Maltaran Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 So, is he the real Aegon, or has Varys just found a random kid with the right colouring? I'm inclined to say he's real - Varys in the epilogue has no reason to lie, and we keep being told throughout the series how special and unique the Targaryen colouring is.Not that it really matters, since everyone (including him) believes he's Aegon, but it'll be a fun debate. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 "Mummer's dragon", "slayer of lies", I say he's an unwitting fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olennaredyne Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 So do you think that Varys really did arrange for the escape of Baby Aegon, but he died anyway unbeknownst to Varys, either on the journey or in his childhood, and they replaced him with another kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 "Mummer's dragon" does not mean the dragon is fake. Also, Viserys was of Targaryean blood and yet he was no real dragon. Can be interpreted in many different ways. Just as Slayer of Lies, gods know Dany has had a number of lies and liars to deal with.You can't fake Targaryean features though, and Varys has no reason to lie OR play word games with Kevan. Or expect to pass off Rhaegar's son to a probably the only man left who knew him best. He's real, I'm convinced anyway. Whether he's chosen or anything like that is another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 There is a lot of people with Valyrian features still around. Aurane Waters is one. LYsene captain in the Gold Company is another. It couldn't be too difficult to find a likely boy and raise him as Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 ... how special and unique the Targaryen colouring is.ADwD seems to explode that a bit:. . . she was younger than the others, slim and pretty, with long silvery hair. Lyseni, at a guess . . .... a Lyseni named Lysono Maar, with lilac eyes and white-gold hair...... a woman with big blue eyes and pale golden hair streaked by silver. "Serra. I found her in a Lyseni pillow house and brought her home to warm my bed, but in the end I wed her ..."That last is Illyrio speaking. I am suspicious.And what to make of this from Moqorro?"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros. He spoke it very well, with hardly a trace of accent. No doubt that was one reason the high priest Benerro had chosen him to bring the faith of R’hllor to Daenerys Targaryen. "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."Don't know of any false dragons ATM, unless people think he's seeing Melisandre's stone dragons. Otherwise, there must be a fake Targaryen running around, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 There is a lot of people with Valyrian features still around. Aurane Waters is one. LYsene captain in the Gold Company is another. It couldn't be too difficult to find a likely boy and raise him as Aegon.Never both in their purest form, and never with the described noble bearing. Nor is it likely to fool Connigton, who knew his father better then anyone still around. And as others have pointed out, Varys has no reason to lie at this point to Kevan. Its more believable to me that Varys took Aegon then gambled on finding a fake. Him being Aegon doesn't really change anything in my view, and its better for him to play havoc on the legal implications if he is. As I said, Viserys was true-blood Targaryean and yet he too was a false Dragon. Not all of them are going to have the special powers and propensity simply because of their blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Never both in their purest form, and never with the described noble bearing. Nor is it likely to fool Connigton, who knew his father better then anyone still around. And as others have pointed out, Varys has no reason to lie at this point to Kevan. Its more believable to me that Varys took Aegon then gambled on finding a fake. Him being Aegon doesn't really change anything in my view, and its better for him to play havoc on the legal implications if he is. As I said, Viserys was true-blood Targaryean and yet he too was a false Dragon. Not all of them are going to have the special powers and propensity simply because of their blood.He could be Illyrio's son. It would explain a lot. It probably didn't take long to assume that Viserys was bound for an early grave. I just don't buy him as Aegon, it's a lie Varys would have to sell. What do you do if you need someone from a family line for legitimacy but that line is totally tainted with more than half the kids freaking crazy. Make your own. "Aegon" has none of the corruption of inbreeding or social taint of being raised to be a prick. In this, he is a bit like Dany. Strangely, he's probably her ideal husband as he has the same ideas about rule that she has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Casterly Rock Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 My theory is that "Aegon" is the son of Ashara Dayne. She hat Tagaryen-eyes, so this would explain his coloring. And this theory fit perfectly with my other theory "Sepra" Lemore = Ashara Dayne. But perhaps the last books surprise me and he is the real Tagaryen hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Moody Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Looking back at the descriptions of Aegon in Dance, I don't notice any evidence that he looks stunningly Targaryen. Unless I missed it, we don't "see" him with the dye washed out of his hair, so all we have is his eyes, which Tyrion says look different based on the light level, and which Jon Connington himself thinks are lighter than Rhaegar's were.If Connington ever saw the real Aegon, it was as a baby; being friends with someone doesn't grant a mystical ability to distinguish his child from a similar-looking one. And Connington seems desperate enough to redeem himself for his mistake at the Battle of the Bells that he might believe in this Aegon on slim evidence. "Noble bearing" is something any handsome young man who's been taught to regard himself as the heir to a throne will have.Varys has no reason to tell Kevan the full truth. He's trying to ease the man's suffering, which a long explanation of how some random baseborn kid is taking the throne would hardly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus777 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Connington believes him to be Aegon, though I suppose it wouldn't be terrible difficult to fool him seeing as he was exiled when the swap may have happened. Could he tell the difference between Aegon and a similarly featured boy? I thought pulling Aegon out