Disturbing elements of the GoT fandom

[The Fan]

Consolidating this thread down to one sentence would look like:

"I am having trouble getting my children to watch the show because the exposed breast count eclipses the violent beheadings."

WTF? :wacko: It's simple, enjoy the show and watch it, or don't. Whinging on about someone else's creative work (art?) is....disrespectful?

[King D Evoker]

Why would anyone want their children to watch this, is it even suitable (or rated) for children?

I feel the first episode is the strongest ('most disturbing'), if you can live with that, the rest of the season should be fine.

Too much violence and the already pessimistic (at times) show can be too uncomfortable/gloomy to watch or continue lol... so I think the violence and sex scenes are just about right now, or could use slightly less raw violence, i.e. beheaded or mutilated scenes, but sex is always fine just don't take up too long or people will start switching priorities lol.

I think we also have to differentiate between sex and nude scenes. Nude need not be sexual. And prostitutes (irl too) are very commercial so should not expect too much passion.

[Marcus Adler]

I'd have to agree with Ran -- the overuse of sex scenes (to the point that certain battle scenes are skipped or only hinted at) is more HBO's doing than that of the fanbase. When fans of the series were waiting for the series to start (back in the days when these boards were all heresay and GRRM was giving us hints at who the actors would be) fans weren't screaming for more sex scenes. What they didn't want to see were toned down scenes from the book -- the trials of characters like Daenerys are paramont and the graphic scenes should remain that way -- but I don't think anyone was demanding more sex scenes than the book already had.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw a few threads mentioning the overuse of characters like Ros, or the preference of getting rid of some of the less necessary nude scenes to give more air time to conflicts that were actually in the book.

So, yes -- HBO would be more to blame. Given the shows that came on before and after it ("True Blood" anyone?) I can say with some certainty that HBO is more interested in the usual "sex=ratings" assumptions than the books' actual fanbase.

[Joanna vander Poele]

Ahh... as someone who's been an ASOIAF fan since I was 13, I do hope people aren't turned off or annoyed by those horrible, dreadful, awful fangirls!! It's a bit frustrating to read people slag over my demographic, the teenage female, over... what? Gifs on Tumblr, ship wars, and squeeing, the vast majority of which is done for fun and to celebrate the fact that they've found an awesome show based on an awesome series of books. Plus, it's not like these venues are devoid of conversation - they argue about R + L = J, character deaths, the Red Wedding, all that stuff too.

Plus... they support the show and books as much as everyone here does.

Oh yeah, and Roz sucks. Boo.

[Fate's Bitch]

The LA Times has a good article which nicely sums up my feelings on the sex and nudity on the show and why it's coming across as gratuitous and for titillation purposes rather than naturalistic. It's breasts vs tits. The "tits" scenes add nothing to the show and read as more laughable than titillating because of their overuse. Worst of all, a lot of it, because it comes across as HBO flashing a neon light saying "Look at us, we're HBO! We can show titties whenever we want", is committing the grievous sin of breaking viewer immersion. It's not the nudity or sex that's bothersome, it's the execution thereof.

[Ran]

I posted a comment in that one. Gosh, some people are rude and up tight about having their pleasure in gratuitous sex scenes questioned.

I agree with her, re: Littlefinger in the brothel. I think she has the wrong end of the stick with the Pycelle-Ros scene, though.

[Fate's Bitch]

I posted a comment in that one. Gosh, some people are rude and up tight about having their pleasure in gratuitous sex scenes questioned.

I hadn't even looked at the comments beforehand. Ick, some people are awful. Newspaper comment sections really are the armpit of the Internet.

I agree with her, re: Littlefinger in the brothel. I think she has the wrong end of the stick with the Pycelle-Ros scene, though.

Yes, the Pycelle/Ros scene was the most effective "whore" scene in the whole season. I don't agree with its placement - it felt out of place in the finale. However, the staging worked to present the encounter as seedy and demeaning and it convincingly got its point across, where the Littlefinger scene failed.

[LadyFriend]

I am a female who was introduced to the series by the HBO show and the "sextoposition" didn't bother me at all. After reading the book, I can understand the anxiety over sex being added slightly above and beyond the content of the book (aka, LittleFinger's girl on girl action scene).

