Cersei's idiocy

[Alternate34]

All of her decisions from the beginning have been aimed at the very short term. Killing Robert was to get Joffrey the crown immediately. Killing Ned was to get rid of him quickly. The wildfire was a tactical decision to cause as much desstruction as possible. These actions are no different than her aFFC machinations, a series of moves designed for the short term with no consideration or long term consequences.

They also demonstrate her tunnel vision. She never considers the collateral consequences aof her actions. Wildfire is a perfect example. It can easily go out of control and cause devastation to both sides. Killing Robert and Ned fans the flames of war in an instant. She doesn't care. Isolating the Tyrells will eventually lead to a failed struggle for power, as they will counter her moves in the end. She only sees the short term victory of ousting them in meaningless ways.

She has not changed. The only thing that has changed is that we now see why she only considers the short term and immediate consequences of her actions.

[hackhamster]

I think she is a psycho, that did stupid, psychopathic things, and eventually it caught up with her. She didn't really start doing stupid things, she was always doing, and has always done, stupid things.

It started early, with her torturing Tyrion in his crib, to pushing Mellara (or whatever her name was) into the well so no one would know her secret.

[MindLikeWarp]

It started early, with her torturing Tyrion in his crib, to pushing Mellara (or whatever her name was) into the well so no one would know her secret.

Exactly, she was born a psycho. Torturing a baby, and killing someone. She was always an idiotic psycho and eventually someone was going to find out. She was such a psycho, I'm surprised she lasted this long.

[Todd Sand bastard of AZ]

the woman who came up with wild fire

I thought it was Tyrion who ordered the wildfire and devised the strategy for its use? I know Tywin was told it was Cersei's idea, but that struck me as another one of her lies. I specifically recall Tyrion making that one happen in ACoK.

[Greyjoy Rebellion]

I really wonder what Martin has in store for us with her in TWoW, because he did such a wonderful job of transforming Jaime into a sympathetic character. You'd think that he might have some redemption for her in mind, given his track record.

[MindLikeWarp]

I really wonder what Martin has in store for us with her in TWoW, because he did such a wonderful job of transforming Jaime into a sympathetic character. You'd think that he might have some redemption for her in mind, given his track record.

She is not redeemable. She is a true psycho. Jaime didn't torture a baby or kill his friend when he was young.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I thought it was Tyrion who ordered the wildfire and devised the strategy for its use? I know Tywin was told it was Cersei's idea, but that struck me as another one of her lies. I specifically recall Tyrion making that one happen in ACoK.

No, reread the chapters again. Tyrion finds out that Ceresi has ordered wildfire, and it makes him uncomfortable, but he is the one who comes up with a way to make sure the people using the wildfire use it safely.

[Marcus of the South]

To be clear:

And what has my good sister done about this?”

“She is taking steps to restore the king’s peace,” Vylarr assured him. “Lord

Slynt has tripled the size of the City Watch, and the queen has put a thousand

craftsmen to work on our defenses. The stonemasons are strengthening the walls,

carpenters are building scorpions and catapults by the hundred, fletchers are

making arrows, the smiths are forging blades, and the Alchemists’ Guild has

pledged ten thousand jars of wildfire.”

Tyrion shifted uncomfortably in his saddle. He was pleased that Cersei had not

been idle, but wildfire was treacherous stuff, and ten thousand jars were

enough to turn all of King’s Landing into cinders. “Where has my sister found

the coin to pay for all of this?” It was no secret that King Robert had left

the crown vastly in debt, and alchemists were seldom mistaken for

altruists.

[hackhamster]

I really wonder what Martin has in store for us with her in TWoW, because he did such a wonderful job of transforming Jaime into a sympathetic character. You'd think that he might have some redemption for her in mind, given his track record.

He can't take every evil character and make them good, and visa versa, some have to stay where they are. Otherwise, everything becomes much more predictable.

[Greyjoy Rebellion]

He can't take every evil character and make them good, and visa versa, some have to stay where they are. Otherwise, everything becomes much more predictable.

I think the series has generally proven impossible to predict more than anything, so I suppose I would ask - what's the least predictable outcome for Cersei, in your opinion?

[hackhamster]

I think the series has generally proven impossible to predict more than anything, so I suppose I would ask - what's the least predictable outcome for Cersei, in your opinion?

The least likely ending for Cersei? Living to the end of the last book.

[mcb]

All of her decisions from the beginning have been aimed at the very short term. Killing Robert was to get Joffrey the crown immediately. Killing Ned was to get rid of him quickly.

No. Killing Ned was Joffrey's own brilliant idea. Cersei was as surprised as everyone else.

