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Linda

[ADwD Spoilers] Updating the Citadel

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If you look at the timeline, Marwyn left very very late - half a year after Victorian, 3/4 year after Tyrion.

So after Victorian's been in Slaver's Bay for half a year, that's about when Marwyn will show up (if his ship survives.)

That is a very nice page I don't keep a detailed timeline in my head, but in the back of my mind I have counted up about 3 or 4 years for the story so far.

I have wondered why George compressed all the action, so far, into such a short time span?

I know it's George's prerogative.

History like the Roman civil wars from Julius Caesar's death to Octavian's final control took about 20 years.

The War(s) of the Roses took about 66 years, not that I would want George to spread things out that much!

Still seems like a hell of a lot takes place in a short amount of time... and we only have fairly slow foot, horse and ship travel as the milieu.

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That makes no sense. Euron is a far better fit for that Moqorro vision than Brynden Rivers, who has no connotation to a Kraken.

Only if you consider the tendrils a kracken! If you consider them in the context of weirwood roots it makes far more I sense.

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Finally, the mummer's dragon. All signs seem to point to this new Aegon. I have two reasons: 1. Why in the world would they ONLY save Aegon from the Red Keep and not his sister? If Rhaegar believed both children to be necessary to fulfill the prophecy, and he did, then you would think both would have been saved. Even if Varys didn't know about it, you'd STILL think he would have saved both children instead of just the one.

The answers here are very straightforward. They didn't save Rhaenys because there was no way to do so without it being known. If you save them both, Robert etc know they are alive, and thus there is danger. If you save Aegon and not Rhaenys, then no one is likely to suspect Aegon is still alive. It's pretty easy to get one baby to pass for another (especially with a smashed head).

Also, Varys' motivations to save Aegon may have nothing to do with Rhaegar. And as another posted pointed out, sadly Rhaenys is not nearly as important as Aegon. Aegon is/was the real heir.

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Only if you consider the tendrils a kracken! If you consider them in the context of weirwood roots it makes far more I sense.

Since there are exactly 10 "tendrils/tentacles", and squids/krakens have 10 tentacles, it's extremely likely we're talking about Euron.

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Linda, thanks to you and Ran for keeping all of this straight. I don't want to add any confusion by arguing any points that may be debatable, in this thread. However, in the "Timeline" for Westeros, Robert's Rebellion, the first sentence says that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna from King's Landing. I would like to know if there is a citation for that, as I have scoured the five volumes and found absolutely nothing that even hints at where Lyanna was disappeared from. Thanks, again.

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I noticed that the prophecy section on the citadel does not include patchface's ramblings. Is it possible someone could update it with an analysis of his potential prophecies?

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First of all I'd like to say that you guys do the most amazing job with the Citadel. Then I'd like to thank you for the effort.

Not sure if it's relevant for the updating or not, but I have worked on a Frey genealogy tree, marking off those that are dead (or presumed dead) and those that are still alive, just so that I could actually follow on it, and I'd be happy to share it with you, if it interests you.

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First of all I'd like to say that you guys do the most amazing job with the Citadel. Then I'd like to thank you for the effort.

Not sure if it's relevant for the updating or not, but I have worked on a Frey genealogy tree, marking off those that are dead (or presumed dead) and those that are still alive, just so that I could actually follow on it, and I'd be happy to share it with you, if it interests you.

Heck, I would be interested in seeing that! Could you please PM it to me? It would be much appreciated and I would not repost it without your permission. Thanks so much! :bowdown:

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Heck, I would be interested in seeing that! Could you please PM it to me? It would be much appreciated and I would not repost it without your permission. Thanks so much! :bowdown:

I would certainly not mind PM it to you... Only being a totally non-internet person I have really no idea of how to do that... :blushing:

I tried using the options on the top corner of the page but kept getting a message that I'm not allowed to view members's profiles or sth like that.

I apologize if this is going a litttle out of topic... But if you could help me figure out a way to go around that, I'd be more than glad to share the file... :thumbsup:

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I would certainly not mind PM it to you... Only being a totally non-internet person I have really no idea of how to do that... :blushing:

I tried using the options on the top corner of the page but kept getting a message that I'm not allowed to view members's profiles or sth like that.