of a hat was a lame twist at first. But I ended up liking it because he and Connington actually did something. If they had ended up as yet another Dany suitor heading East, I would not have cared for it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Varys has no reason to tell Kevan the full truth. He's trying to ease the man's suffering, which a long explanation of how some random baseborn kid is taking the throne would hardly do.Plus if I was him, i'd be trying to forget that Aegon is fake, and always refer to him as real, even in my own head. That sort of secret should never be said out loud, even if you're about to kill the person you're telling (classic supervillain mistake, that one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 My issue with Varys is, does he now expect Daenerys will fail and begin hastening that failure? Because he can dress up a fake Aegon all he wants, Drogo will not be deceived. Because if he is a fake Aegon, which I firmly believe, the only way this plan comes off is if the dragons never get a chance to test that claim. Speaking of which, for those that believe as I do that Aegon is a fake, any new theories on who the third head of the dragon could be based on ADwD? Are we really down to Tyrion and that's it? I'm pretty well convinced that whoever it is, it won't be a Targaryen since the writer said it need not be one, which to me confirms that one of the heads won't be one, otherwise, why would that information even be relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He could be Illyrio's son. It would explain a lot. It probably didn't take long to assume that Viserys was bound for an early grave. I just don't buy him as Aegon, it's a lie Varys would have to sell. What do you do if you need someone from a family line for legitimacy but that line is totally tainted with more than half the kids freaking crazy. Make your own. "Aegon" has none of the corruption of inbreeding or social taint of being raised to be a prick. In this, he is a bit like Dany. Strangely, he's probably her ideal husband as he has the same ideas about rule that she has.He didn't mind using Dany or Viserys, why should he mind with Aegon? I could have assumed that, which is why its better to save Aegon and have Viserys take all the risk. At the very least Aegon is not as likely given he was not born of pure incest, he's also a son of Dorne as well. And sell to who? Kevan? Why bother with him? In that moment Varys had nothing but the truth to say, anything else would have been pointless. Connington? He better then anyone could see through it given his deep ties and connection to the royal family and Rhaegar. He'd have to sell it either way in covering up Aegon's death, so better to have a truth that is claimed a lie then a lie that could be found out as not being true, that solves so many more problems in my opinion. And the risk is significantly less given that Aegon is also half Dornish, not to mention Rhaegar's progenity, Rhaegar's prowess alone should be enough to give a chance to his son, especially if you'll control his development and upbringing. Certainly Aegon has a better off then Dany in the crap-shoot of Targaryean sanity, which is why it makes so much sense to push all the risk onto her and Viserys, who ARE already proven true-born bloods and whose claim would not be in doubt to begin with.My issue with Varys is, does he now expect Daenerys will fail and begin hastening that failure? Because he can dress up a fake Aegon all he wants, Drogo will not be deceived. Because if he is a fake Aegon, which I firmly believe, the only way this plan comes off is if the dragons never get a chance to test that claim. Isn't that an argument that he IS in fact a Targaryean? Everyone who knows about Dragons seems convinced you have to be of the blood in order to even stand a chance of taming one. And originally Aegon WAS going to Dany in order to get a dragon, as was part of the original (heavily modified) plan. After all this time Varys does not seem likely to risk his pawn if he already knew Aegon was a fake, the whole expedition to Westeros was an unexpected turn of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus777 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Speaking of which, for those that believe as I do that Aegon is a fake, any new theories on who the third head of the dragon could be based on ADwD? Are we really down to Tyrion and that's it? I'm pretty well convinced that whoever it is, it won't be a Targaryen since the writer said it need not be one, which to me confirms that one of the heads won't be one, otherwise, why would that information even be relevant?Well, Blood Raven did tell Bran that he would fly. But he probably just meant he would skin change into a bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Note, BTW, that Illyrio in his youth was a lean, beautiful waterdancer.Young Griff being a lean, lithe swordsman of some competence isn't definitive, what with Rhaegar also having been very good, but... it doesn't seem that far off a notion, that Young Griff could be his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsala Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Mummer's dragon. He's a fake, but he's Varys's pet project to raise the perfect king for the good of the realm.I suspected that "Young Griff" was (fake) Aegon ever since that Tyrion chapter summary with Young Griff mentioned came out so many years ago, though I think someone else gave me the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Could he be a Blackfyre descendant? Or a descendant of Aerion Brightflame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Can we at least ASSUME the hair is a foregone conclusion else wise why bother dying it if he can't even LOOK the part if he was fake?And once again, you do NOT have to be a non-Targaryean to be a fake. Example Visery's anyone? Also, examine the wording. Murmmer's dragon, Murmmer's as in possessive, so fake as in the fake's dragon, not necessarily that the fake dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen loyalist Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 In my opinion Young Griff is truly Aegon the Sixth of His Name... Varys has no reason to lie to Kevan Lannister.Moreover, also in one of Ser Barristan chapters the story of the supposed death of Aegon (the kid's head smashed and impossible to recognize) support the "Young Griff = Real Aegon". Also Connington in 20 years should have spotted if Young Griff was a fake (from his POV is clear that he believes that Young Griff is the Prince). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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