[BOOK/TV SPOILERS] New Path for Cersei?

[Phantomwriter05]

So this is something that caught my eye while watching tonights episode and wanted to know if anyone has seen it too.

I was sort of interested in one point.

But did anyone else see some sort of disgust in Cersei's attitude for Joffery. Like before she was always "You're my darling boy!" But now when they were doing the judgements and he had the singers tounge cut out ...

She sort gave him this look of pure loathing.

It seems sort of a stark contrast to her attitude of Joffery is always right in the books to one of "Who is this monster?" in the show.

I mean Joffery being forced to marry Sansa always seemed like a punishment from Cersei in all mediums ... but in the books it's because he balked his mother in front of everyone ... but in the show it was like she did it because of what he did to Ned.

It all seemed to come from Ned's beheading ... it almost seemed that apart of Cersei died with him ... even before she knew Jaime was Robb's Prisoner.

A little Ned/Cersei possibly? (My brain goes there alot these days)

So I guess the point I'm making is does anyone think that they're taking Cersei in a brand new direction for Season two where she doesn't have such a blind eye to Joffery?

I mean I don't see her taking Tryion's side, but I don't see her having the same caring for Joffery as much anymore.

Just my take.

[Ellroy]

Show Cersei is completely wrong.

There's not a lot to add. She isn't working at all and the changes made to her charachter will compromise the balance of the whole series if they not do something about that.

I understand and appreciate most of the changes they made to the charachters. I can see why they have done those choices for the TV show and in some cases I can even say that the new charachters are even better than the original (Renly and Sansa for example).

But for Cersei? Completely superfluos and not needed.

[nerd123]

I agree. I'd thought that they were setting up Joffrey's death as the catalyst that would turn the show Cersei into the book Cersei we all know and love to hate, but now I think they're just kind of confused.

I'm not sure how much of this is due to the writing versus Lena Headey. She hasn't read the books and it looks as though the script is ambiguous enough that it allows her room to make character choices that really don't make much sense in light of what's going to happen.

[Ellroy]

I'm not sure how much of this is due to the writing versus Lena Headey. She hasn't read the books and it looks as though the script is ambiguous enough that it allows her room to make character choices that really don't make much sense in light of what's going to happen.

Yep, for example, the cold, calculating, caring TV Cersei seems completely out of charachter in the Lancel scene.

[ferthepoet]

Yep, for example, the cold, calculating, caring TV Cersei seems completely out of charachter in the Lancel scene.

And that said Lancel also looks completely out of character, more self assured and confident than the character is supposed to be

[Ellroy]

And that said Lancel also looks completely out of character, more self assured and confident than the character is supposed to be

I don't agree on that one. Lancel seemed not so confident to me. It was more childish boosting than anything else and you allready get that all he wants to be is Jaime.

It's just the cold and holy Cersei of the TV series that seems out of place and akward.

[Ser Greguh]

I pretty much disagree completely. Cersei's problem was not that she was completely understanding of even the most monstrous actions of Joffrey's, it was that despite everything she witnessed, despite everything she saw, she was still unable and unwilling to do anything about them. She acknowledged that killing Ned was an enormous mistake, and she was almost certainly aware that his violent tendencies at court were excessive, it's just that she was morally bankrupt enough not to really care at the end of the day what happened to a few whiny peasants and/or rebels, and saw in these actions only the positive side: that Joffrey was at the very least a strong-willed leader willing to stand up to his enemies.

Her instinct was always to coddle and assume the best. She is the sort that is more than willing to acknowledge if something Joffrey said or did was a mistake, but is unable to use that as evidence to draw the conclusion that he's simply a monster, and can't be salvaged. Her problem was never a "blind eye", so much as it was a complete inability and unwillingness to take what her eyes saw and come to a logical conclusion. It's not that she doesn't see an action of his as bad or excessive, it's that she allows herself to get over it. My impression has always been that Martin was using this dynamic to show the underside of unconditional love.

[Wik]

To me, the Cersei complex is the old "If someone in my family does something bad, I can criticize them and punish them but no one else can say a word because your not part of our family but if someone outside of the family does something, I'm powerful enough to pass judgement and if you say anything I'll just toss some Tears of Lys in your drink and call it a day" type of thing.

She is/has been critical of Tywin, Kevan, Jaime, Joff and Tyrion. All of her major family members in the series. That being said, in her own twisted ways, she has also protected them and supported everything, good and bad that these characters have done, as long as it is something against another house or group of people that doesn't negatively effect Cersei.

