explain to me how this is Headey's fault? She's had very, very sexual roles – this is something of a departure for her. She could easily sex it up, if the writers wanted her to. Her wardrobe alone is an indication of how they've decided to write the character. I'd really like someone to tell me how Lena could have been seductive in scenes completely stripped of any sexuality by the writers. They've eliminated all of her innuendo.

[Goblonaut]

Why doesn't anyone wear a hat at the wall? You'd expect that it would be the first think you'd wear if it was cold(like it is on the wall). Though they might have left the hats for aesthetic reasons

[Mattyp]

Personally I disagree with all the Lena Headey hate. I think people are judging her characterisation of Cersei based on all the novels, and not just AGOT. Cersei never comes across as seductive in AGOT (in my opinion anyway) and instead just plays the cunning and cold puppet master, which I think carried across into the show very well.

[Davos' Middle Finger]

To those people who are worrying about the show overtaking Martin, I quote Marlo Stanfield from The Wire: " That sound like one of them good problems."

[PestilencE]

And what a frankly idiotic way to start your post... "a criticism of the aSoIaF fanbase" and that "people were not being critical enough" What? Are you accusing people of not posting their true opinions? And if not, that they somehow should NOT post their own opinions? (since your want them to be more critical)

Here is a good example of what I am accusing people of:

(post from another thread)

The lack of major battle scenes doesn't really bother me.

If I had to choose between a major battle scene and the scene where Syrio takes down the Lannister guards with a wooden practice sword I choose the latter.

People have a way of excusing and remaining blind to the shortcomings of things that they are emotionally attached to.

No, you can't say that the lack of Tyrion's battle is something that "doesn't really bother" you.

The lack of Tyrion's battle is something that you definitely need to man up about, and concede to yourself that the TV show has faltered, and that you didn't like the cringeworthy way in which the showing of the battle was evaded.

That's what I meant. I hope I made myself clear, and made you agree.

bump, btw. More opinions is thanks. Recently, I somewhat surprisingly, and even disillusioningly, discovered that Emilia Clarke is verily despised by quite a few. Reveal yourselves!

[Iotun]

Here is a good example of what I am accusing people of:

(post from another thread)

People have a way of excusing and remaining blind to the shortcomings of things that they are emotionally attached to.

No, you can't say that the lack of Tyrion's battle is something that "doesn't really bother" you.

The lack of Tyrion's battle is something that you definitely need to man up about, and concede to yourself that the TV show has faltered, and that you didn't like the cringeworthy way in which the showing of the battle was evaded.

That's what I meant. I hope I made myself clear, and made you agree.

bump, btw. More opinions is thanks. Recently, I somewhat surprisingly, and even disillusioningly, discovered that Emilia Clarke is verily despised by quite a few. Reveal yourselves!

Egh... Man up and concede about the show faltering? How condescending - Well here's one for you, No, I. Did. Not. care that Tyrion's battle was not shown, neither did it bother me, much like the other viewer. No its not some kind of self-delusion because this is something I like. I could even argue that deviating from the book in that instance was the best choice.

But please don't try to tell us what we are thinking but are too cowardly to admit... give me a break.

[Dickon Manwoody]

Hey everyone - it's been really fun reading all of your opinions. I've modified some of my gripes and commendations in lieu of what I've read. No change of opinion, just felt like I didn't need to explain so much now that I feel a bit more validated in some ways :)

General Bugbears

Queen Cersei is too tame. She seemed a lot meaner in A Game of Thrones, the novel. And she was Jaime's equal. Here we see a scene early on in the season when he subdues her and she lets him. Not even because she enjoys it. And that scene, where she's mad at Jaime because he threw Bran down the tower? She was a lot more unpleasant about it in the book. A lot more Cersei. Jaime definitely didn't have the last word on that one. Actually, he never does. Her scene with Lancel also just doesn't really work. It seemed out of character for the GoT Cersei, although I can't quite fanthom why... Help, anyone?

Robb Stark's nomination by his bannermen for Kinghood is rather uninspiring because they've only managed to squeeze one major battle in 10 episodes. In the novel, you got to experience how hard-going it was for an inexperienced, not very charismatic (at first) boy went at war. Sometimes he even had to shrug his mother off his back - she also struggled with herself because she didn't want him to seem weak. He had to get past all of that. Here it seems too effortless.

Knight Commander Mormont's speech to Jon Snow about Longclaw makes no sense now that nobody knows he's called The Bear. Non-readers of the novel may miss out on the significance of Mormont's sword having a bear on it before he swapped it for a dire wolf.

