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Jon Targaryen

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Davos 1 - Spoilers for ADWD

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IMHO GRRRM mention of “fair amount†means that Davos would have more chapters then most of regular POVs. Since most of them would likely have from 2 to 4 chapters Davos probably would have more.

Really? I take that to mean slightly less than normal espically since Davos has never been a chapter heavy POV, while i'd expect him to say there were alot or a large amount if he were seen more than traditional POVs.

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I glad that in Davos II that we finally get to see White Harbour. For the brief description that we have it sounds a lot less feral than what I expected, the closest parallel that we can draw to it from the books so far being Oldtown. I wonder if this is intentional? I think there will be a higher number of Davos chapters than originally expected and that Oldtown will be the centre of a number of political storylines in ADWD - perhaps with Theon/Davos/Roose all vying for control of the port?

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Well, GRRM has prettty much let us know that aDwD concentrates on events in the northern part of Westeros and on the Eastern Continent. It will parallel AFFC which focused on events in K.L., the Riverlands and the rest of the southern part of Westeros.

We're supposed to get the POVs all back together in The Winds of Winter and that's when I think we'll see some more of Oldtown.

But White Harbor could certainly be one of the settings for some drama in DwD.

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Well, GRRM has prettty much let us know that aDwD concentrates on events in the northern part of Westeros and on the Eastern Continent. It will parallel AFFC which focused on events in K.L., the Riverlands and the rest of the southern part of Westeros.

We're supposed to get the POVs all back together in The Winds of Winter and that's when I think we'll see some more of Oldtown.

But White Harbor could certainly be one of the settings for some drama in DwD.

It'll be cool to see how GRRM will be able to fit all the POV's in TWOW without splitting it. Too many pov's. I'll be very glad if he kills a few off in DwD. Actually, I'll only be kinda glad. But yeah, White Harbor should be an interesting place. Maybe the reason why Davos has a POV in this one is to reveal to us where Rickon and Osha are. Then he'll discover something else and then he'll die. :dunce:

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The relevant information from AFfC:

Cersei says: "The man’s head and hands have been mounted above the walls of White Harbor. Lord Wyman avows this, and the Freys confirm. They have seen the head there, with an onion in its mouth. And the hands, one marked by his shortened fingers."

And there is the "We have that from the Freys" as well. Red flag! Alarm bells! These are FREYS! I'd never assume any Frey was telling the truth! That something is averred by the Freys is no reason whatsoever to believe it is true!

aspasia

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And there is the "We have that from the Freys" as well. Red flag! Alarm bells! These are FREYS! I'd never assume any Frey was telling the truth! That something is averred by the Freys is no reason whatsoever to believe it is true!

aspasia

These would be particularly foolish Freys if they hoped to join Stannis after participating in the Red Wedding. And if they did not hope to join Stannis, why would they lie to protect his Hand?

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These would be particularly foolish Freys if they hoped to join Stannis after participating in the Red Wedding. And if they did not hope to join Stannis, why would they lie to protect his Hand?

Freys are stupid?

They might not be hoping to join Stannis. I'd doubt it. Unless there's a splinter group of Freys who are smart enough to realize they are ABOUT to be offered up as sacrificial lambs to be executed for the Red Wedding, with the crown's enthusiastic support?

My point was only that Freys lie, and even when they are telling the truth, they are likely to be wrong. Relying on the word of a Frey to deliver reliable truth is a dicey proposal.

aspasia

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If you mean that if was foolish of Sersei to rely on Frey’s words I agree. But it was foolish of her to demand Davos execution on the first place he definitely was worse more alive then dead. But she thought that Stannis is already finished and we know that he is definitely not.

And if they could be deceived by Manderly – surely it was very easy to deice them since most probably no one of them would recognize Davos. Besides some details like onion in the mouse and shortened hand may be just prove of deception. There was no need for mouse and hand unless Manderly wanted to prove that he executed the right man. But why Manderly felt that he needs such a proof?

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I don't remember if it was mentioned, but if Manderly did spare Davos, I think that he cut off his hand (or both of them) to prove it to the freys. The head could be from someone else, but not the hand, methinks

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All I'm going to say is "wow".

Look, Davos is low born scum and none of these people know what he looks like, not even the Florents look Davos in the face. The Freys recognized him by the onion and the shortened fingers on one hand, mounted over a gate and probably 10-15 feet off the ground. I wouldn't bet against Davos ending up in Manderly's dungeon but I would say that that head and those hands {not that hard to cut off the fingers after you've already removed the hand} are of a different prisoner.

