Wolves of Winter Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Except that things like the tour of the stables gave us some really important information about Brandon Stark, potentially Ned Stark's relationship to Brandon Stark, and potential implications for Ashara Dayne (discussed in the thread about Jon's parentage). And they can't just go straight from IMPORTANT STUFF to IMPORTANT STUFF, or we'd know that everything is important. It is kind of important to have filler to bury things in. Well, at least we know Theon is actually a Greyjoy, unmanned as he is, whether he feels he's a failure as a man (a helpless coward) or has actually been Varys-ized. Not sure Ramsey could do the latter, though, without it festering and Theon dying in the stink of Dreadfort's dungeons.This who begat who game of GRRM's is getting a bit tedious, methinks. But Theon is Theon, and his chapters are some of the best-written stuff in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So does Theon being unable to father an heir put a dent in Asha's plans to crown him? Or is this where his bastard (he got that captain's daughter in ACoK pregnant) might come in handy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus777 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (he got that captain's daughter in ACoK pregnant)Is this speculation or has it been confirmed somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMWNN Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Really enjoyed his interactions with poor Jeyne Poole. One broken bird trying to fix another. I mean, I've always been fond of the tool, but I can't imagine anyone still hating him after this.In the more, uh, 'shipping-oriented areas of fandom, Alfie Allen's always been unpopular compared to Richard Madden and Kit Harington, in part because of what Theon becomes starting in A Clash for Kings. I imagine that as the TV show progresses, Theon will be widely detested by show fans starting next season, then as Dance is depicted on screen he will win many new fans who love to sympathize with broken birds. Expect lots of Theon/Jeyne screenshot collages, animated GIFs, fan fiction, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is this speculation or has it been confirmed somewhere?Didn't she raise the possibility? I suppose the voyage itself was too short for us to know for certain. If she did get pregnant, it does give Theon an heir (albeit one that needs to be legitmised). If not, Theon may find it hard to claim the Iron Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stchoo Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I was just happy when I finally got to the chapter titled "Theon" I took it as a sign that he was going to finally turn on Bolton. Bolton's letter to Jon in the end says that he defeated Stannis' army, and says he coming to get his wife, but I doubt he actually did, because his wife was with Theon. If Theon escapes just to get recaptured I'm going to be annoyed. Its amazing how a character you really didn't give a damn about prior to this book, now you are sympathetic towards. I guess that bastard Bolton is just that evil.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axon Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Theon is free right now - Ramsay would not have demanded his return if he had actually defeated Stannis, as he would likely have recaptured him - and I don't think even GRRM would be so cruel as to torture the guy more. Ramsay is about as psychotic as it gets. Hell, Theon's chapters made me like Roose in comparison to Ramsay. Of course, GRRM worked his magic again, and now I actually like Theon, who has ranged between entirely uninteresting to hated during my readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coals Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't see Theon's inability to get an heir as an issue, as long as none of the Ironborn know why. Asha's sons could easily be next in line for succession, historically Henry VIII put his sisters sons in the line of sucession at various points as have alot of monarchs. I think its more about getting Euron OFF the seastone chair than who gets put on at this stage for all the Greyjoys. Theon not being at the Kingsmoot is just a loophole that can be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't think an inability to get an heir will be an issue for Theon. The ironborn seem less into the whole must-keep-the-line-of-succession thing than the rest of Westeros, and seem more willing than most to break from the bloodlines - thus the Kingsmoot to begin with. If Theon can convince the ironborn that he hasn't been broken from the hell he's experienced, they'll follow him in a heartbeat, as that would show the sort of strength you simply can't ignore. Asha would make for a capable adviser and could produce an heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDubya Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 The Reek chapters were, indeed, very good. The best part of an otherwise somewhat disappointing book. Not disappointing as in "sucks" but disappointing as in "not the plot-moving adventure I had hoped" I also believe he's gelded, it makes sense and the comment with Jeyne "I can't..." was telling. I wonder if the original Reek was someone else, like, say, Domeric Bolton. I still despise Theon for all that he did to undermine the Starks. Honestly, I don't particularly care that he's broken - he did some incredibly stupid and vile things. If he hadn't have captured Winterfell, he wouldn't have completely undermined the StarksIf he hadn't "killed" Bran and Rickon, Robb wouldn't have betrayed his oath to the FreysThus no release of JaimeThus Roose never would have negotiated with TywinThus no Red WeddingThus no Lady StoneheartWith Jaime still under guard, no chance that