Samwell Tarly's back story was there for maybe four minutes, while he rambled on about why he was sent to the wall. But nothing after that. I felt his Dad issues were glossed over. Hell, this kid's Dad wanted to throw his son down his horse and kill him and tell his wife it was an accident! Here he's mostly talking about boobs. But even thoughts of the bounciest, biggest boobs cannot dispell the lingering sorrow of parental neglect. The beauty about Sam's character is that he earned everything he became, step by step. Sam's the bravest, most honorable, most loyal coward ever and I want to see more of his transformation. Since most of it does come later, I hope to see more of that in Season 2.

(Initially, I was worried that I'd be one of very few people who didn't like the cornucopia of nudity that was tumbling out of nearly every episode... After browsing through the forums, I feel more validated, especially on the Littlefinger the Pimp Daddy scene. And the "Show it to me one last time!" Theon scene.)

Viserys Targaryen. With that scene of him riding happily on the horse-drawn cart toward an unpleasant situation cut out and swapped for a sex scene, Viserys's death scene lost most of its punch. A crown for a king! Just doesn't do it like A Crown for Sorefoot King! to the sound of raucious Dotheraki laughter. The sex scene did do its part to remind us how much of an unpleasant shit Viserys was, but I prefer the whole story with the carts. Blueblood boy wants to be king, finally gets treated like one and finds out the joke was all on him and everybody but him knew about it. Said noble boy gets mad, only to be laughed at and christened Sorefoot King. Later, he gets crowned.

General Awesomeness

All the scenes with Arya and Syrio Forel. Just like in the novel, Syrio here wins at life.

As previously mentioned by somebody, the scene where Catelyn stoically walks by her son's bannermen into the woods to have a private cry for Ned. Short but powerful.

Tyrion's confession scene at Batty Lysa's. Cersei's situation now seems even more disturbing since she's possibly consumed bodily fluid from both her brothers. Not that she knows that...

Old Nan's bedtime story scene. RIP Margaret John.

Some of the scenes with Drogo and Daenerys. I'm completely unromantic, but the tender scenes between them that mirror the rougher ones from earlier on are *groans* really sweet.

Charles Dance owns Tywin Lannister. When he was carving up the stag, I couldn't help but think, "House Baratheon is super dead now."

All the damn set pieces. Loved GoT's version of the Moon Door.

Crazy Lysa is real crazy and as somebody else mentioned, although she's skinny instead of slightly plump, it totally works for her.

[Dietrich]

Greetings all,

(duplicate)

[Dietrich]

Greetings all,

First off, I've never read any of the books and have read limited info about the series online. I have no clue what will happen after S1, nor can I judge how closely the HBO series relates to the literature. I don't even remember half of the characters names. ;)

That being said, I've been a fan of the fantasy genre since I was a kid. Read The Hobbit and LOTR three times during my teen years and early 20s. Read most of the Dragonlance series (up until the 5th age garbage), the Forgotten realms series, LeGuin's Earthsea series and the Narnia books. I stopped reading in the genre back in 1993-94, shortly before GRRM published the first book of the series. Don't have much time to read for leisure anymore, but I saw a preview of GoT and decided to check it out. After all it's HBO, right?

Well, I was disappointed. 'The Game' was somewhat lame. While there were beautiful sets and costumes, the cinematography was excellent and the sex/gore scenes were well executed, I found the story to be rather dull and uninspiring. 90% of the characters are thoroughly unlikeable. Others mentioned 'having patience' as the story unfolds slowly. I watched all 10 episodes over the course of three days. I feel teased and frustrated more than anything. Kinda like I just watched 10 hours of a prologue or prequel. The last two episodes (9, 10) were especially anti-climatic and irritating.

What's cool:

-Its a fantasy series made for adults, not kids and teenagers (ala Harry Potter). No goofy talking hats here.

-Beautiful sets and locations that obviously took lots of time and energy to design

-Costumes, ditto above

-Nice eye candy in the sex scenes

-Good violent/gory action scenes

-Few intriguing characters that make you actually care about them. Problem is, none of them are taller than 5 feet. Tyerion is by far my favorite and the most original in the series. The kids are all excellent, especially the tomboy, Joffrey (love to hate him), and Bran.

-'Littlefinger' was wonderfully deceptive and insidious. Jaime Lannister was quite rotten. Benjen Stark was one of the few men with balls. Jon Snow also seems interesting...though heavily cliched.

-A few interesting side-plots (the hound vs the mountain, tomboy's sword lessons with eccentric swashbuckler, psychotic queen breastfeeding her 10 year old son)

-The Dathraki; interesting horse-culture, well played. However, they practically resemble the historic Mongols in most aspects. Geez, why didnt they just get Asian actors?? They have English/Irish actors playing soldiers and characters in the castles resembling those in the British Isles and northern Eurpope. The clue phone is ringing...

-Catelynn Stark as one of the few strong female (non-whore) characters.

-Blonde guy Targaryen (looks a little too much like an elf from LOTR)...ruthless and arrogant. Greatest death scene ever!

