Xray the Enforcer Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 A discussion of the second Dany chapter. Do not discuss events from later in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aganerral Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Think this was the chapter with Dany's visit from/vision of Quaithe. Do we know who all the people coming that Quaithe referenced are? Lion would be Tyrion, sun's son would be Martell, Kraken would be Victarion, but there were others that I'm not so sure of. One of them refers to the Griffs and I'm drawing blanks on the others. Unfortunately, at work right now so can't get the exact quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.t. Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her comes the others."I have no idea who the pale mare is, but it's a female."Kraken" - a Greyjoy, probably Victarion"Dark flame" - I don't know. Marwyn?"Lion" - Tyrion"Griffon" - "Griff," whoever he is, and I have my suspicions."Sun's son" - Quentyn Martell"Mummer's Dragon" - I don't know. Aurane Waters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting129 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 could "dark flame" be Darkstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.t. Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Also, the way it's written, it seems like "others" refers to the kraken through dragon list. However, could "others" actually be referring to The Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aganerral Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Actually, I thought Dark Flame might be in reference to Griff. It makes me think of the Blackfyres;wasn't Golden Company founded by one?The pale mare, mummer's dragon, and griffens/dark flame were the ones I'm not sure of. the reason I don't want to link Griff to griffen is that the other references seem to be callout to the house symbols, and I haven't picked up if the Griffs have a sigil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish hedgehog Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Idk if i trust Quaithe, but ONLY bc she says not to trust everyone, and if there is ANYONE i trust in these books its the Imp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish hedgehog Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 how would YOU deal w/ the sons of the harpy? the hostages thing is a good idea, it worked in feudal japan right? i also like the freedmen militias i hope it works out. bc, afterall, she IS going to have to leave at one point to westeros RIGHT?! these freedmen need to fend for themselvles lest they fall victim to jim crow laws and kkk sons of harpies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmaster Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Theme of the book so far seems to be about becoming a monster and or being somebody's monster.Starting with the prologue really, in which sixskins becomes a monster at a young age. I can't recall if he was actually ever told he was a "monster" in those words. Since it hadn't re-occured yet I probably wouldn't have noticed.But then we have Bran's 1st chapter "I'm your monster Brandon Stark", Tyrion's (2nd?)chapter "your monster" and now Dany's chapter ending with "mother of monsters... If they are monsters so am I" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyDogIsNamedDanerys Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 ARGH DANY this chapter was sooooo sad argh...This is the first time that Dany has really hit a serious roadblock since the end of the first book. I know this is what people have been waiting for - many have complained that her road has been too smooth, her victory too certain. Well, here we are. I hope everyone is happy! Her army slowly being bled to death, her city slowly starving, her dragons in chains, her allies all gone. It's so hard to take for me - Dany is my favorite character and that makes the dread I'm feeling so much more personal. My thoughts after this chapter: - Ser Barristan is a very poor replacement for Ser Jorah as her adviser. He rarely gives advice to her out of some misplaced sense of deference, and the advice he does give is just wrong. Dany should not stay away from her dragons, she should GO TO THEM. Make sure the bond stays strong, even if they have to stay captive. He proposes that they have a TOURNEY instead of opening the fighting pits? How out of touch can you be, old man? I want to punch this idiot in the FACE. Especially because I have decided to blame Ser Barristan for Ser Jorah being banished in the first place (go ahead and ask me why, I dare you. GO AHEAD. :tantrum:)- Dany. You need to fuck someone already so that you stop thinking about Daario and his goddamn eyes and his stupid naked women daggers. He's 100% scumbag. You know that very well. You have told us as much directly, so we know that. Just stop. Stop. STOP. Get some ex-slave to service you and be done with it. - Dany is so very alone. I teared up in the scene with Missandei. I just... argh. Isn't there a way out? Is there an honorable way to escape? A way taht would somehow spare her people and her dragons? I am not alla bout the damsel in distress stuff, though, so I don't want it to be "Tyrion and the Mercenaries sweep her away"! Or anything. I just... I just want her to set the city to rights, and leave for WEsteros post-haste. I think I am personally feeling the same conflict that GRRM himself must have felt untangling his "knot". This is Dany caught right in the middle of it. And no one, NO ONE giving her good, true, honest advice. Everyone has an agenda.- AND THEN! Quathe pops up and basically says "Don't trust anyone you meet for the rest of the book!" I think this is an irritating plot device by GRRM so that he can make it believable when she is unreasonably hostile to Quentyn, Tyrion, Victarion etc when they show up. I don't really get it, either. I mean I get not trusting the senechal guy, but everyone else? What is Quathe getting at? One of Dany's greatest strengths as a leader has been how open-armed she is towards those that swear allegiance to her. I would find it extremely annoying if this changes, all due to some "don't trust anyone!" plot device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrusOctavianus Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's rather frustrating to see Dany's lack of focus. She should be focusing her energy on her dragons. They are the real base of her power and her main weapon for conquering Westeros and destroying Others.Yes, Slaver's Bay is a cruel place with its slavery, but it's still better than the Ironborn and especially the Dothraki, whose cultures are based on looting, raping, killing and enslaving. The culture of Slaver's Bay and most of the Free Cities and other city states are based on trade and slavery, not on killing and looting. Maybe Dany should be more concerned on those who sell the slaves - mainly the Dothraki? Apart from the raping, she didn't seem to be overly concerned with their atrocities when she was part of them.Dany needs to shift her focus away from slavery and playing queen, and start learning all she can about controling her dragons, instead of locking them up!BTW, interesting that just as Dany muses about the three treasons "One for blood, one for gold and one for..." she is interrupted by Missandei.Foreshadowing? Dany loves her little scribe and Missandei seems to love Dany. Maybe Missandei will be forced to betray Dany to save her brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon blackfyre Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Wow this chapter just changed everything! This book is awesome. I wonder how the dissapearance of Drogon relates on the timeline to Euron blowing his magic horn at the Kingsmoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steinman Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 In this chapter I was so frustrated with Dany. Locking up the dragons I can somehow understand, but she should spend HOURS every day with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Actually, I thought Dark Flame might be in reference to Griff. It makes me think of the Blackfyres;wasn't Golden Company founded by one?The pale mare, mummer's dragon, and griffens/dark flame were the ones I'm not sure of. the reason I don't want to link Griff to griffen is that the other references seem to be callout to the house symbols, and I haven't picked up if the Griffs have a sigil.Some people have speculated that Griff is Jon Connington whose house emblem is a Griifin. She said before that a mummer's dragon was a cloth dragon - perhaps it could be a fake Targaryen?I wonder why she's being warned against the Martells though; it seems they have a common cause.Maybe the dark flame could refer to a red priest or priestess?I want her to unlock her dragons though. She needs to be near them and connecting to them just like the Stark children need to be connecting with the wolves. No good can come from keeping them locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the maester Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Quaithe's propheties:"To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow""The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin,the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."The first one says to do something, you must first do the opposite. The second says to not trust the envoys that are on their way. If you read them together, I think it says "to trust the envoys, you must first distrust them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Timbo Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 GRRM is building up to some big climax with the retaming of the Dragons.... nice work....Dany is shrewd but also trying to be too clever at times - needs to roll with the punches a bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandoMCFC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Quaithe is a very interesting character, have a feeling shes got a much bigger part to play in this story, we havent even scratched the surface with her...and i believe GRRM had here cast and put in the show for this reason as well. Plenty more of Quaithe to come im sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaleesiDany Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Quaithe is one of my top favorite characters, she is so mysterious I can't wait to find out who she is and why she goes out of her way to help (?) Danaerys.My guesses on the prophecy: I'm not sure who the pale mare is, but I feel like I should? If it isn't revealed in this book, I will look for it when i re-read. Kraken must be an ironborn (probably Victarion) and someone he comes with is dark flame. Lion is Tyrion and Griffin is well isn't it obvious? Griff. The sun's son is Quentyn, and the mummer's dragon, I am pretty sure I know who it is, but I don't want to spoil the surprise . . . look for him in the next Tyrion chapter Dany is on the wrong track when it comes to interpreting the house of the undying prophecy, I'm sure of it. But these are just guesses! I was sure Loras Tyrell was going to rescue Sansa from king's landing, so i dont exactly have a brilliant track record with my theories.In this chapter I was so frustrated with Dany. Locking up the dragons I can somehow understand, but she should spend HOURS every day with them.Argh! You're so right! It's like taking care of any animal, you have to train it while it is young and still wants to listen to you. Locking them up will just make them vicious. i think she has no excuse for not spending more time with them. Meereen will have to survive on its own, she should be delegating more so she can hold court less, and spend more time training her dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winwolf Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 dany please make someone "hand of the queen" if thats even possible xD.and let him deal with court, while u train ur dragons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkTagaryen Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 ARGH DANY this chapter was sooooo sad argh...This is the first time that Dany has really hit a serious roadblock since the end of the first book. I know this is what people have been waiting for - many have complained that her road has been too smooth, her victory too certain. Well, here we are. I hope everyone is happy! Her army slowly being bled to death, her city slowly starving, her dragons in chains, her allies all gone. It's so hard to take for me - Dany is my favorite character and that makes the dread I'm feeling so much more personal. My thoughts after this chapter:- Ser Barristan is a very poor replacement for Ser Jorah as her adviser. He rarely gives advice to her out of some misplaced sense of deference, and the advice he does give is just wrong. Dany should not stay away from her dragons, she should GO TO THEM. Make sure the bond stays strong, even if they have to stay captive. He proposes that they have a TOURNEY instead of opening the fighting pits? How out of touch can you be, old man? I want to punch this idiot in the FACE. Especially because I have decided to blame Ser Barristan for Ser Jorah being banished in the first place (go ahead and ask me why, I dare you. GO AHEAD. :tantrum:)- Dany. You need to fuck someone already so that you stop thinking about Daario and his goddamn eyes and his stupid naked women daggers. He's 100% scumbag. You know that very well. You have told us as much directly, so we know that. Just stop. Stop. STOP. Get some ex-slave to service you and be done with it. - Dany is so very alone. I teared up in the scene with Missandei. I just... argh. Isn't there a way out? Is there an honorable way to escape? A way taht would somehow spare her people and her dragons? I am not alla bout the damsel in distress stuff, though, so I don't want it to be "Tyrion and the Mercenaries sweep her away"! Or anything. I just... I just want her to set the city to rights, and leave for WEsteros post-haste. I think I am personally feeling the same conflict that GRRM himself must have felt untangling his "knot". This is Dany caught right in the middle of it. And no one, NO ONE giving her good, true, honest advice. Everyone has an agenda.- AND THEN! Quathe pops up and basically says "Don't trust anyone you meet for the rest of the book!" I think this is an irritating plot device by GRRM so that he can make it believable when she is unreasonably hostile to Quentyn, Tyrion, Victarion etc when they show up. I don't really get it, either. I mean I get not trusting the senechal guy, but everyone else? What is Quathe getting at? One of Dany's greatest strengths as a leader has been how open-armed she is towards those that swear allegiance to her. I would find it extremely annoying if this changes, all due to some "don't trust anyone!" plot device.Her dragons being chained and trapped in a prison made me cry she should be with them and training them because I keep worrying about Victarion and that damn horn he has and now her one dragon has left :crying:SHE NEEDS TO SPEND TIME WITH THEM OTHERWISE SHE WILL LOSE THEM!!!!! I want to yell at her and help her her pov chapters stress me out now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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