Sansa would have been married to Tyrion (I suspect)No capture of the Greatjon and the other northern lords by the FreysThus (ultimately) no need for Jon to forsake his vows as Lord Commander to kill Ramsay Bolton and get knifed in return.Ultimately, lots and lots of good men and women died and even more suffered tremendously because of Theon. I felt bad for him as Reek, but the only mercy I have for him is to put him out of his misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbaekin Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't see Theon's inability to get an heir as an issue, as long as none of the Ironborn know why. Asha's sons could easily be next in line for succession, historically Henry VIII put his sisters sons in the line of sucession at various points as have alot of monarchs. I think its more about getting Euron OFF the seastone chair than who gets put on at this stage for all the Greyjoys. Theon not being at the Kingsmoot is just a loophole that can be used.This just made me think and wonder a little more about Asha's plot.What if she doesn't need to reveal it? If the Kingsmoot requires that the claimant challenging the moot must be the one crowned, she could just get Theon crowned, and then buy time to work her own alliances...until exposing her "sudden discovery" that Theon is unmanned, at which point she can call another Kingsmoot and be crowned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gytha Ogg Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I disagree he needs to be put out of his misery... yet. I see some redemptive act in Theon (that will probably kill him).I eagerly await Ramsay's painful death, though. Good god what a repulsive character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coals Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 This just made me think and wonder a little more about Asha's plot.What if she doesn't need to reveal it? If the Kingsmoot requires that the claimant challenging the moot must be the one crowned, she could just get Theon crowned, and then buy time to work her own alliances...until exposing her "sudden discovery" that Theon is unmanned, at which point she can call another Kingsmoot and be crowned...exactly. It is a case of anyone but Euron (thats the impression I got of Dhampair's attitude anyway), and what are they going to do? Make Theon get naked before they vote him king? of course not. Once they are rid of Euron it'll be each to his own again, but Theon is the key to that as he is the direct heir, and wasn't there to stake his claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Varys Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 That is true. Also I don't see him winning the support of the moot in his present state.Yes, no ironborn would want to subject himself to a gelding with a defeated soul.Pretty hard to read chapters, but I feel no pity for him. I only regret that Joffrey didn't suffer the same fate before his untimely demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashiara Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Reek's/Theon's chapters were undeniably some of the best writing Martin has done in this series, certainly the best chapters in this book. I don't think they became repetitive and useless at all, I could have read more of them. They almost -almost- made me feel sorry for Theon, nobody truly deserves treatment like that. Ramsay is a rabid lunatic and those chapters really nailed it.I don't think there's any doubt he's gelded, btw, there were hints about it from the very first chapter."The dog..." :shudder:. I'd managed to forget that line. Yeah, me too.:stillsick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axon Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm not certain Theon is heading back to the Iron Islands - I think his death (after some Bolton killin' antics) is more likely, but hey, this is GRRM. An other could pop out in the first chapter and eat Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Stark Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Except that things like the tour of the stables gave us some really important information about Brandon Stark, potentially Ned Stark's relationship to Brandon Stark, and potential implications for Ashara Dayne (discussed in the thread about Jon's parentage). And they can't just go straight from IMPORTANT STUFF to IMPORTANT STUFF, or we'd know that everything is important. It is kind of important to have filler to bury things in.Erm, which chapter was his tour of the stables and where did it mention something about Brandon Stark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Stark Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 It's pretty obvious that the Iron Islands would never accept a bastard on a salt wife. They'd need to come up with something clever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbaekin Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Erm, which chapter was his tour of the stables and where did it mention something about Brandon Stark?I'm sorry, someone else upthread mentioned a tour of the stables rather than a tour of the crypts, and somehow it stuck. The tour of the crypt with Lady Dustin, I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flou Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Even though he is broken and most likely gelded I still despise him, that said, I really loved all the Reek/Theon chapters. He gave us a pov on the rabid lunatic that is Ramsay Bolton and as a character Ramsay is someone I love to hate. Not to mention we see what's going on inside the walls of Winterfell (Go Manderly Go!)Though I'm bit disappointed that Martin didn't write more about the actual escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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