-The houses as distinct entities, mottos, sigils. Original.

-Dire wolves!!

-Old guy who welcomes Lady Stark to his bridge/keep. Surrounded by his dysunctional family. Reminded me of a Jerry Springer episode.

-'Magic' is practically non-existent, which makes the world more gritty and real.

What sucks:

-Some of the acting and dialogue. Probably doesn't have as much to do with the actors as it does the stale script. The writing is poor in most episodes.

-Ned Stark, the protagonist, was craptacularly wooden and shallow. His rigid loyalty and convoluted sense of 'honor' costs him foolishly. Good thing his sigil is a wolf. He acts like dog through the series (dumb and loyal). He's the kind of guy that would come to a complete stop at an intersection on a dirt road in the middle of the country with no other vehicles around for 10 miles. I was surprised by his departure though. Thought he would be the big bad-ass for the rest of the series. Sean Bean has much more talent than the direction/script allowed for.

-Robb Stark. Not a very strong character or a convincing leader. Not a strong presence. Even more shallow than his father.

-Dany. Forces herself to enjoy being raped on a nightly basis and falls in 'love' with the brutish thug that is the perpetrator. Disgusting. I grew tired of her meek, naive, Bambi-esque qualities. To her credit she grows stronger as the show progresses. I can only imagine her power in S2.

-Renly. Good actor, but I didn't understand his part. Why didn't he get the crown? Not enough character development there.

-Cersia. Beautiful actress, but she doesn't seem to be able to articulate more than 2 or 3 different facial expressions through the whole series. And that annoying "I'm concerned" smirk she wears...

-Needs more emphasis on archery weapons. Besides dude who shot the raven in one scene, we don't see enough of it.

-Zombies?! C'mon...I know they need a universal enemy as a plot device, but please, something more original.

-Over-emphasis on female characters as whores and prostitutes. Misogany is subtly implied throughout the series. Sex scenes were nice, but there were too many of them and often didn't add to the story. Then again, its HBO.

-Plagued with unoriginal cliches and stereotypical characters and interactions that have been done to death over and over in other fantasy novels. Boy growing into man through hard work, girl wanting to marry prince, girl wanting to be a fighter like a man, an ancient evil awakens, a resentful heir to the throne who wants what is 'his', backstabbing, scheming, revenge, retribution,

dragons, overtly sadistic characters you can't wait to see suffer a violent death, etc.

-All of the main characters are from families of wealth and privelege. The 'common man' in the series is almost entirely ignored! Some, like Tyerion's henchman (Bron?), are portrayed as brutish knuckleheads. Peasants are portrayed as unwashed imbeciles. And don't get me started on the 'wild people'. The entire series is centered around the upper crust of Westeros...the wealthiest,

most prestigious top 5% of the population. I'm sure the other 95% of the population has a part to play...where are they?

-(mentioned elsewhere) Lack of large battle scenes that would bring about a sense of 'epicness' that I'm sure the books communicate. The jousting scenes seemed like a fake exhibition at a RenFest.

-Dialogue was weak and predictable in most scenes:

*Character A to B:"You are a bastard, worthless and will never be better than me"

*Gory action scene

*Character A to B:"You suck and I'm better than you"

*Steamy sex scene

*Chracter A physically abuses or kills character B

*Gory action scene

*Character A to B:"I have more money and power than you, therefore you suck!"

*Steamy sex scene, possibly including a rape

*Character A to B:"You are weak and undeserving. I am everything and you are nothing."

*Less-than-gory fight scene

*Character A to B:"You will never amount to anything, because I'm better than you."

etc, etc, etc...

:)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Funniest scene: Lord Lannister-"Who was your father?", Bronn-"Uh, you wouldn't know him"

2nd funniest: Tyerion being trampled by his troops and losing consciousness before the battle starts

I may or may not read the novels while waiting for S2. I know this series can only get better, given its underwhelming introduction. Let me know what you think...

[Dietrich]

Dickon, I like what you said about Robb. That makes more sense. I didn't get a good feel for who he was in the TV series. He came across as shallow and boring, not much of a leader. I'll have to read the books and see the difference.

[Eddison Tollet]

Well, the dust has pretty much settled now, and everyone has had the time to do a rewatch (or two, or more), and evaluate their overall impressions of the season, and to make an objective assessment of said season. At least I did, so here are my thoughts.

First of all, I'd like to make somewhat of a criticism of the aSoIaF fanbase. I've been closely following the westeros.org boards and the winter-is-coming.net blogposts after each episode, and after the season's end also. To me it seemed that people were not being critical enough.

Now, don't jump at me. I think that HBO managed to create an amazing TV show. The very fact that my favorite ever book series got translated to the TV screen is a pure mental orgasm for me, and I could barely wait for Mondays to get my required dose of GoT goodness.