And why? Manderly needed to prove himself to King's Landing because they held is son captive. But keep in mind that they also killed his king, Lord Stark, Lady Stark and his other son so he's probably only as loyal as far as his son was held captive. And Stannis is a hell of a lot closer to White Harbor than King's Landing is.

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I don't remember if it was mentioned, but if Manderly did spare Davos, I think that he cut off his hand (or both of them) to prove it to the freys. The head could be from someone else, but not the hand, methinks

Why not? You could easily chop off somebody's fingers after you've killed them. (Or before, I suppose.)

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That depends on who is supposed to be fooled, how close they look, and when. The difference between freshly chopped off fingers and ones that healed fifteen years before is pretty obvious to anyone who can see them up close, at least before they reached an advanced state of decomposition.

If the hand was actually sent to King's Landing, then I think it would need to be the real deal. Nailed up over a 15-20 foot high city gate, to be seen by less interested parties, not so much.

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wow, this has got off-topic. I'm personally a R+L=J fan.

Back to topic:

I don't think Davos will die. Manderly would never choose the Lannister side. If he had his son, he would probably openly choose Stannis' side. Also, some people seem to have made mistakes:

a lot of people are talking about how Davos could have had his hands cut off, but wasn't it said that his 'head and hands" were mounted on the walls of Lord Manderly's castle?

Also, somebody said that Rickon was in White Harbor. I might be wrong, as I usually flip through Bran chapters, but isn't Rickon with Bran?

in ACOK it is said that manderly knights and dreadfort men were killing each other in hornwood forests. so there's some bad blood between Manderly & Bolton. it's likeable manderly will finnish bolton off.

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wow, this has got off-topic. I'm personally a R+L=J fan.

Back to topic:

I don't think Davos will die. Manderly would never choose the Lannister side. If he had his son, he would probably openly choose Stannis' side. Also, some people seem to have made mistakes:

a lot of people are talking about how Davos could have had his hands cut off, but wasn't it said that his 'head and hands" were mounted on the walls of Lord Manderly's castle?

Also, somebody said that Rickon was in White Harbor. I might be wrong, as I usually flip through Bran chapters, but isn't Rickon with Bran?

in ACOK it is said that manderly knights and dreadfort men were killing each other in hornwood forests. so there's some bad blood between Manderly & Bolton. it's likeable manderly will finnish bolton off.

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Why not? You could easily chop off somebody's fingers after you've killed them. (Or before, I suppose.)

They'd bleed less afterward. I'd do it that way. :)

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in ACOK it is said that manderly knights and dreadfort men were killing each other in hornwood forests. so there's some bad blood between Manderly & Bolton. it's likeable manderly will finnish bolton off.

Only because the Manderlys were trying to usurp the Hornwood lands just as the Boltons were. I'm not sure that qualifies as "bad blood" (though there are plenty of other reasons to suggest that the Manderlys wouldn't support the Boltons).

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a few clues to jon's R+L=j;

A: we are never told the contents of lyanna's promise , but it's got to be big to haunt ned for 15 years

B: ned says jon's his blood, could mean uncle

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I think Godric's story about Eddard and the fisherman's wife and conceiving Jon is just another rumor like the many other characters in the book who have speculated who Eddard was with during the war.

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That depends on who is supposed to be fooled, how close they look, and when. The difference between freshly chopped off fingers and ones that healed fifteen years before is pretty obvious to anyone who can see them up close, at least before they reached an advanced state of decomposition.

If the hand was actually sent to King's Landing, then I think it would need to be the real deal. Nailed up over a 15-20 foot high city gate, to be seen by less interested parties, not so much.

I don't believe that it was. Looking at the chapter where Qyburn reports Davos's alleged death, Cersei seems satisfied with the report of the Freys and orders that Manderly's son be returned to him.

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I don't believe that it was. Looking at the chapter where Qyburn reports Davos's alleged death, Cersei seems satisfied with the report of the Freys and orders that Manderly's son be returned to him.

Sersei misses too many essential points as we have seen very clearly in AFFC concerning other reports. If Manderly really wanted to present her with clear prove of Davos execution he should have send his head and hand to her instead of mounting them high on spikes. The onion place in the head’s mouth looks like something to improve the expression that it was indeed that of the onion knight. Why would Manderly need it? Sersei however believed into it by very simple reason – she saw no reason for Manderly to lie since she considered Stannis finished and not really dangerous anymore. Otherwise she should have demand Davos alive and not dead. But from freshly published spoiler we know that Manderly was cautions with his answer to Stannis so he clearly prefer to keep all options opened.

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