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Rooting for Lannister


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Despite my initial hatred for the Lannisters, and my wholehearted dedication towards the men of the North, there are actually a couple of Lannisters that I rather like, and who I hope will end up happy.

I really genuinely love Tyrion and Jaime, and have absolutely nothing against Kevan. I hope that Tommen and Myrcella come out of the series happy - they seem decent enough, especially considering how their brother turned out.

The only Lannister I really can't stand - since Jaime's change of heart - is Cersei. I don't think that I can put to words what I believe should happen to Cersei...

Off topic: Why is it that the two mothers of the series - Cersei and Catelyn - are the only two characters that I can't stand? :P

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There could be worse things than him ending up Lord of the Rock.

I doubt that. Kevan can be Lord of the Rock only if Tyrion dies or remains in exile. Do you really want that?

As an aside, Kevan seems to be the stupidest member of the family. He is blind to Tywin's crimes, he believes Tyrion guilty, he does not see the glaring difference between Jaime and Cersei.

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I didn't say that it would be the best thing...Cersei could end up Lady of the Rock. But I don't particularly mind where Tyrion ends up. He killed his father, I don't think he should really be inheriting his lands.

Everyone believed Tyrion guilty. And with good reason. The point was made in another thread...if we didn't have Tyrion's POV he would be the logical suspect.

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I didn't say that it would be the best thing...Cersei could end up Lady of the Rock. But I don't particularly mind where Tyrion ends up. He killed his father, I don't think he should really be inheriting his lands.

Everyone believed Tyrion guilty. And with good reason. The point was made in another thread...if we didn't have Tyrion's POV he would be the logical suspect.

Tyrion killed his father, and for that he deserves his lands PLUS a medal :D

As for Joff's death, it was totally obvious that Tyrion was set up, and it was more obvious that the whole trial was a show orchestrated by Cersei. Is it a believable scenario that Tyrion provoked a quarrel with Joff publicly, then poisoned Joff himself, then sent Sansa to run away while he remained to be captured and executed? Only a totally stupid person (like Kevan Lannister) can believe this.

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Obviously, I'm rooting for Tyrion, because whoever is not rooting for Tyrion at this point has a fire hydrant for a heart. I do like Tommen and Myrcella. They're little sweetypantses. But I want Danaerys to conquer! Maybe she'll let them live, but keep them in a cage with little dog food bowls with fudge in them. :) Kevan's cage could have a stripper pole.

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I want Tyrion to reach greatness. And I'd like to see Jaime get out of this whole thing alive and well. Myrcella and Tommen should'nt be monarchs, but I would like them to spend the rest of their days in comfort at Casterly Rock or something. I hate Cersei. And that wimp Lancel, too. I don't really care about the rest.

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I just want to jump in here and say that I am constantly rooting for the Lannisters, with the exception of Cersei. I think Jaime is the best character in the series; Tyrion is amazing, and their father- the baddest man who ever was - Tywin Lannister was basically the most powerful man in westeroes for, like, 20 years. I really think they are an incredible set of characters all of whom (with the obvious exception of Cersei) I read with great anticipation and satisfaction.

I think of all the families, the Lannisters act the most consistently: constantly in their own best interests. It makes them the most straight forward and least hypocritical of the clans: they are ALWAYS looking out for themselves at the exclusion of everyone else. They don't get lost in petty notions of honor (and then, of course, change their mind when its the most convenient; they aren't overly judgmental; they don't pretend to be something they are not. They are not trying to win anyone over. No. They are who you think they are.

I also like how the story revolves around them. Every character in the series is glued to a Lannister either through alliance or through enmity. Everyone either wants to raise the Lannisters up high or crush them. There is no middle ground.

And I think they are maybe the most interesting set of characters in the books.

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Both Jaime and Tyrion actually do get lost in "petty notions of honor" at times. For Jaime, examples are when he feels hurt that Catelyn and Brynden Tully think he has no honor, and for some reason that bothers him. For Tyrion, he cares a lot about what other people think of him and as a good Lannister always looking out for himself at the exclusion of everyone else he did well to force-marry Sansa, but then "petty notion of honor" prevented him from just raping her and securing his claim to the north.