However, as great as GoT is, it's not perfect. I don't really expect it to be perfect, but I expect it to be better. And we all know that it CAN be made better, as soon as people stop admiring Tyrion's slapping of Joffrey and start pointing out the show's flaws. We are the authority on the books, after all. Whose opinion should count more than ours when it comes to improving the TV show based on those books? So start criticising, and do it harshly!

The show was far from perfect imo, but if some ppl genuinely thought it was, then that's their opinion.

Well, that was a negative start. The rest of my thoughts, both praiseful and critical, will be in the form of random scribbles:

Cinematography

Right now, the cinematography is merely adequate. Whoever's in charge should try to make what we see on screen play out more interestingly, more lively.

There were several scenes that were quite botched. Off the top of my head, two of these were Arya's first murder, and the repelling of the wight. The former was especially bad, due to the fact that the whole damned episode was named after it.

The revealing of the dragons was a bit of a letdown too.

Didn't have a problem with the cinematography in general.

Didn't mind Arya killing the stable boy, I'm not really sure what else you could want there.

I agree with Jon fighting the wight, I thought that scene was underwhelming in comparison to what I expected. I think I even read an interview with Kit Harrington where he said that he only had one shot at setting the wight on fire, and he thought he kinda botched it.

Casting

I think the casting team did an amazing job picking the actors. Simply amazing. I have no complaints, except maybe for David Bradley, who just doesn't look old and weak enough to be Lord Frey! But that's really not a major thing, as he can certainly act the old one.

Didn't really have a problem with David Bradley.

My main complaint for casting would probably be Shae. I just didn't like the actress or her accent, I was disappointed with their choice there.

Acting

Like I said, I believe the actors were chosen very well, but I still think there are some problems with how a few of them portray their character. This may be either an issue of the writing team giving them bad characterisations, or just not a very good read of the character by the actors. Most notably:

- Book Cersei can be cold and bitchy, and she can be hot and seductive. I don't think Lena Headey is showing us much of the latter. I loved her initially, but at one point it became like watching Steven Seagal's daughter. I'd put the blame more on Lena Headey for this one.

The only other thing that I'd seen Lena Headey in was the Sarah Conner Chronicles, and I thought that show was terrible and she was a big reason for it being terrible. If she has any acting range beyond cold, angry, bitchy, I haven't seen it. On the bright side, cold/angry/bitchy is a big part of Cersei, so while that will probably never be a strength for the show for me, I think she's passable in the role.

- Aidan Gillen is struggling to hide his Irish accent, and it very sensibly limits his expressivity. He delivers Littlefinger's lines and actions in a very dry and monotonous manner. Where's the wicked maniacality of the book's Littlefinger?

I enjoyed Gillen's portrayal of LF. /shrug

- Shae. "Let's start with your last night in this world." *puke* Seriously, writing team? I actually like the actress, and think the changes to the character may end up being fun. But please give her better lines!

Agree. As mentioned above, I was not impressed with Shae.

Everything is too sunny

There is an annoying lack of variety in the meteorological setting.

Every fan of the book can agree that Robert's death in the TV show lacked the needed gravity. And everyone who can make a proper analysis can see that it was because it happened during the day, and under jolly sunlight. What the hell? It was supposed to be dark – with all its oppresiveness and uncertainty – and troubled Barristan fetching for Ned. NOT stupid lighthearted and foolish flailing Renly.

One of the most important scenes from the book, and they botch it like that! :(

Didn't bother me, and tbh, I'm sick of every movies/shows having every big scene being 'a dark and stormy night'.

Another one is when Ned confronts Cersei about the truth. And there we have it again – fucking sunlight, smack-dab in the middle of the Red Keep. It was supposed to be mystical and secluded, for heavens' sake!

And Lena, please don't be Steven Seagal's daughter again... Don't show your teeth and crease your forehead so much. :(

Headey, almost makes January Jones look like she has depth and range as an actress. The setting didn't really bother me.

Waiting for dawn to show the dragons was extremely anti-climactic. Everything was set up so nicely already! Why did you have to wait for the sun?!

Or Ned and Jaime fighting... Total lack of suspense there. No rain, no night, no thrill.

Embrace the sunshine, lol.

Locations

I loved the rawness of Winterfell, the honorable elevatedness of the Eyrie, the depressing starkness of the Twins, and the spacious exoticness of the Eastern continent.

But palms in Kind's Landing?! Come on, now! We get it that it is supposed to be a contrast with the North, but KL is not like that! This is a serious mischaracterisation of the palce. It should have been a decaying shithole, not a seaside resort, ffs...

yeah, yeah, we got like two shots of the supposed "misery" of the place: One was when Arya was outside the walls, and the other was just outside the window of Petyr's brothel. Not enough.