The TV Cersei is wayyyyy to nice in my opinion. She is not nearly as cunning, bitchy, fierce, underhanded, or bat-shit crazy as the book Cersei. I don't directly blame Lena Headey, she has done her part as an actress filling a role, but if the show isn't conveying to her the character and she isn't/hasn't done the homework then there becomes a disconnect and the character is changed. To me, it feels like the series has intentionally (for whatever reason) taken this liberty with Cersei and made her much less of a complete psycho-crazy bitch and made the viewers almost more empathetic towards her. :tantrum:

[Phantomwriter05]

My take on the two cersei's is that the two work in the mediums they're in.

Book Cersei works in the book because if you make her just as honorible but dirty like Jaime, then veiwers would be okay by aFfC if she sat the throne. She needed to be slightly touched by all the deaths and abuse in her life.

Television Cersei works in the show because no one can be one deminsional in a show as complex like this. So to give Cersei a starting point as a cold ruthless woman who still has the slightest kinks in her armor for Ned and Jaime people will see a Journey to her downfall.

I know I piss people off by continuing to push this, but I just like the fact in the show she looked so dead inside after the execusion of Ned.

Though my shipper heart says it's because she had feelings for Ned (Headey says something like it in her character profile)

I think it's more a moment of helplessness that someone who showed her more compassion and caring in one statement than anyone had in he entire life was murdered in cold blood by someone she considered her puppet.

In a way I see TV!Cersei like Doctor Frankinstein realizing what her creation has become.

Just my two cents on the matter.

[merveilleux]

I'd be curious to hear the perspective of a certain fan on this – the kind that read the first book (and the first book only) in anticipation of the series. I know there are a fair few people like that (I myself pick up books before film adaptations sometimes) and I'd really love to know what they think of all of this. Why the first book? Because whenever I think about TV vs. Book Cersei, I find it very difficult to step away from the fact that I've read the latter books. Cersei has evolved (or devolved, depending on your perspective) throughout the series due to certain events, and it's hard for me to look at Book 4 Cersei and assess whether the television portrayal of Book 1 is accurate.

I do, however, remember thinking of Cersei as a calculating ice queen when I first read Book 1. I remember it clearly because I once recommended the series to a friend many moons ago and described her as a "cold evil bitch." Again, it's impossible to go back in time and remove the latter books from my awareness, but I don't think the Cersei of AFFC is the Cersei of AGOT. No, I'm not saying GRRM did a 180 – I'm saying time passed and shit happened and characters changed. The adjectives I would use to describe Cersei now are not the adjectives I used to describe Cersei then.

And when I think about it, the adjectives I used to describe Cersei then aren't that far off with the ones I'd use for her TV incarnation. Many of the qualities for which Cersei is now renowned emerged post-AGOT. She was not particularly well-developed in AGOT. In lieu of a time machine, there's no way to tell, but I have to wonder: if this TV show were being produced directly after the release of the first book, would there be the same perceived gap in the characterizations? Or, perhaps, have the last three books affected our perceptions in such a way that it's difficult to make an objective assessment?

If anyone in the "I read book one and then watched the show" camp happens to be around, I'd love to hear from you. One other thing I've noticed, though, on the topic of Cersei's sex appeal:

There is very little female sex appeal period in the TV adaptation. "But there are naked whores!" Yes, but there's a difference between sex and sex appeal. The show has very firmly established that rich and poor men alike avail themselves of the services of bouncy, naked women, and I suppose it was touched upon a bit in Daenerys's first couple of episodes, but aside from that, there has been a marked lack of female sexuality in general. Has there been an instance of a woman of any real social standing expressing sexual desire, save perhaps for Cersei's unspoken arousal in the tower scene? I can't recall any. And costumes aren't everything, but the wardrobe is such that the "Lena isn't curvaceous enough" debate is almost moot because you wouldn't be able to tell anyway.

The way the noblewomen dress and act in this show is really very sexually remote – almost Puritan, at times. It isn't a Cersei issue; it's a universe issue. There's been no sexual body language, innuendo, or expressed desire from any highborn female character in Westeros that I can recall whatsoever. And, curiously, GRRM didn't change that – in Cersei or any female character – in the episode he wrote. It's like all of the female sexuality is being funneled exclusively into the women who sell it.

Am I crazy, or has anyone else noticed this?