Not that supposedly being the least hypocritical of the clans (something which I highly doubt; it's not like Tywin announces openly to the public that he is going to burn and kill the Riverlands down, it's not like he admits having whores, it's not like Cersei and Jaime announce that Robert's supposed children are theirs and it's not like they came out openly and said "yes, we killed King Robert and we're the boss now, Baratheons and Starks fuck off") would be such a good quality; Ser Gregor is not terribly hypocritical by any means but I doubt he is many readers favorite character, or seen as a shining example to follow in Westeros. I'll go for a maybe slightly more hypocritical but basically decent guy, like Arys Oakheart for example, instead.

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Tyrion is my favourite character,Feast for crows was a bit dull without him.

On the other hand Jaime was on my most hated list before book 3.and 4.

I hope both of them will survive.

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I just want to jump in here and say that I am constantly rooting for the Lannisters, with the exception of Cersei. I think Jaime is the best character in the series; Tyrion is amazing, and their father- the baddest man who ever was - Tywin Lannister was basically the most powerful man in westeroes for, like, 20 years. I really think they are an incredible set of characters all of whom (with the obvious exception of Cersei) I read with great anticipation and satisfaction.

I think of all the families, the Lannisters act the most consistently: constantly in their own best interests. It makes them the most straight forward and least hypocritical of the clans: they are ALWAYS looking out for themselves at the exclusion of everyone else. They don't get lost in petty notions of honor (and then, of course, change their mind when its the most convenient; they aren't overly judgmental; they don't pretend to be something they are not. They are not trying to win anyone over. No. They are who you think they are.

I also like how the story revolves around them. Every character in the series is glued to a Lannister either through alliance or through enmity. Everyone either wants to raise the Lannisters up high or crush them. There is no middle ground.

And I think they are maybe the most interesting set of characters in the books.

:agree: Agree with every single one of your words.

//... Except for Cersei. I read her chapters with great satisfaction too. :devil://

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Other than Cersei I either like all the Lannisters or am neutral about them. Jaime is absolutely awesome, Tyrion is great, Tommen is totally adorable and Myrcella is sweet but will have a rough life (but at least she'll live and be married to a Dornish Prince). It will completely stink when/if Tommen dies, he's one of the most innocent characters in the series but he's doomed because of his mother.

Kevan is likable and Lancel I'm neutral on. The other Lannisters all seem likable from the little hints we're given. So I hope they don't get wiped out. Cersei is the only one I want to see dead. Other than her it's a house filled with characters you can root for.

Kevan went along with everything Tywin did and said. He was the duty bound brother. But that doesn't excuse him from being part of Tywin's web. The Mad King was murdered and almost the entire family (along with the Dornish Princess) was butchered. The Mad King probably deserved to be killed. Rhaegar and other Targs, who weren't bat-shit crazy didn't. Especially the little babes. So if you think Jaime and Kevan aren't builty of anything, just remember, along with Tywin, those three were party to the murder of their rightful king, princess and virtually the entire Targ family. That doesn't seem innocent to me.

I'm sure Kevan was guilty of some stuff but things like the killing of the Targ kids was probably never even brought up to him. Tywin probably just gave the orders without ever consulting Kevan on that. I doubt he'd listen even if Kevan objected. You can't blame Kevan for things that we have no reason to believe he was a part of.

The horrible reaving in the Riverlands you can probably lay more at his feet, Tywin probably consulted with him a bit on how to use the dogs. But, just to what degree he's responsible, we don't know.

Lancel had sex with his cousin on several occasions and is now a religious zealot. This idiot can't seem to get anything right. He goes from a pompous, rich-boy squire who has sex with the queen who is his COUSIN and trying to be a hard ass, to being church mouse quite and a religious fanatic, mostly because he knows what he did was wrong. He is, of all the Lannisters, the most worthless and it isn't even close.

Actually it's the kingslaying that he feels the worst for, not so much sleeping with Cersei. He feels bad for being part of Robert's death. You're right that he's worthless but I don't have anything against him, I just feel bad for him. All he wants to do is something worthwhile beyond the "game of thrones". He has no interest in playing the game and wants to do something that he considers more meaningful, even if most people like his father think what he's doing is meaningless. I see no reason to dislike a guy who just wants to get away from petty politics.

If, somehow, Dany comes back and takes the throne, I think she will be merciful to many, but in the case of Jaime, Kevan and Cersei, assuming they are all alive if/when this were to happen, they are gonna be screwed.