KL was different from how I imagined it, but I don't think it was bad.

Clothes, sets

Nothing much to say here. Amazing work. Just make the sets bigger.

Where did all the millions go?!

A Song of Ice and Fire deals mainly with power struggles, and that was translated very well on screen. However, we can't forget that there's also the epic scale, and a certain primal ENORMITY, that the books possess, but the show doesn't.

The shooting took place in Malta, Northern Ireland, and Morrocco. You can hardly get any cheaper than that. And yet, somehow the budget was not enough to have a five-minute battle?

Listen up, bosses: If you can't support the spoiled extras, then next time, you'll go to somewhere where you can sweatshop the fuck out of the local population, you hear? Come to Bulgaria! Hell, I'll work for free, and gladly take an arrow in the ass, as long as it can contribute to the grandeur. (It should. It's me, after all...)

Then we can have battles, CGI and non-claustrophobic sets.

We want our epicness, damn it!

The realities of a tv show budget are always going to put limits on the scale of things. You can always pause where battles are supposed to take place and watch a scene from Lord of the Rings or something :P

Sex, nudity, etc.

I was ok with all the so-called "sexpositions" that many people seemed to be at odds with. The only exception was probably the one with Ros and Maester Pycelle, because of how absurdly it stood in the episode's context. (I'll talk more about that later)

I especially loved the one with Littlefinger: "I'm going to fuck them." Brilliant!

The one with Loras and Renly – I was OK with the sex itself, but not very OK with how the respective characters were portrayed. Come on, now, Renly wasn't such a wimp in the books!

I didn't like the Tyrion + Shae sex scene. Cheesy dialogue, and a way overstayed welcome.

I was disappointed with the lack of a brutal rape when Dany was saving Mirri Maz Duur. Why?! :(

Hodor's dick was just stupid.

I thought some of them worked well and some failed. The LF scene was so over the top, I thought it was terrible.

Lack of important lines

Episode 4 ended well. However, would it have hurt to have a simple two-minute scene in the beginning of Episode 5, where we can get this oh-so-awesome exchange? Add an assertion by Catelyn that they're taking him to Winterfell, and Tyrion saying that his father would give good coin to whoever bears him the news of the "incident", and you have a great episode-opener, or at least much better than Ned + Barristan @ KL.

I'm pissed because everything in that scene played pretty perfectly, and then they decided to just NOT have that line. Why?!?!? Couldn't spare the five seconds? This is one of the most important lines in the series, ffs...

Small things, some would say, but it's exactly those details that make aSoIaF what it is. The show should make a point of not missing them.

There were definitely some lines that I didn't understand their reason for cutting.

Some comparisons to the books

I'm not one to whine about every minor difference from the book. On the contrary, I greeted most of the new additions and changes. Anything I disliked, I've mentioned already, and it isn't really that much.

The additional characterisation that the show gave us for some of the characters was done really well. Most of those scenes and exchanges that the book didn't have, or which we didn't see, such as Robert exchanging war stories with his guardsmen, or Cersei schooling Joffrey, were executed excellently.

One thing I thought worked even better in the show, than it did in the books was the Dothraki. The Dothraki were awesome. Partly due to Emilia Clarke's stunning performance (see below), partly due to Harry Lloyd's, partly due to the fact that Jason Momoa made Drogo a fucking wild animal compared to the books, partly due to a ton of other equally important things, the across-the-narrow-sea storyline really managed to work even better than it did in the books. (which is not to say that it sucked in the books)

The new scenes were often some of my favorites in the show. I agree about the Dothraki, I enjoyed Dany's arc on the show more than I did the book.

Conclusion

So where do we go from here?

The first season of Game of Thrones was a stunning success in my eyes, and a very promising start to the TV series. If Season 2 gets a bigger budget, I hope that we can get some true epicness.

The first season proved that Game of Thrones is one of the best, if not THE BEST TV series of all time. Season 2 will be the season that decides whether the show will satisfy itself with that title, or whether it will make the leap, and step up to be a worthy adaptation of the books. That's right, I am not convinced that GoT is a worthy adaptation of aSoIaF just yet.

Calling the show one of the best, if not the best series of all time, and then saying it might not be a worthy adaption seems silly to me.

I can't avoid the obvious question of what will happen if the show gets ahead of Martin's output rate. And, frankly, I'm disappointed that so many are avoiding it.

Well, to me it seems that the evasion of this question is a tacit understanding that the show was initially planned to not have more than 2-3 seasons. I'm not OK with that, because, in the end, nothing meaningful will have come out of the whole effort, except for the fact that us book fans got a massive jerk-off of the soul, seeing our favorite book being made into a tv show. That would be pretty self-indulgent.

