[BOOK SPOILERS] What would you like for the TV show to change?

[Kadence]

Are there any things - whether it be plot details, character potrayals etc. - that you would actually prefer that the TV show changed from the source material?

The one that stands out to me is the reveal of who sent the assasin after Bran.

(Storm of Swords spoiler)

Joffrey sending the assassin was woefully anti-climactic, and not set up at all, with an unsatisfactory motive. They could probably find a better candidate and a more satisfying motive.

That is one plot detail where I think the TV show could improve upon from the books. It wouldn't be hard to change it, nor should changing this detail affect anything in the future. It's pretty much a stand-alone detail.

What events or characterizations would you like for the show to modify?

[Hyper]

I would like a more interesting/determined journey for Arya in ACOK and ASOS. (good stuff, but basically the same situations repeated over and over)

[Easy]

Let Cat stay dead.

[Fez]

Aging up the kids; which, thankfully, they have already done.

I'd also like for Arya and Brienne's travels to be cut significantly.

[mr. peasant]

Let Cat stay dead.

Huge change... I like it. Going along with that:

1. Thoros is unable to resurrect people. Reason: The show established itself as low fantasy with little to no magic use aside from the wights which can be attributed to it simply because it was done by 'White Walkers' and not humans.

2. By extension, Beric Dondarrion doesn't keep getting himself killed, merely defeated. If need be, have Sandor spare him during his trial by combat.

3. Have Daenerys arrive in Westeros. Reason: The general, non-book-reading audience seem to want/expect this and having it not happen after five seasons might leave them a bit bored with that storyline.

4. Have the story be character-driven rather than plot-driven. Reason: TV shows are generally structured as such.

[Pecan]

They need to spend more time developing characters. Yes, lots of stuff happens that you have to portray one way or another, but get creative with how you do it.

I also think they need to start developing the backstory more - maybe do a Godfather Part II type thing.

More episodes. 10 just won't cut it.

[Millardkillmoore]

First, I agree that it was a good move to age the kids up.

There's a part in ASOS where Arya is carted around by the BwB from one place to another to find Beric. Nothing of particular import really happens in these travels. Just have them take her straight to Beric.

The Qartheen have a tendency to have women walk around with one exposed breast. They also cry all the time. It might be best to remove those two cultrual traits of Qarth.

The whole plot that Chett came up with in the prologue of ASOS could also be cut.

[jellydonut]

They're probably going to cut harshly through all the travels anyway. Both Brienne, Arya and maybe even Daenerys. How else would they fit the next two books in HBO seasons?

[Iotun]

Well they've already made changes I liked. One that I particularly enjoyed, was that they removed the completely, gigantically, idiotic way in which Tyrion first introduces himself to Jon (him sitting at, if I recall correctly, the edge of the roof of the winterfell great hall, and then doing an acrobatic backflip and landing on his feet in front of Jon. I think even Martin probably regretted introducing 'acrobatic Tyrion' as he never made use of that aspect of his character again. Instead we get an introduction much more fitting to the character, with Tyrion walking half-drunk out the room).

Some things I can think of now, possibly will come up with others later:

- If I recall correctly, in the show Cat doesn't tell Tyrion that it was Petyr who told her the dagger was his. I'd be much better if Tyrion remains ignorant of Petyr's betrayal, as it removes the slightly unrealistic element of the fact that Tyrion could have him hanged any time he wanted as a traitor with a whisper to his father. Tyrion always tells us that a Lannister always pays his debt, and though we know he can be viscious to his opponents, he just lets Littlefinger be. Yeah, I know there's ways to rationalize it, but still...

- Davos never gets strunted on an island. He just swims under the chain and is picked up by one of the Lyseni boats there and then. I'm fairly confident they'll do this.

- I suspect they'll do this to save time, its not something I particularly want - I imagine they'll scrap the subplot with Storm's End not yielding to Stannis even after Renly's death, and combine the scene where Melisandre births the shadow baby with the scene where Renly is killed. Storm's End then opens its gate automatically.

- Another thing I suspect they'll do for budget and time reasons, though I don't particularly 'want' them to - merge Bywater's character and function with Bronn.