Overall I can see Tyrion becoming Lord of The Rock or even becoming Hand of the King when they all return. I think it is a forgone conclusion that we will see him with Dany....

Yes there's no way Dany would be merciful to Cersei, and it's doubtful she'd be merciful to Jaime - although perhaps Jaime would be allowed to take the black if he explains how Aerys was going to burn the city. Why would she be merciless to Kevan though? She doesn't know anything about him and has no reason to hate him.

Tyrion will likely get Casterly Rock at the end of the series, it would be surprising to me if he didn't. That would presumably be his reward for loyal service. The question is will he "betray" Dany (the betrayal for love - perhaps for Jaime). In which case he may or may not get the Rock.

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Tyrion killed his father, and for that he deserves his lands PLUS a medal :D

As for Joff's death, it was totally obvious that Tyrion was set up, and it was more obvious that the whole trial was a show orchestrated by Cersei. Is it a believable scenario that Tyrion provoked a quarrel with Joff publicly, then poisoned Joff himself, then sent Sansa to run away while he remained to be captured and executed? Only a totally stupid person (like Kevan Lannister) can believe this.

Actually from their POV, it's quite believable Tyrion killed Joffrey. First they think Tyrion is pretty sketchy as an individual. It's believable that he killed Joffrey and simply fudged it up though, making it more obvious than he wanted too. Killers do that sometimes, assasination schemes don't always unfold perfectly.

Anyway it seems confirmed that he killed Joffrey when he killed Tywin. It just seems "obvious" from their point of view that he was responsible for both murders when that happened. As for "he set Sansa up to escape but remained", well he did escape later. So the Lannisters might believe "Tyrion always knew he'd get away".

It's not stupid at all to think Tyrion killed Joffrey. The Queen of Thorns and Littlefinger did an amazing job setting him up to take the fall.

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I think Kevan's getting quite an easy ride here. There's no doubt that the Kevan of AFFC who was giving Cersei a bunch of crap came across very well and seems to have a better sense of perspective than his niece but we do seem to be conveniently forgetting that he's been Tywin's right hand man for years. He may not have initiated the numerous atrocities that his brother was prepared to use to advance his cause, but that he stood shoulder to shoulder with Tywin throughout would suggest that he at least tacitly approved. It's also worth noting that he walked away because Cersei was making moronic decisions, not because he was making any sort of moral judgement on her.

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IIRC Kevan was heavily involved in AGOT with making sure Tywin's orders about "letting the riverlands burn" were executed - I think Kevan got the responsibility for making sure this got carried out (presumably he directed Gregor and co). There seems to be more than tacit approval here, he was apparently complicit with Tywin in organising the whole thing.

I am surprised that some Lannister supporters wholeheartedly agree with Rockroi that the Lannisters have no (petty) notions of honor. Especially when at least one of those is a serious Jaime fan, and let that be one of the Lannisters who is actually rather concerned about his honour and the way he is perceived by outsiders. When he meets the Blackfish, you can really see how it stings him when Brynden shows him what he thinks of him. Especially since Jaime's insistence about not having taken up arms against the Tully's (while he is besieging their castle and issuing death threats against Edmure, his wife and his unborn child), in that conversation, seems like the ultimate "petty notion of honor". Notion of honor, because he obviously did care at some level how Brynden would perceive it and how Brienne and Catelyn would perceive it (if they would have been there). And petty, because he is fighting the Tullys in service of the crown anyway but he doesn't just admit to Brynden that he doesn't care about any oaths to Catelyn and that he is acting in the interests of the Lannisters, full stop, promises to Catelyn be damned.

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I'm a fan of the lions! With the exception of Joffrey, all the Lannisters are pretty awesome, and I'm hoping we'll learn more about Tyrion's uncles in the next couple of books. I even like Cersei, although she's completely mad.

I'm assuming Cersei will die, but I'm hoping for Jamie and Tyrion to live through the series.

I found Tywin to be quite an interesting character too though, was a bit sad to see him go.

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I'd like to see Kevan and Lancel make it out alive, and Jaime too, but less so.

The rest (clueless children aside) can all die a wicked death, Tyrion first and foremost.

For what? Tyrion never did anything more wicked than Jamie. I can't imagine what you'd have against the dwarf.

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