The reason it's pointless and kinda stupid to worry about the show catching Martin is that it's rare for a show to beyond 5 seasons [seriously, look at how many pilots get shot, how few get picked up, then get a full season, then 2/3/4/5+ seasons]. That's what it would currently have to do to catch him, and that's assuming that in the intervening years he wouldn't have been able to finish another book, and that every season will cover an entire book, which seems unlikely to me, unless they completely gut A Storm of Swords. Also, I don't see this question being evaded, it's been asked plenty of times, and the general response seems to be something along the lines of 'the creators of the show have been told stuff about how the story ends, and if they do catch up, they'll make their version'. You also have the fact that George would presumably offer them even more advice and information about the story line if it got to that point.

Well, that's about it. I think I've made some fair points that are worth paying attention to. Comment and discuss. Or try to disagree – I'll have fun proving my point. :)

Bests

Just for fun.

Best episode

Episode 3, “Lord Snow” was the best. It's hard to explain why, really, but it just worked wonderfully from start to finish, and I adored everything in it.

Episode 8, “The Pointy End” follows closely behind, as does Episode 6, “A Golden Crown”.

Worst episode:

I can't say that there was any episode that was bad, but I definitely enjoyed episodes 9 and 10 much less than I did any other.

For 9, the lack of battles and wasting of time in Tyrion's tent is what I disliked.

And for 10, the writing team didn't have a very good endgame, so to speak, and the falling action wasn't done very well.

It was very apparent that they were struggling to fill the last two episodes with content, and there was a lot of excess and scenes of unneeded length, and even events from future books being crammed in. Catelyn's confrontation with Jaime is something that absolutely should have stayed within the boundaries of the second season, as it is an immensely charged event, and did not deserve a half-assed treatment like the one we saw in ep 10.

Yeah.

Completely disagree. 9 and 10 were two of my favorite episodes. The first few episodes were worth watching, but I didn't think the show really found it's stride until about 5 or 6, then it went on a nice run. Reasonable ppl can of course disagree.

Best scene

That's a tough call, but I'll go with the throne room scene from the end of episode 8. Masterful work, and a true epitome of the art of film. I don't know if Martin's writing of the episode extended to the screenplay as well, but if it did, then the man has earned my respect not only as a book writer, but also as a writer for the screen.

There are many other candidates: Tyrion in his father's tent, Robert sharing war stories with Jaime and Barristan, Viserys's crowning. Tons.

Amazingly enough, one of my favorites featured Lena Headey. The scene with Cersei and Robert where she asked about Lyanna was fantastic, Mark Addy was great there. Ned's execution, the King in the North, Tyrion's confession, lot of wonderful scenes.

Best actor/actress

Like I said before, the casting choices were superb. EVERYONE was great. It wasn't very easy to pick the best, but here goes:

For the more prominent characters, Emilia Clarke outdid everyone. She's only 23 or so, but her role was the most demanding, and she fulfilled it exceptionally well. Like I said before, the Dothraki storyline for me was much more interesting in the show than it was in the book, and I think that a lot of this is owed to Emilia's outstanding performance. I can't wait to see her in season 2, where Dany will become a real commander.

Honorable mentions:

Peter Dinklage and Maisie Williams go without mention. We all love them.

Mark Addy ruled.

Viserys was relegated to a more comic-relief type of role, which I'm not sure I approve of completely, but Harry Lloyd was excellent.

Kit Harrington started unsure, because the writers didn't give Jon Snow enough testosterone, but eventually he proved he was up to the task.

Jack Gleeson crushed faces.

Alfie Allen (can't wait to see him in s2)

For the not-so-major characters, Joseph Mawle (Benjen Stark) takes the cake. The way his performance represented the melancholy of the Starks was superb.

Honorable mentions:

Julian Glover (Grand Maester Pycelle)

Jerome Flynn

Ian McElhinney (Ser Barristan)

Elyes Gabel (Rhakaro. I swear, when he spoke Dothraki, he spoke it as if it was his mother's tongue)

Kate Dickie (Amazing. She and her son made a grand duo)

Mark Lewis Jones (Shagga)

Mia Soteriu (Mirri Maz Duur)

Owen Teale (Ser Alliser Thorne)

Best line

“You wouldn't know him.”

That's all, folks.

I can agree with most of the rest.

[Thaune]

Positives:

- HBO went nearly scene-by-scene according to the books (with some omissions and add-ins, of course, but the other books will have to be tweaked majorly if they're to work on-screen - especially AFFC and now ADWD)

- most of the actors were fantastic

- basically everything else, except:

Negatives:

- battles - they need to be on-screen.... get a camera wiz, play with the audience and camera shots, make a 40-men scene look like 400 (especially doable in the woods IMO), some CGR etc.

- RENLY - whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????

I don't get it. He's suppose to be this loveable, likeable, handsome, witty, charming strong personality....