- Also, only 3 or 4 in Halfhand's ranging squad rather than 5.

[Davos' Middle Finger]

- Move the White Walkers attack on the Fist from the ASOS prologue to the finale of Season 2. It would make for a pretty epic cliffhanger, and I've heard a lot of people suggest this too.

[MadTerriers]

io9 had an interesting article a while back where they listed characters that could be cut from Season Two with only minimal fuss:

1. Amory Lorch - I agree with this one. Merge him with Gregor and it helps to reduce some of the repetition for Arya's journey.
2. Xaro Xhoan Daxos - Merge him with Pyat Pree & Quaithe. Sure, why not? I'm all in favor of slashing Qarth down to just the House of the Undying, if only Dany had something else to do during the season. Heck, why not merge Qarth and Astapor...end Dany's season with the cries of "Freedom!" That would help fix the problem where Dany in ACOK has little to do, and Dany in ASOS has a packed schedule.
3. Lady Donella, Wyman Manderly, Mors Umber, Hother Umber - Some version of their tale would be needed to add flavor to Ramsay...but they can probably introduce the story elements without adding in multiple blink-and-you'll-miss-em characters.
4. The Blackfish - His head's already on the chopping block. Too many Tullys, too little time.
5. Tanda, Falyse & Lollys Stokeworth - I have a feeling that they'll remain speechless and virtually nameless, just like Jeyne Poole.
6. Big Walder & Little Walder - They weren't mentioned during Season One. They don't need to waste any precious time on them in Season Two.
7. Thoren Smallwood - They've already eliminated a number of speaking roles from the Night's Watch. If they can do without Donal Noye, they can get rid of Thoren.
8. Vargo Hoat - I'd have a hard time seeing Vargo gone, so I think this sort of change would be unlikely
9. Aeron Greyjoy - Save him for Season Four
10. Craster - With the limited amount of characterization time allowed, Craster might seem too similar to Walder Frey (one more creepy old dude who likes young wives)...but Gilly is important, and Craster's Keep gives Jon a bit of a break from just wandering around in the icy woods for most/all of the season.

Other changes I'd like to see? Give more things for Dany and Jon to do in Season Two. The show can't let itself get bogged down....I'd add in a chunk of ASOS to both of their storylines in Season Two. As said above, I think you could move all of Dany's Astapor activities into Qarth and Season Two. Then Season Three could focus on her in Yunkai and Meereen (and maybe even consolidate those two into just Meereen). Jon should end with his season meeting Mance (who could very well be in the wildling party that captures him and Qhorin), and, as has been proposed on this board several times, move the battle at the Fist as the season two finale.

[Kadence]

I agree with cutting short on the various travelogues.

The Qartheen have a tendency to have women walk around with one exposed breast. They also cry all the time. It might be best to remove those two cultrual traits of Qarth.

Please, this is probably the one reason HBO greenlighted the series :laugh: Do you really see HBO opting for less nudity rather than more? :)

- If I recall correctly, in the show Cat doesn't tell Tyrion that it was Petyr who told her the dagger was his. I'd be much better if Tyrion remains ignorant of Petyr's betrayal, as it removes the slightly unrealistic element of the fact that Tyrion could have him hanged any time he wanted as a traitor with a whisper to his father. Tyrion always tells us that a Lannister always pays his debt, and though we know he can be viscious to his opponents, he just lets Littlefinger be. Yeah, I know there's ways to rationalize it, but still...

Yes this is a good point. Tyrion not confronting Littlefinger about that and instead giving him Harrenhal seems like a pretty weird move by Tyrion. Littlefinger's plot armor caused Tyrion to let him go unpunished.

Other changes I'd like to see? Give more things for Dany and Jon to do in Season Two. The show can't let itself get bogged down....I'd add in a chunk of ASOS to both of their storylines in Season Two. As said above, I think you could move all of Dany's Astapor activities into Qarth and Season Two. Then Season Three could focus on her in Yunkai and Meereen (and maybe even consolidate those two into just Meereen). Jon should end with his season meeting Mance (who could very well be in the wildling party that captures him and Qhorin), and, as has been proposed on this board several times, move the battle at the Fist as the season two finale.