[Sega AM2]

No. Killing Ned was Joffrey's own brilliant idea. Cersei was as surprised as everyone else.

It is also implied that Littlefinger and Pycelle subtly pushed Joffrey into making that decision.

[Lady Tanalyth]

The wildfire was definitely Cersei's idea and I'm pretty sure that Tyrion thinks at one point later that they're fortunate that they had it. He also thinks that it's smart that she had the foresight to get Tommen out of KL just in case things didn't go there way.

Cersei was not as dumb as a post in the first three books. Then there's the fact that she managed to survive that long at KL when it's such a corrupt and treacherous place. She was able to get away with having an affair with her twin for like fifteen years or something. How many truly stupid people could pull that off?

I feel like there are so many things that a person could point to prove that she wasn't always that stupid and that maybe just maybe there was a little bit of overkill in terms of her stupidity in AFfC. Did she do one intelligent thing in the entire book? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. At some point it starts to feel a little unbelievable. Her first council meeting was such a joke it was beyond frustrating. Like, wait, this is the same woman who managed to come out on top over Robert, Tyrion, and Ned? Whether or not she had the help of others is beside the point IMO. She still knew how to work stuff to her advantage in the first three books but in AFfC whatever cunning she originally had just basically vanished overnight.

[mcb]

Like, wait, this is the same woman who managed to come out on top over Robert, Tyrion, and Ned? Whether or not she had the help of others is beside the point IMO.

Littlefinger orchestrated Ned's downfall, framed Tyrion for murdering Joffrey, but you think it's beside the point and both attest to Cersei's brain power? How exactly do stratagems conceived and executed by LF prove that Cersei is smart?

[Lady Tanalyth]

A different woman might have done exactly as Ned suggested. She might have fled and suspicion would have been cast in her direction. She was smart enough to see that she didn't have to play it Ned's way. She was also smart enough to see that it was a bad idea to have him executed. It wasn't her idea and she wasn't so stupid that she didn't know there would be consequences. I feel like AFfC Cersei would likely have suggested Ned's execution herself.

[Logen Ninefingers]

By AFFC Cersei thinks that she has won, she is the Queen Regent, has the power she's been clawing her way towards her whole life and her enemies are either dead or effectively neutered. Even the restraining influence of her father has been removed so she is able to act in any manner she sees fit. This is why she over reacts so dramatically to every perceived threat, because in her mind those threats shouldn't exist because she's already won. To her it's a personal insult every time an obstacle is placed in her path and that's why she reacts so personally. She has a very simplistic view of power and believes that once you're in charge nobody should be able to gainsay you, threaten you or otherwise offend you, of course this simply isn't realistic. She also believes that power resides in the Crown itself which is why she is quite comfortable alienating the Tyrells and all their swords despite how clear to us it is that she needs them.

[metr0man]

She basically does not have the ability to look more than one step ahead and is just really self-involved, making decisions entirely based on personal satisfaction. Getting what she wanted from the Septon made her feel good and satisfied "yeah Tywin you'd be proud of me" that she couldn't look more than a step ahead and realize how bad it was to arm the faith, etc.

Her plot against Margeary is actually fairly well-done... except for that pesky inability to look more than a step ahead.

[metr0man]

Cersei beat Ned because Ned was stupid (sorry, "honorable"). Ned passed on like 3 chances to put her away (so to speak) for good. And then Littlefinger delivered Ned.

[Alternate34]

A different woman might have done exactly as Ned suggested. She might have fled and suspicion would have been cast in her direction. She was smart enough to see that she didn't have to play it Ned's way. She was also smart enough to see that it was a bad idea to have him executed. It wasn't her idea and she wasn't so stupid that she didn't know there would be consequences. I feel like AFfC Cersei would likely have suggested Ned's execution herself.

It's not like her actions in AFfC are monumentally stupid. They lack any consideration of their consquences outside of her immediate short term benefit.

She loads the counsel with flatterers. She gains an immediate benefit from this in the form of absolute control of the government. She allows the Faith to militarize. She gets the immediate benefit of Tommen's blessing and a forgiveness of debt. She gets Margaery arrested by the Faith. She gets the immediate benefit of ousting a political rival and regains control of her son again.

These aren't mind numbingly stupid schemes. They take some level of plotting to work. They just ignore any long term consequences that arise from them. This is true of all her other schemes. When she had Robert and Ned killed, she didn't have any real plan to deal with Stannis, Renly, and Robb. I think this is the low cunning talked about. She sees something in her way, she can concoct a scheme that is likely to work and leave her hands reasonably clean. However, ignoring the long term consequences can only go so far, and eventually, surrounding herself with poor allies and making powerful enemies caught up with her.