And he's a weakling that seems to be controlled by Loras in the series. For no apparent reason as far as I can see.

[Iotun]

Positives:

- HBO went nearly scene-by-scene according to the books (with some omissions and add-ins, of course, but the other books will have to be tweaked majorly if they're to work on-screen - especially AFFC and now ADWD)

- most of the actors were fantastic

- basically everything else, except:

Negatives:

- battles - they need to be on-screen.... get a camera wiz, play with the audience and camera shots, make a 40-men scene look like 400 (especially doable in the woods IMO), some CGR etc.

- RENLY - whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????

I don't get it. He's suppose to be this loveable, likeable, handsome, witty, charming strong personality....

And he's a weakling that seems to be controlled by Loras in the series. For no apparent reason as far as I can see.

As regards Renly, I guess they just wanted to make him more likeable, and shift his character to one of a person who seems to actually care about the realm, to add more drama in season 2. In the book I didn't get the feeling of Renly as loveable and likeable - but as arrogant, cocky, egomaniac, and a bit of an ass.

Dietrich - eh, I guess we all have different tastes. I loved the series, but given your post, I doubt you will enjoy it, or the books. But we can't all like the same things I guess.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Greetings all,

First off, I've never read any of the books and have read limited info about the series online. I have no clue what will happen after S1, nor can I judge how closely the HBO series relates to the literature. I don't even remember half of the characters names. ;)

Greetings!

I'm sorry the show was a disappointment to you. I love the show and the books, of course... I also have a lot of friends who have loved the show and never read the books. It's very interesting to see your side of it becuase it's not something you generally see in a forum like this, so thanks for posting! :)

-Dany. Forces herself to enjoy being raped on a nightly basis and falls in 'love' with the brutish thug that is the perpetrator. Disgusting. I grew tired of her meek, naive, Bambi-esque qualities. To her credit she grows stronger as the show progresses. I can only imagine her power in S2.

To me this reads as if you're feeling what you're supposed to feel about the character, so I'm struggling to see what the problem is. You're meant to be sad for her and disgusted that she's basically sold as a slave and raped. And then you're supposed to be in AWE about how awesome she has become and will be in the future. I can't think of a transformation that compares to Dany's story in aGoT.

(For the record Dany/Drogo squidges me out, too, and there's a lot of discussion around here about whether Dany is actually a victim of Stockholm Syndrome. She didn't really have a lot of choices, though - make the best of her terrible situtation or go insane and die (we can see this was on the verge of occurring in episode 2)).

-Plagued with unoriginal cliches and stereotypical characters and interactions that have been done to death over and over in other fantasy novels. Boy growing into man through hard work, girl wanting to marry prince, girl wanting to be a fighter like a man, an ancient evil awakens, a resentful heir to the throne who wants what is 'his', backstabbing, scheming, revenge, retribution,

dragons, overtly sadistic characters you can't wait to see suffer a violent death, etc.

Well! It is a fantasy novel. He's definitely borrowing themes from the genre. Part of what I find attractive about it, though, is that the tropes don't exactly play out like you expect. He's playing with our expectations. I mean does the stoic honor bound protagonist die in any other fantasy series? No. In any other fantasy series is the young hero going to make his way in the world a moody arrogant prick who has to be slapped down every episode for his own good? No. And yet this describes Ned and Jon.

I agree some of the villains are kind of shallow though (e.g. Gregor, Joffery).

-All of the main characters are from families of wealth and privelege. The 'common man' in the series is almost entirely ignored! Some, like Tyerion's henchman (Bron?), are portrayed as brutish knuckleheads. Peasants are portrayed as unwashed imbeciles. And don't get me started on the 'wild people'. The entire series is centered around the upper crust of Westeros...the wealthiest,

most prestigious top 5% of the population. I'm sure the other 95% of the population has a part to play...where are they?

-----

Daenerys: "Viserys says the common people are sewing dragon banners and praying for our return."

Ser Jorah: "The common people pray for rain and a good harvest. They don't care what game the high lords play."

-----

Privilege and the plight of the common folk is a huge theme in the books. I think that it doesn't come across quite as much in the show aGoT most likely due to time. There is the Night's Watch, however, which is mostly made up of common folk. Also mild spoiler, Arya's storyline in the next season is entirely about the plight of commoners (she's pretending to be one as she travels to the North at the end of the last episode).

Also for the record I've never read a fantasy novel that has addressed this issue head on. Either things are mysteriously egalitarian and everyone is equal with no explanation for how or why, or all the characters are nobles. Some medieval historical fiction does go into it.

I may or may not read the novels while waiting for S2. I know this series can only get better, given its underwhelming introduction. Let me know what you think...

It's not for everyone! No one I've ever known has hated Ned Stark as much as you do - most people are rooting for him until his untimely end.