However, they absolutely cut out a ton of battle/gore. I think that if they were really so interested in catering to "male" tendencies, they would have at least stayed true to the amount of battle scenes (although, that could be funding).

I have to say...this series is incredibly appealing to the generic female viewer stereotype. DRAMA!!!!!!

I love it, anyway. I'm one lady who is completely hooked and has now read the first book and already book the next 3....so, they are doing something right.

[Raisin Bran]

Girls on Tumblr complain because the hot chicks are flailin' their boobs all over the place, while the only dicks to be found belong to Theon (blercgh), the beaten and bleeding and muddy wineseller, and, of course, good ol' Hodor. Yes, of course the sex is going to be aimed at male audiences largely male fanbase yadda yadda, but it's a bit unfair for the chickfans.

[Cop out]

On this very website:

I will rage so goddamn hard if they toss in pointless relationship fodder for idiot teenage girls to speculate about. There are plenty of other drama television shows for that crap. The last fucking thing we need is "O MY GOD DO YOU THINK ITD BE SO CRASY IF DANY AND JAIME GOT TOGETHER TEE HEE". Who gives a shit what some NYT reviewer thinks? The show's ratings are doing fine.

Maybe they can add more 'splosions to draw in the mouthbreather crowd?

The rage against teenage girl for their imagined, possible influence on a television show is not a little disturbing <_<

[Damocles]

Honestly, most of the unnecessary sex was added to appeal to every demographic except the traditional GRRM male reader.

It's just your typical, formulaic HBO pandering, which D&D were happy to oblige. I don't know where they came from with Ros and Shae...Somehow, they found the creative inspiration to introduce two unique whores into GRRM's world, that weren't in the books.

Most men actually get off more on stupid violence, than stupid sex. Which we got precious little of. Though there does appear to be at least one guy in every thread or forum who will forgive a movie or series ANY failing, if it has even one hot girl on it.

[Cop out]

Honestly, most of the unnecessary sex was added to appeal to every demographic except the traditional GRRM male reader.

I seriously doubt that scenes with Roz and co. appeal less to the traditional GRRM male reader than to the traditional GRRM female reader :smoking:

[Fate's Bitch]

Honestly, most of the unnecessary sex was added to appeal to every demographic except the traditional GRRM male reader.

It's just your typical, formulaic HBO pandering, which D&D were happy to oblige. I don't know where they came from with Ros and Shae...Somehow, they found the creative inspiration to introduce two unique whores into GRRM's world, that weren't in the books.

Shae, not in the books? Is there a Shae-abridged version I don't know about? They changed her character somewhat but she's hardly the only one.

Most men actually get off more on stupid violence, than stupid sex. Which we got precious little of. Though there does appear to be at least one guy in every thread or forum who will forgive a movie or series ANY failing, if it has even one hot girl on it.

Do you really think the traditional female demographic responds to men dominating and having sex with whores? Seriously? You think all the random boob shots and brothel scenes were aimed at female viewers?

[Damocles]

Shae, not in the books? Is there a Shae-abridged version I don't know about? They changed her character somewhat but she's hardly the only one.

Do you really think the traditional female demographic responds to men dominating and having sex with whores? Seriously? You think all the random boob shots and brothel scenes were aimed at female viewers?

1) Just because they share the same name, does not make them the same character. The Shae in the series has sprung solely from the imagination of D&D. Most likely they will combine her role with that of Lady Tanda.

2) Both you and the poster above you completely missed the point. They were more pandering towards the younger male crowd that didn't read the books. However, I think the strength of that demographic is myth. The idea behind it being that you just need to show tits to get male viewers. Otherwise, Red Shoe Diaries, or any one of a hundred failed cable shows with nudity, would have been wildly successful among male viewers. Most of those tuning in were doing so for the action fantasy elements.

One thing I've noticed about women, is that they wildly overestimate the allure that sex and nudity have to men. Unknown to you, most tend to compartmentalize it. I.E, they'll seek smut from smutty mediums, and political/action/fantasy/sci-fi/whatever stuff from action mediums, but almost all attempts to combine the two, fall flat.

EDIT: Unrelated, but Shae was definitely tweaked to make her more appealing to a female audience.

[Cop out]

2) Both you and the poster above you completely missed the point. They were more pandering towards the younger male crowd that didn't read the books. However, I think the strength of that demographic is myth.

