I am amazed at the amount of female fans on this series.

[GreyJackal]

With the level of some things that goes down in this series I am surprised that this series has such a strong fanbase female wise. It actually makes me happy as when I was reading the series(before discovering this board) it kind of made me sad because I felt that the opposite gender would just find it crass and disgusting. And my opinion was only cemented when I read an article from a woman for watched the first episode of GoT.

I then come here and see that there are lots of female fans who enjoy the series and scoff at that same woman for not knowing what she is talking about.

Not a diss or anything, just vocalizing my impressedness on you guys. Dunno if this is the right board. Sorry.

[Datepalm]

Shocking indeed.

After all, it is widely appreciated, presumably mostly in the finer class of parlours and drawing rooms, that Woman, that delicate angelic being which the inclination God and Nature have made of her, prefers all things dainty and domestic, evocative of the finer, unbrutal sentiments from which she must be sheltered by Man. With lace curtains, and some frills, presumably.

[The Rattleshirt]

There are some strong female characters in the series, often being stronger/more cunning than many of the male characters, examples being Cersei, Arya, even Olenna Tyrell. Thats a definite possible reason for some people, along with the simple fact that everyone can appreciate the brilliant story :P

[Faranya]

Shocking indeed.

After all, it is widely appreciated, presumably mostly in the finer class of parlours and drawing rooms, that Woman, that delicate angelic being which the inclination God and Nature have made of her, prefers all things dainty and domestic, evocative of the finer, unbrutal sentiments from which she must be sheltered by Man. With lace curtains, and some frills, presumably.

Well, to be fair, I've known enough women who are absolutely terrified of the prospect of rape to make me somewhat more skeptical that a series containing so many references to rape would be as popular.

Is it a stereotype on my part? Yes, yes it is.

[Jack Sparrow]

Hear me out first.

I stopped reading after this.

[GreyJackal]

Well, to be fair, I've known enough women who are absolutely terrified of the prospect of rape to make me somewhat more skeptical that a series containing so many references to rape would be as popular.

Is it a stereotype on my part? Yes, yes it is.

Glad to know that I am not crazy then. Pretty much all the females I know would regard this series as "fantasy porn". Lol.

Still like I said, no disrespect to the female readers.

[hackhamster]

I could point out that it succeeds with women despite a drastic lack of vampires, but I won't. :smoking:

[GreyJackal]

Shocking indeed.

After all, it is widely appreciated, presumably mostly in the finer class of parlours and drawing rooms, that Woman, that delicate angelic being which the inclination God and Nature have made of her, prefers all things dainty and domestic, evocative of the finer, unbrutal sentiments from which she must be sheltered by Man. With lace curtains, and some frills, presumably.

I knew this was coming. But it still hurts.

:crying:

But like I said in another topic I am the only fantasy reader I know in real life. So the fact that there are so many fans of this series at all that I have never met, I find impressive. Seeing that some are female just blew my mind.

[Bumble Bee]

The level of incest, kidnapping and rape of woman in these books does occasionally have me squirming. But I knew that before getting into the series so I accept it as part of the story. To besides there is no end to the real life examples of violence against women as a tool of war.

[dreamcatcher]

It's not really gender-specific, is it... It's not action-packed, and it still has romance and stuff we girls like. :blushing:

[Faranya]

It's not really gender-specific, is it... It's not action-packed, and it still has romance and stuff we girls like. :blushing:

You say that like the guys don't...

They just aren't ridiculously sappy about it. You just have people who genuinely care for each other.

[Errant Bard]

In truth, SF and Fantasy are traditional bastions of male geekdom. But I would be a bit hesitant to attribute that to any innate female squeamishness, and would rather favour the prejudice about the ideology carried by the genre.

There's only so much misogyny you can stomach before giving up. Fantasy in particular is generally built to appeal to the young white male, from the choice of heroes to the roles attributed to characters. It is detrimental to gaining a female readership, and the prejudice generated means that a female is most likely to decide right away that any rape/sex scene plays into it, and as such is indicative that the series is to be dropped.

Same reason your average young male will not pick up an urban fantasy or a romance novel. Heck we had so many threads about prejudiced guys not picking anything written by a female that it's sickening. We did not get that far from George Sand's times.

We are seeing an upset in the tropes used for Fantasy, these days, I think, though. I see a lot more of female heroines, and I don't mean heroine playing at being men.

it still has romance and stuff we girls like. :blushing:

"We girls"... Men are from mars, women are from venus, heh? I don't think you really see eye to eye with Dateplam, here.

[wandalay]

Glad to know that I am not crazy then. Pretty much all the females I know would regard this series as "fantasy porn". Lol.

Still like I said, no disrespect to the female readers.

"Fantasy Porn"?

Seriously, in my (female) opinion, there are not overly much sex scenes in the books. There are quiet a few, ok, but they all fit in with the story. And rape is mentioned a lot, but not described, that would be something different. In a medieval war, there is a lot of rape and plunder involved, we can't deny that.