Perhaps give season 2 a try. Tyrion gets a ton of screentime, and since you're a fan, perhaps you'll enjoy the second season more.

[Dietrich]

MyDogisnamedD,

To me this reads as if you're feeling what you're supposed to feel about the character, so I'm struggling to see what

the problem is.

The 'transformation' in the story I can appreciate. I guess my gripe is that the TV show didn't do a very good job of showing

how the process took place. I'm sure its explained/described much better in the novels. First I thought it was the

actress, then I realized it had more to do with the storytelling limitations of the show. Seemed like one episode she's being

mounted with a deer-in-the-headlights look on her face, a few later she's magically in 'love' with Drogo/Genghis.

Stockholm Syndrome? Hits the nail on the head. Good points.

I mean does the stoic honor bound protagonist die in any other fantasy series? No.

Yes. Sturm Brightblade (Dragonlance: Dragons of Winter Night) bites the dust defending the Tower against blue dragons. Stoic

and honor-bound to the end. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_Brightblade

re: Joffery, I thought his character was very well played. A narcissistic teenager who has been groomed for the role by his toxic mother. I'm sure he is probably different in the book.

There is the Night's Watch, however, which is mostly made up of common folk. Also mild spoiler, Arya's storyline in the next season is entirely about the plight of commoners (she's pretending to be one as she travels to the North at the end of the last episode).

Nod, the Nights Watch...but they are a mixed bunch. And it's not like they are revolting against their masters. They are licking their bums and taking oaths. Slavery without a decent wage, lol! And though we as the viewers may feel some sympathy for them, in the end the message is the same: that their virtual slavery is somehow justifiable for the 'greater good'. I was hoping for a revolt to see Thorne's head on a pike. ;)

Good to hear about Arya. Something to look forward to.

It's not for everyone! No one I've ever known has hated Ned Stark as much as you do - most people are rooting for him until his untimely end.

Well, my review does come across as negative, but only because I expected more...given the budget and HBO on board. My first impression was 'all flash, no substance', but I kept watching, and after episode 3 I realized there are lots of things I liked about it. I even ordered the books, as I know it will enrich the experience of seeing S2.

BTW, I never said I 'hated' Ned Stark. I just found him to be a lame protagonist. Sean Bean's potential is far greater than what the role allowed. I was totally shocked by his departure. I kept thinking someone would show up at the last minute and tell Joffery that Jaime was in custody. I was rooting for him too, but I found him a hard guy to root for after a while.

Again, keep in mind that my perspectives are slanted and are soley based on the TV show. Tyrion may be a completely unlikable ass in the books. Guess I'll find out.

Thanks!

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

MyDogisnamedD,

The 'transformation' in the story I can appreciate. I guess my gripe is that the TV show didn't do a very good job of showing

how the process took place. I'm sure its explained/described much better in the novels. First I thought it was the

actress, then I realized it had more to do with the storytelling limitations of the show. Seemed like one episode she's being

mounted with a deer-in-the-headlights look on her face, a few later she's magically in 'love' with Drogo/Genghis.

Stockholm Syndrome? Hits the nail on the head. Good points.

Yeah the books have an advantage in being told from a limited first person perspective. So, we are inside Daenerys' head as she goes through the depression and then acceptance of her situation. So it's a bit easier to sympathize I think.

Still there are a surprising number non-book readers who are massive fans of the Dany/Drogo "romance" (I just don't understand...).

Yes. Sturm Brightblade (Dragonlance: Dragons of Winter Night) bites the dust defending the Tower against blue dragons. Stoic

and honor-bound to the end. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_Brightblade

Oops, I stand corrected. :)

re: Joffery, I thought his character was very well played. A narcissistic teenager who has been groomed for the role by his toxic mother. I'm sure he is probably different in the book.

No, it's a very close portrayal. I'd say most of the characters are about 90% similar to my reading of the book characters (YMMV). The show runners generally took the route of "softening" most characters just a little, making everyone a bit more sympathetic. It's a remarkably faithful adaptation in terms of plot and character. Not quite as much in terms of theme or details ("look" of the show).

Well, my review does come across as negative, but only because I expected more...given the budget and HBO on board. My first impression was 'all flash, no substance', but I kept watching, and after episode 3 I realized there are lots of things I liked about it. I even ordered the books, as I know it will enrich the experience of seeing S2.

Glad that the show managed to win you over despite all your misgivings! I personally don't know if I'd read the books first given a choice, but that's your call. Depends on how worked up you get about things different from the book in adaptations.

Again, keep in mind that my perspectives are slanted and are soley based on the TV show. Tyrion may be a completely unlikable ass in the books. Guess I'll find out.

Thanks!

YW! Also, Tyrion is an absolute ass, but he's very likable. :)