Agreed that much from Storm can be moved over from season two. Even more than those two characters, I suspect Jaime's arc from Storm will largely happen in season 2. I suspect he will

lose his hand

next season, not season 3.

[Vikingkingq]

I agree that shortening the travel sequences by removing the reversals is probably the way to go - that kind of repeated delayed gratification works better on the page than on the screen.

I think cutting the Blackfish has an unexpected advantage - it makes Edmure Tully less of a...looking for a nice word for "usually unsuccessful guy." As interesting a deconstruction his character was, I think the viewing audience is going to need reasons to like this character off the bat so they care more about him when things go wrong.

One thing I'd like them to Hollywood up: Lord Commander Mormont's death. Still should happen but I'd love for him to actually get to hack through some wights before he gets stabbed in the back, let him show off some of the (informed) badassery we haven't actually seen yet.

[howland_reed]

I feel like Blackfish will be more important in ADWD and on (haven't read it yet). I know they cut him out of S1, but he could easily be introduced with the other Tullys in S2.

Biggest change I want to see will be from AFFC. Cut out most of Brienne's journey. Hell, cut out Podrick for all I care. Most important of all though, cut out Cersei's childhood prophecies. I felt like I was reading some other fantasy book than ASOIAF when I first read about Cersei's doom.

On a similar note, I agree that Cat should stay dead, but as with Blackfish, it depends on what Lady Stoneheart's role will be in future books. As of now though, she's completely pointless except as a vehicle for revenge, and honestly, her coming back as UnCat kind of dampened the impact of the Red Wedding.

[Vikingkingq]

One thing I'd like them to Hollywood up: Lord Commander Mormont's death. Still should happen but I'd love for him to actually get to hack through some wights before he gets stabbed in the back, let him show off some of the (informed) badassery we haven't actually seen yet.

Whoops. Forgot my timing here. Mormont's death came after the battle on the Fist. Nevermind.

[howland_reed]

To add something more major:

I hope Bronn doesn't betray Tyrion. Or at the very least, redeems himself by helping Tyrion escape King's Landing at the end of SOS. I don't know, to me, the end of their friendship was just too abrupt in the books and I didn't like the notion that Bronn really in fact was only in it for the money and titles.

[Delta1212]

To add something more major:

I hope Bronn doesn't betray Tyrion. Or at the very least, redeems himself by helping Tyrion escape King's Landing at the end of SOS. I don't know, to me, the end of their friendship was just too abrupt in the books and I didn't like the notion that Bronn really in fact was only in it for the money and titles.

Seriously? I didn't read that the same way you did at all. Bronn would have helped Tyrion if he could have, but he probably would have died, and that's not Bronn. If they ever run into each other again, I'm sure Bronn will be more than happy to help Tyrion in a way that isn't extremely likely to end in his death, and tweaking Cersei's nose by naming his child Tyrion just confirms this for me.

I quite like that element of the storyline, to be honest.

[mr. peasant]

In the realm of what I hope and expect the show to do in season 2:

1. Loras suspects Stannis' involvement in Renly's death and swears vengeance.

2. Instead of Tywin's forces arriving to win the Battle of the Blackwater, it's only Loras', with him dressed in Renly's armour - as much a symbolic gesture as it is a clever ruse to scare Stannis' forces.

[Kadence]

2. Instead of Tywin's forces arriving to win the Battle of the Blackwater, it's only Loras', with him dressed in Renly's armour - as much a symbolic gesture as it is a clever ruse to scare Stannis' forces.

Actually now that you bring it up, I'm confident this is exactly what they'll do. Loras will be Renly's ghost. Unlike in the books they are the same size.

And I think it actually is an improvement, and will be more emotionally gratifying for the viewer.

[rayvio]

for the most part I'd like it to pretty much follow the books, much as it has been doing (ie: only some minor differences) but...

save the Lady Stoneheart reveal until Brienne meets her, don't let the viewing audience know it's coming (unless they read the books or spoilers of course). problem with that though is that casting will make it an obvious spoiler anyway, same as with Whitebeard