And I would not even describe the sex scenes in the book as "Porn". I mean, they are not overly detailed, are they? Maybe you shouls read (read, not watch) some porn to understand what you're talking about. Books like Henry Millers "Opus Pistorum", they really contain al lot of explicit porn scenes, but ASoIaF has just sex scenes.

Well, just my opinion.

[GreyJackal]

Thank you Errant, you have put it way nicer than I could have.

I however, am not prejudiced. A female author got me INTO the fantasy genre.

When I was younger I got into these books called Animorphs and Everworld which is by.....wait for it......a woman. Those books are what got me into the fantasy genre period and I have been hooked since.

If I came off as one of those people I apologise, but I don't have any ill intentions.

[The Rattleshirt]

It's not really gender-specific, is it... It's not action-packed, and it still has romance and stuff we girls like. :blushing:

As others here have also mentioned, us men can get behind the romance too, i'll gladly admit i turned incredibly sappy over Jon and Ygritte, although i'm a sucker for tragic love :(

[Flit]

Glad to know that I am not crazy then. Pretty much all the females I know would regard this series as "fantasy porn". Lol.

Still like I said, no disrespect to the female readers.

This is actually what my female friends and I discuss about the book, the thing that makes it interesting. We generally end up in discussions about whether a man can really get to the heart of a female character, and how the amount of sex/incest/rape/abuse and general nastiness towards women in the novel impacts on the story. Is it just realism or is there something else going on there.

But I've never had one of my friends stop reading because of that. I've had one who stopped because she was never a fantasy reader in the first place and was distracted by life (I'll tempt her back in, I know I will when I get my season 1 box set) but I've managed to get more women to start reading it than men. I find it's a harder sell to men, but maybe because I sell it with a female perspective. I don't understand how that is as I generally explain it as, "horribly complicated and everyone dies and it's brilliant and fantastic and you're an idiot if you're not reading it."

[Datepalm]

In truth, SF and Fantasy are traditional bastions of male geekdom. But I would be a bit hesitant to attribute that to any innate female squeamishness, and would rather favour the prejudice about the ideology carried by the genre.

...

"We girls"... Men are from mars, women are from venus, heh? I don't think you really see eye to eye with Dateplam, here.

I did consider pointing out that i'm shocked so many men read a series with so much romance, mothering, descriptions of landscapes, chats about menstruation and lots of references to castration, but I when I pick a mode of sarcasm, by god I stick with it!

I'm not sure about the inpalatability of genre to women/girls. Sure, growing up I think there was less girl-friendly SFF about than there is now (that is, with female protagonists and charaters that aren't there to be raped/rescued,) but it wasn't exactly all that non existent either, (Anne McCaffery might be mocked for increasingly formulaic crap Pern books today, but I loved some of her earlier stuff growing up,) and I think you might be underestimating the capacity of people who want to read Sci Fi, because they love reading about spaceships, damn it, to make even books that were probably distinctly not written with women in mind (Heinlein...) palatable anyway. In short, there have always been women reading (and writing genre), its not some new phenomenon of the past five years entirely brought about by some bizzare cabal of Stephenie Meyer and Suzzane Collins.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

I think it helps that about half the POVs are very effectively written women/girl characters. These characters not only tell interesting stories, but are also very believable and sympathetic to the reader. Criticize Martin however you will, but he has a talent for writing realistic female characters that no other male fantasy author in my experience even approaches.

[Sidonie]

I think it's because women have the freedom to truly be themselves nowadays. I think that maybe 50 years ago a women wouldn't to do anything that could make her less attractive, because her only real option in life would be to attract a man and get married; that's how she'd survive in life. Maybe reading Sci Fi or Fantasy would actually cause some men to find that woman a "weirdo." Now, women have to get out there, study, work, compete, and we can freely admit what we truly enjoy and don't. Maybe we are less sheltered than in the past, and every modern women contends with the reality of the threat of rape and abuse, even today, and we're disgusted by it, but we accept it's a reality, just like war.

As far as the grittiness, what the men do to the women in the books is about as equal to what the men do to each other, really, in terms of horror.

[Faranya]

Heck we had so many threads about prejudiced guys not picking anything written by a female that it's sickening. We did not get that far from George Sand's times.

See, I have heard about this, and don't doubt it to be true, but I never understood it.

I'm an (extremely) amateur writer of fantasy, and I have seen lots of people saying that a novel with a female lead is only going to sell to female readers, while a novel with a male lead can sell to both. Again, I don't doubt that is true, but I have a hard time believing that anyone makes the conscious decision to not read or enjoy something because it is written by or from the perspective of a woman.

I started reading fantasy with C.J. Cherryh's Fortress series, knowing that she was a woman. I liked the story though, so I don't know why that should have mattered...but then again, she had male protagonists.