Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 1

72 posts in this topic

With Edd's luck he'd never see a copper from the sales of his book. The world would get his wisdom, yet as usual Edd gets nothing.

With Edd Tollet's luck they'd mistype Tollet as Toilet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot how much I missed Jon. He seems so much older and stronger in this chapter. I loved his dealings with Stannis. The way he talked to him reminded me of the way Davos talked to him; I think he respects that.

I'm scared for Jon after Mel's warning although we know that Cersei at least wants him dead.

I hope we get more information about the spells at the wall. We know it defends itself, but that's about all we've learned about the spells.

I had hoped we'd heard the end of the "you know nothing" phrase though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was hoping that Jon knew that Bran was alive from his experience at the Queenscrown. It saddens me that he doesn't and that he just hopes that some of his brothers live on in their wolves.

Mel warning him to keep Ghost near reminded me of when Robb stopped having Grey Wind around so much and how it's possible that his ignoring his wolf's warnings made it possible for him to be betrayed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved this chapter. First of all it was great to hear from Jon again and I loved the way he stood up to Stannis, he reminded me of Eddard.

Mel's comment that sometimes she mistakes this must come for this may come struck me as interesting, I wonder if this is a hint that not all the prophecies/visions in the book may come true?

And some great lines in this chapter-Mel saying Stannis is getting fond of him and then Jon saying yes he's only threatened to behead me twice. And Stannis' request for food "boiled eggs and lemon water" cracked me up. And Mel's last line was classic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an important question but,

Does anyone remember how Ghost got back on the south side of the wall after Jon returned from Queenscrown? I just remember he showed back up one day. Did he find the gate and they let him through?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I admit I do get overwhelmed with the detail in these books. My sense after reading about the wolves was that it was Shaggy he couldn't sense which made me wonder about where he is. Greywater watch makes sense. But Summer being beyond the wall also makes sense. I guess I'll have to re-read myself.

I was definitely wondering about the raven. I believe someone is living inside him, but I'm not at all convinced it's Mormont. That would be cool, though. Interesting argument that it could be Benjen instead. I'll wait for further clues...

Loved Jon's sparring with Stannis. I do think he should take Melisandre's advice and keep Ghost closer. There are obvious enemies who would love to see him dead and apparently unseen enemies as well. I don't want to see another version of the Red Wedding!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aw yes, re-read the beginning of the chapter. It is Summer who Ghost cannot sense though he know's he is still alive and beyond the wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been enjoying the forum for a while now, and decided to register and be a part.

Benjen Stark is a character surrounded by mystery. Could the children of Howland Reed be leading Bran to Benjen? Is Benjen also blessed with the power to warg? Is he Mormont's crow, or something else? Maybe the three-eyed crow that had been visiting Bran was Benjen trying to get through to him?

I just finished AFFC, and feel like I have read right through so many clues. I think everything ties together, but would love to know what Howland reed witnessed along with Eddard Stark in the Tower of Joy (probably the secret of who Jon's parents are).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really enjoyed this chapter and its good to hear about Jon Snow again he is undoubtedly my favorite character, along with Bran. I wish the two of them along with Arya would be reunited again. I was indifferent about Robb dieing, even Catlyn. And Sansa just never caught my interest except I wanted her far far away from Joffrey the Cruel who even went so far as to contemplate raping her? Yuck ugh the best thing that happened in Feast for Crows is that damn wedding in which he was killed. ...But I love Arya, Jon and Bran. I'm scared that if Bran wargs and never becomes human again then Jon and Arya will never know that he never died :bang: Please GRRM dont torture me like that.

Also I am really speculating about Melisandre. Is she good, or bad? or both? If if Jon is a Targaryan then does she want to kill him for his blood? The good possibility is that she wants to help him become Kind of the whole world? Somehow I dont believe she's up to good , so far I mean she killed or wanted to kill children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if the final Jon chapter of ASOS (the 12 Jon chapter of ASOS) occured on the

24/03/300 in which Jon was elected LC, then how many days has it been since then?

I think that Sam is not sent away from Castle Black with Aemon until

08/04/300 AFFC Sam 1. So if Sam is still at Castle Black, then this chapter occurs before the 8/04/300 right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this chapter! I was so happy to see Jon Snow again... we got a glimpse of him through Sam's eyes in AFFC, but it just wasn't enough for me. I have a book crush on Jon.

There is definitely more to Mormont's raven than it just being a smart bird. Someone has got to be in there. And there's no way GRRM could just let Benjen Stark disappear. He'll definitely tie up that loose end. The question is how he will do that.