No, you clearly said:

Honestly, most of the unnecessary sex was added to appeal to every demographic except the traditional GRRM male reader.

Not surprising if people don't get your point, if you made a different point.

One thing I've noticed about women, is that they wildly overestimate the allure that sex and nudity have to men.

You say yourself that some guys forgive a movie any failings as long as there is a hot girl in it. Perhaps you don't watch movies for such reasons, but a lot of guys think (know?) other guys do. Look at Transformers, was that made by women? And yet they spent time showing Megan Fox's ass that could have been spend on a car chase.

Don't blame women for there not being enough movies to your taste. Most movies are still made by guys.

[Fate's Bitch]

2) Both you and the poster above you completely missed the point. They were more pandering towards the younger male crowd that didn't read the books. However, I think the strength of that demographic is myth. The idea behind it being that you just need to show tits to get male viewers. Otherwise, Red Shoe Diaries, or any one of a hundred failed cable shows with nudity, would have been wildly successful among male viewers. Most of those tuning in were doing so for the action fantasy elements.

I'm sure most were. I don't claim to know why individual watches a show. And whether the strength of the demographic is a myth or not, it doesn't change the fact that certain aspects of the show are clearly meant to pander to them. I don't think you need to show tits to get male viewers but when there is an abundance of tits in any TV show or movie, it's plainly there to appeal to straight male viewers. And yes, I would deduce that the traditional male GRRM fanbase counts overwhelmingly as straight male viewers.

One thing I've noticed about women, is that they wildly overestimate the allure that sex and nudity have to men. Unknown to you, most tend to compartmentalize it. I.E, they'll seek smut from smutty mediums, and political/action/fantasy/sci-fi/whatever stuff from action mediums, but almost all attempts to combine the two, fall flat.

Trust me, the vast majority of the people making these shows and adding gratutious tit scenes aren't women. I don't care to generalise about what men like and think, unlike you have literally just done about women. But when male producers and male directors make films and TV shows where, consciously or unconsciously, women are sexualised a lot more than men, it's self-evident where the appeal lies. It's intellectual dishonesty to claim that the tits scenes are there to pander to any other demographic than the young straight male one. It doesn't matter whether it's the primary reason for the demographic viewing it or not, it's about the intent behind those scenes.

Now, whether the show miscalculated in their reliance on sexposition, there's where this thread comes in. A lot of viewers, both male and female think it's too over-the-top at times and that scenes like the Littlefinger teaching the whores are the biggest missteps of the show.

[Domenceus]

The LA Times has a good article which nicely sums up my feelings on the sex and nudity on the show and why it's coming across as gratuitous and for titillation purposes rather than naturalistic. It's breasts vs tits.

That was an awesome article. The "breasts" scene referenced is an excellent example of an empowered woman...who happens to have no clothes on.

re: the rest of this thread, I am disappoint. I was expecting complaints about slash shippers and furries, which usually are what "disturbing elements" and "fandom" tend to be applied to. How dull. :(

[Lady Blackfish]

I like the sex in the novels and I don't like it in the show, and I could be mistaken because I have only my own self report to go off of here, but I honestly don't think I'm some Victorian prude for finding the sex on the show disappointing. For me, the biggest vibe I get is that B&W's approach is very typical, it's well within the confines of male heterosexist paradigms. The women are naked more than the men, the woman-on-woman is more graphic and opposite-sex-gaze dominated than the man-on-man, the one character HBO created has only nudity to offer as her unique contribution, and most of the sex is by beautiful hot young people. It's just very, well, boring and Hollywood and typical. Yeah, I said it.

[Eddard Stark]

I think one of the earlier posters had an excellent post about one of the 'gratuitous' sex scenes, and what it says about those involved.

I'd also point out that the producers of a TV show are far more limited than the author of a book. George can take you into the mind of his characters - you can see what Tyrion thinks of Littlefinger or Pycelle. No such luck on TV. The Littlefinger sexposition actually did say things about LF you wouldn't have learned elsewhere. I suspect Ros' scene with Pycelle may also set up a later scene from the books.

[Salome the Persian Witch]

:agree:

If anyone calls 2 men (1 of whom looks like a 12 year old) sniping at each other like old women at all equal to the fornication of Ros and unnamed whore, they're deluding themselves. :angry2: