JD44Irish Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Last of the Mohicans, anyone?Very... great call.Also, what about the horn that was destroyed? Black and eight feet long, banded in gold with runes from the First men on it. Its sort of similar to the description of the horn that Euron Greyjoy found in AFFC. That was described as shiny black and twisted and taller than a man. It has bands of red gold and dark steel with ancient Valyrian glyphs that glowed red when blown. Very similar no? Whats the relationship?I am guessing these aren't the only horns or that the horns are switched. I wonder if Euron's horn could have an effect on the wall? We'll find out later in the book I guess... either way, I don't think we've seen the end of the horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windchaser Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 And here I'd only planned on making a comment on how sad it was to see Jon send his friends away to the other towers and find that there's another conspiracy theory afoot. Possible Mance switcheroo? Oh, my. If this is true...Jon really is clever. But I must wonder where he'd hide the real Mance...It's not like you could pass him off as someone else, like his son. I really would like a look into Mel's head. She's the character that's the biggest mystery to me right now. She seems to have some interest in Jon, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrusOctavianus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Anyone reacting to Stannis calling The Wall "my Wall"?Why doesn't Jon voice his doubts to Mel and Stan about Lightbringer not being the real thing? Or at least ask innocently why it does not give off any heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLight Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 There are other walls, like the Black Wall around Volantis. Maybe there are other magic horns?Why did John send Pyp and Gren away??? And shun his friends at dinner? That does not bode well for poor Jon! I think I remember from one of the other books someone mentioning that Ned used to keep an open spot at the head of his table and invite a different "regular Joe" to eat with him each night. With everything else Jon has learned from Ned, I would have hoped that would have been one of them. I have always liked Jon's POV but I don't like all this brooding loneliness and sending all his friends away.I have also tried to stifle the impulse to compare Stannis' rule with Hitler's and especially the way Davos so blindly follows him with the way so many people did bad things and followed a bad guy out of loyalty and the principle of the "right to rule." Davos is just too much of a follower to me. I'd love to see him thinking for himself for once and making a choice that doesn't necessarily benefit Stannis and Mel. Or just strap all 3 to a pyre and burn them along with their storyline. They drive me nuts. Maybe that feeling will change after Mel's POV. One can hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrusOctavianus Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Why did John send Pyp and Gren away??? And shun his friends at dinner? That does not bode well for poor Jon! I think I remember from one of the other books someone mentioning that Ned used to keep an open spot at the head of his table and invite a different "regular Joe" to eat with him each night. With everything else Jon has learned from Ned, I would have hoped that would have been one of them. I have always liked Jon's POV but I don't like all this brooding loneliness and sending all his friends away.Jon needed to "kill the boy" and Pyp and Gren are his boyhood friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 And here I'd only planned on making a comment on how sad it was to see Jon send his friends away to the other towers and find that there's another conspiracy theory afoot. Possible Mance switcheroo? Oh, my. If this is true...Jon really is clever. But I must wonder where he'd hide the real Mance...It's not like you could pass him off as someone else, like his son. I really would like a look into Mel's head. She's the character that's the biggest mystery to me right now. She seems to have some interest in Jon, why?If there was a switch, which I really hope there was because I'd hate to see Mance go out all wimpy like that, I don't think Jon had anything to do with it. In his head, he kept thinking of him as Mance. So, as far as Jon is concerned it's Mance. I don't know who else would do the switch though, but I don't think it's Jon.She does seem to have some interest in Jon. Could be she thinks he's important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I wonder what Melisandre's intentions are, surely she must know that Lightbringer isn't what it should be...I think she's done something to Lightbringer to make it appear to be the sword. I think she's so convinced that she has the outcome of the prophecy correct, that Stannis is AA, that she's forcing all the elements to be correct. Perhaps it will dawn on her in time, especially once she starts hearing of the dragons and Dany that she'll realize her folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Anyone reacting to Stannis calling The Wall "my Wall"?Why doesn't Jon voice his doubts to Mel and Stan about Lightbringer not being the real thing? Or at least ask innocently why it does not give off any heat?I noticed that too; I figured he meant "my wall" as in he's the king of Westeros so he thinks it's all his. Still it's quite presumptuous.I think it's very smart that Jon not voice any doubts about the sword at this point. As Maester Aemon said to him, knowledge is his armor or weapon, and it would be dangerous for him to start voicing his doubts. It's better for him to know these things and carefully observe everything, which he has been noted for since AGoT, then after he's collected everything he needs to know, he can time it better for when he spreads that knowledge. Right now, it's better for them to think he's clueless on this front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Few of the Fingers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think it's very smart that Jon not voice any doubts about the sword at this point. As Maester Aemon said to him, knowledge is his armor or weapon, and it would be dangerous for him to start voicing his doubts. It's better for him to know these things and carefully observe everything, which he has been noted for since AGoT, then after he's collected everything he needs to know, he can time it better for when he spreads that knowledge. Right now, it's better for them to think he's clueless on this front.Just like his father did! Oh, wait... If there was a Mance-switching, maybe it was Melisandre's work. She knows Stannis is not AA reborn. Maybe she's reserving the King-beyond-the-Wall to burn it for the rightful king, AA reborn, (the princa that was promised, why not!) a man that she's now becoming very fond of: Jon. Look carefully into Melisandre's words, and you'll see that she never says Stannis name. She addresses him with. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moester Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought there was probably of a Mance-switching. It was anti-climactic and he was too much of a coward when he was put into the cage. I began having doubts when I read this statement "...and screamed incoherently of treachery and witchery" Treachery? As far as I know it was only Jon who betrayed him, still he knew about Jon's situation way before and it does not make sense to bring it up again now. The one thing I'm not too sure about is how the wildlings weren't able to make a fuss if they did realise that it wasn't Mance who was going to be burned. Perhaps they were too tired/hungry to make a comment or because of Mance's bloody face (like someone pointed out) that they weren't able to recognize his features? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Ready Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Very... great call. Also, what about the horn that was destroyed? Black and eight feet long, banded in gold with runes from the First men on it. Its sort of similar to the description of the horn that Euron Greyjoy found in AFFC. That was described as shiny black and twisted and taller than a man. It has bands of red gold and dark steel with ancient Valyrian glyphs that glowed red when blown. Very similar no? Whats the relationship? I am guessing these aren't the only horns or that the horns are switched. I wonder if Euron's horn could have an effect on the wall? We'll find out later in the book I guess... either way, I don't think we've seen the end of the horns. I've kind of been thinking that they aren't the real thing. I mean, they're obviously powerful or enchanted or whatever... but pretty ostentatious. I've always been really curious about that horn that Jon found (and gave to Sam) buried with all the dragonglass. My money is on that one. It's so unassuming, and it was with other things that are obviously very important to that part of the story, and everyone seems to have forgotten about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesitantreader Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I thought Daenerys smothered the Kal before burning him and waking her dragons, so I am a bit confused on why Melisandre keeps needing to burn these people alive, but perhaps her magic is a crueler version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forelver Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I agree that it could have been a fake Mance, it didn't seem anything like him at all to me. Also when Mance says "This is not right, I'm not the king" that could have a double meaning. Re the horn: Ygritte told Jon Mance never found the horn, could this mean this isn't the true Horn of Joramun and Ygritte was telling the truth? And Melisandre kills me the way she talks of choosing the right but then thinks it's ok to burn babies and other human sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonDreams Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 What if the switching of Mance occurred before he was captured? Stannis and Mel think they have the right person and Jon/wildings don't bother to set them right? Can't remember the details of Mance's capturing tho and don't have the books handy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AStrappingHealthyWench Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I hope someone can explain this to me...it's been bugging me since Mel and Stannis got to the Wall.Mance isn't really a king, right...just a NW deserter who styled himself king-beyond-the-wall. So, why does Mel need him and his baby's blood/need them to burn? I don't understand why their blood is any different from anybody else's. If anyone can just call themselves a king and their blood gets all magical...well, this just doesn't make sense.I can't stand Mel (and Stannis). She strikes me as being pure evil...but I can't help but notice that she does acknowledge that the Others are the biggest problem in the realm. I still think she is manipulating Stannis (and maybe Jon next???) to carry out some big plan she has...but I have no idea what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laohu Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I wonder what Melisandre's intentions are, surely she must know that Lightbringer isn't what it should be...This Azor Ahai prophecy is shrouded in mystery, but we do seem to be given bits and pieces of this prophecy time and again - the latest of which coming from the "Jade Compendium". Am I alone in thinking that Stannis can still fulfill the prophecy by killing his wife with this sword?Personally, I do not adhere to the belief that Stannis is AA reborn, but I do not understand why he is immediately discounted because of the current state of his sword. Unless there is a requirement for the sword's construction that I do not recall from ACoK, who is to say that the sword is not simply incomplete?Regardless of how this will play out, it is plain to see that Melisandre does not see the future in her flames very accurately. She even admits this herself, so whatever confidence she may exhibit regarding her foretellings should be taken at face value anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Timbo Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Mance's death was disappointing (echoes of the burning of heretics in middle ages - war of religions)Obviously being done for political purposes - and to make all the 'free people' kneelers. It seems as though this chapter is the clearest and the first time we have fire and ice present as significant 'forces' - since these are the two headline elements in the whole series. THere was fire at crasters of course and on the fist - but it is taking on a greater significance with melisandre... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winwolf Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 cannot wait for melissandres chapter ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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