I personally was getting super tired of hearing Ygritte say, "You know nothing, Jon Snow." over and over again. But when Mel said it.... my jaw definitely dropped. Can't wait to keep reading Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not an important question but, Does anyone remember how Ghost got back on the south side of the wall after Jon returned from Queenscrown? I just remember he showed back up one day. Did he find the gate and they let him through?

Ghost returns when Jon walks outside the Wall while pondering the election of the LC in the last Jon chapter in ASOS. Jon had had to leave without him when he climbed the Wall with Ygritte and the WIldlings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found the chapter interesting as well as the comments here.

Firstly i had reread the series before starting to read ADWD. I found it really interesting actually seeing from Jons POV what was going on before he made his decision to send Sam and Gilly to Oldtown. It seems to me that Jon has matured because he realises that he is having to be political and think beyond just the next battle or next night, like in ASOS when he was defacto LC.

I had never though Mormont being a warg but I can see now that his crow may have been taken over by a warg since it is certainly more intelligent than a normal crow. It also makes me think back to the crow being in the kettle when Jon was elected LC and that the crow took itself there.

Mels line also gave me pause, "you know nothing" but i also have a feeling that what she sees in the flames may be false as in AFOC it was the flames of the Dragon Glass they were looking into. ATM I think she is using gossip and whispers and then moulding it to let people think she can see things in the flames.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First at all, excellent forum (by the way, my first post).

What are the chances, that Ygrette and Melisandre are the same person, or at least, some kind of spirit send by Melisandre to keep safe Jon with the wildlings, because Melisandre took towards Stannis, the same attitude that Ygrette tooks with Mance Rayder, when speaking with Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much love I have for the story of "You know nothing Jon Snow" my favorite line so far in this chapter is undoubtedly,

"Three corn and one roast raven. Very good m'lord."

Edd is awesome. As much as I hate that bloody bird of Mormont's, he did get Jon the Lord Commander position after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aw yes, re-read the beginning of the chapter. It is Summer who Ghost cannot sense though he know's he is still alive and beyond the wall.

Isn't it more likely Lady and now Grey Wind which Ghost can't sence? After Red wedding. 6 wolves and 2 are dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@voodooqueen126 I had the same question- the timing seems off for me? Anyone know?

Ps- first timer here. Love all the great analysis! You guys are smart! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Then you know nothing, Jon Snow."

I wanted to punch her in the face for that. How dare you.

I found it very wrong of her to use that line just so she might have some affect on Jon.

Of course, I've disliked the red woman from her first appearance, so I could be a little biased... but I'll be really upset if she ends up having some of Ygritte's spirit in her, or if she sleeps with Jon or something. Her using that line has to be symbolic in some way and I don't like any of the possible explanations that come to mind...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it more likely Lady and now Grey Wind which Ghost can't sence? After Red wedding. 6 wolves and 2 are dead.

Well, he mentions the two wolves that died, so I think when he refers to the one he can't sense, he's talking about one of the wolves that are still alive. I assumed he meant Shaggydog. All the wolves have similar personalities to their respective Starks -- Lady was very demure and nonviolent like Sansa, etc. Shaggydog is very wild and disobedient -- much more violent and volatile than the others. Rickon becomes very dark and angry in the book. I think Rickon is going to become somewhat malevolent and hate/isolate himself from others (or perhaps he already has -- who knows what's going on with Osha and Rickon right now?) and that is why he can't sense Shaggydog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Commoner wrote:

"I assumed he meant Shaggydog. All the wolves have similar personalities to their respective Starks -- Lady was very demure and nonviolent like Sansa, etc. Shaggydog is very wild and disobedient -- much more violent and volatile than the others. Rickon becomes very dark and angry in the book. I think Rickon is going to become somewhat malevolent and hate/isolate himself from others (or perhaps he already has -- who knows what's going on with Osha and Rickon right now?) and that is why he can't sense Shaggydog"

That's possible Commoner, but I go with the "Summer" theory. There seems to be a clear reference to the black wolf eating a large goat. I didn't notice this the first time I read the chapter but this is almost certainly a unicorn that Shaggy dog is eating on Skagos. The text says:

A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat,

washing the blood from his side where the goat’s long horn had raked him. In another place,

his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off

their hunt to sing with her.

Nymeria is with the 100 smaller cousins. Therefore it must be Summer that Ghost can't sense. The other 2 wolves are dead. I would love to hear more about Rickon and Osha. I guess we'll have to wait for a Davos chapter in WoW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites