mysh Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Having read all the chapters about 'Reek' I have a question to other readers.I got a suspicion that he was not only partly flayed, bereft of his fingers, but also gelded. He keeps repeating all the time: I'm not even a man, and is horrified of taking off his clothes. This scene in "The Ghost in Winterfell" particularly struck me:Lady Dustin spoke up. "Take off your gloves."Theon glanced up sharply. "Please, no. I...I...""Do as she says," Ser Aenys said. "Show us your hands."Theon peeled his gloves off and held his hands up for them to see. It is not as if I stand before them naked. It is not so bad as that.He is Theon already, he has more or less regained his consciousness, yet he is horrified by the mere thought of being naked. Why? What is he so ashamed of? What does he want to hide? Also in the same chapter he thinks, "He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue ..." What is "that other thing"?What do you think?(btw, if he is gelded, imo, it's way too much for Theon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I believe you're right. Nasty. Ramsay is a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yeah, that was my reading as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erya Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yeah, that's what I thought as well. Damn, Ramsay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysh Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh my, that IS horrible. :shocked: I lingered on hoping that after his redemption he might have a chance for a family life on Pyke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitri Vorona Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Also, when Ramsay ordered Theon to warm up Jayne/Fake Arya for him, Theon said "But i don't even have..." (not a quote, don't have the book at hand atm). Look quite definitive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Fick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, that line about the "other thing" made me think the same. His behaviour towards Mance's companions at Winterfell is somewhat telling, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yeah, pretty hard to read Theon's chapters. :frown5: Glad he got away with Jeyne, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysh Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 BTW, any ideas on his future in the books to follow? My guess was that Asha would persuade him to claim the Iron Isles, but I don't know if there will be a point in it assuming that Theon is gelded and can't make an heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 BTW, any ideas on his future in the books to follow? My guess was that Asha would persuade him to claim the Iron Isles, but I don't know if there will be a point in it assuming that Theon is gelded and can't make an heir.That is true. Also I don't see him winning the support of the moot in his present state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 This is most obvious. And comes not as a surprise at all. Geld Theon would be first thing to do to him after you have caught him. Especially if you have known him for more than, well, two minutes or so.I did not really enjoy this book as a reader. Mostly because of the Theon chapters - they are disgusting, and I honestly don't want to read stuff like that. This gets not better that he finally seems to himself again in the end. This should have come earlier. It is good that he came eventually, but I don't like it very much.They don't have to reveal to the public that he is gelded, I assume. Somehow I assume that Aeron's first chapter would have revealed what Asha, Theon, and possibly Stannis were up to. Aeron is supposedly not on the Isles anymore, so I'd guess he might be at Torrhen's Square. And I'm sure even Aeron would prefer a mutilated Theon over Euron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The Ironborn aren't too keen on physical disabilities ... so, yeah, Theon isn't a great candidate.I am not sure I will ever be able to reread his chapters, they were sickening. Extremely well done, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He'll probably be useful in the next book as a witness to Ramsay's brutality, if any of the northern lords are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysh Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 This is most obvious. And comes not as a surprise at all. Geld Theon would be first thing to do to him after you have caught. Especially if you have known him for more than, well, two minutes or so.Maybe some people found it obvious, but I didn't want to believe it till the very end. I just don't like beautiful, young, arrogant people turned into "broken things" and hoped that was not the case. We have seen this happen to Bran, Jaime, Brienne (well, she was not beautiful, but she was healthy and complete), Tyrion (the same), Cat, Arya (in ADWD), Cersei (also), Jon, Dany (who's barren) - and now Theon. Who's next? Sansa will have her teats cut?I agree, though, that his chapters were hardly bearable to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banditry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ramsay is a psychopath, no question - and that will be his ruin. The Northmen won't put up with that for long. This business about letting women go into the woods and hunting them down, reminds me of this guy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_HansenI'm wondering if Hansen was a direct inspiration for that bit of storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Just realized this was kinda-sorta-foreshadowed. I was looking up an old Theon chapter in ACoK because of another thread on here that was talking about Theon having a dream about Lyanna. Well, in the same chapter, he has another dream, which involves the miller's wife:The night before, it had been the miller’s wife. Theon had forgotten her name, but he remembered her body, soft pillowy breasts and stretch marks on her belly, the way she clawed his back when he fucked her. Last night in his dream he had been in bed with her once again, but this time she had teeth above and below, and she tore out his throat even as she was gnawing off his manhood. It was madness. He’d seen her die too. Gelmarr had cut her down with one blow of his axe as she cried to Theon for mercy. Leave me, woman. It was him who killed you, not me. And he’s dead as well. At least Gelmarr did not haunt Theon’s sleep.Admittedly, the miller's wife isn't the one who gelded him in reality, but his handling of that situation did help lead to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesta Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I suppose, Theon’s failed attempt to flee from Bolton with Kyra had provoked the situation. As for a dream, I dare say it was nothing more than a guilty conscience. Anyway, by the time he had killed miller’s children, he was already doomed. All in all, his situation is just horrible. I admit I do have a weak spot for the guy, but these chapters made me wish for him to die a clean and swift death in Winterfell instead of falling into Bolton’s hands and surviving. The price of redemption is far too high in Martin’s world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Fick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I did not really enjoy this book as a reader. Mostly because of the Theon chapters - they are disgusting, and I honestly don't want to read stuff like that. This gets not better that he finally seems to himself again in the end. This should have come earlier. It is good that he came eventually, but I don't like it very much.While I can understand your revulsion to some degree, I have to admit that, in my opinion, the Reek/Theon chapters are amongst the strongest of all that Martin has written in A Song of Ice and Fire. Rarely have I read fiction that (for me, at least) worked so well on such a visceral level as these do.And here Martin's often ridiculed repetitions (of which A Dance with Dragons, once again, has far too many) did not feel awkward or annoying, but instead captured Theon's perpetual despair and broken will in a simple, yet very powerful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Page 540 contradicts that assumption to a degree, when confronted by the disguised spear wife. In it he says he wanted to hit her. Then he says he wanted to f*ck her right there. But he does not DARE (not can't) touch her, in anger or lust. Seems to me he's still got the desire then, which is an argument to be made that he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Maybe his manhood is just flayed? Who knows? Ramsay is quite cruel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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