I apologize if this is going a litttle out of topic... But if you could help me figure out a way to go around that, I'd be more than glad to share the file... :thumbsup:

Odd, I get the same error message. Could a mod please help us out with the PM system? If not, I'll just end up giving you my e-mail address.

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Odd, I get the same error message. Could a mod please help us out with the PM system? If not, I'll just end up giving you my e-mail address.

I've just realized there's a thread somewhere that deals with this error message issue... From what I understand it seems that is has to do with crashing servers or sth like that...

I've also checked on the possibility of posting links here and it seems that's fine, so I've decided to upload the file and add the link here. I hope it's alright...

Just some words on the color codes I've used on the Frey tree: white is for the living male Freys; pink is for the living female Freys; yellow is for those Freys that are either septons, maesters or promissed to the Faith or in the Citadel and grey is for my current fave kind of Frey, dead ones...

http://www.filesonic...file/1659840834

Let me know if the link works fine!

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I've just realized there's a thread somewhere that deals with this error message issue... From what I understand it seems that is has to do with crashing servers or sth like that...

I've also checked on the possibility of posting links here and it seems that's fine, so I've decided to upload the file and add the link here. I hope it's alright...

Just some words on the color codes I've used on the Frey tree: white is for the living male Freys; pink is for the living female Freys; yellow is for those Freys that are either septons, maesters or promissed to the Faith or in the Citadel and grey is for my current fave kind of Frey, dead ones...

http://www.filesonic...file/1659840834

Let me know if the link works fine!

The link works fine! :shocked: :stunned: This is amazing.

What are the differences between the four slides and what do the different colors mean (white, yellow, grey, red)? Also, is this updated according to aDwD or just aFfC?

Further, I'm forgetting if there is any mention of the Freys in the novellas. Granted, the genealogy is already severely complex, I can't imagine trying to add in anything that came before Walder...but it would be interesting to see.

How did you go about making this? Did you keep track while reading or did you look up each individual Frey and their family members online? I guess this would be easier if there was a massive list of alive, dead, maybe dead, and unknown characters. Somehow, I doubt that there is.

I know that there are other family trees out there, but to my knowledge there are none that track the fates of the characters included in them. Have you though about doing this type of thing for the other large houses (Targaryen, Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully, Tyrell, Martell, Bolton, Manderly, Hightower, Umber, Karstark, Royce, Dayne, Yronwood, Harlaw, Redwyne, Fossoway, Mallister, Bracken, and Blackwood). Thats only 1...2...3...25 houses :blush:

Hopefully those questions didn't completely overwhelm you.

I would encourage others to use the link to access Tati's file. I have seen other family trees, but this one is unique and well done.

Edited by Garlan the Gallant

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The link works fine! :shocked: :stunned: This is amazing.

What are the differences between the four slides and what do the different colors mean (white, yellow, grey, red)? Also, is this updated according to aDwD or just aFfC?

Further, I'm forgetting if there is any mention of the Freys in the novellas. Granted, the genealogy is already severely complex, I can't imagine trying to add in anything that came before Walder...but it would be interesting to see.

How did you go about making this? Did you keep track while reading or did you look up each individual Frey and their family members online? I guess this would be easier if there was a massive list of alive, dead, maybe dead, and unknown characters. Somehow, I doubt that there is.

I know that there are other family trees out there, but to my knowledge there are none that track the fates of the characters included in them. Have you though about doing this type of thing for the other large houses (Targaryen, Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully, Tyrell, Martell, Bolton, Manderly, Hightower, Umber, Karstark, Royce, Dayne, Yronwood, Harlaw, Redwyne, Fossoway, Mallister, Bracken, and Blackwood). Thats only 1...2...3...25 houses :blush:

Hopefully those questions didn't completely overwhelm you.

I would encourage others to use the link to access Tati's file. I have seen other family trees, but this one is unique and well done.

Oh, my! :blushing: Thank you for your words... I mean, it's really quite flattering. And yes, anyone that wants to have a look at it do feel free. And if anyone wants to post it anywhere, feel free as well... :thumbsup:

You know, this tree was actually just something I did while reading aDwD, thou I've kept all the other books' appendices at hand to make sure I didn't forget anyone. I guess it's one of those Historian things... I feel like I get a much better hang of what I'm reading if I can keep confronting the words with maps, and genealogy trees and timelines, which is one of the reasons why I appreciate the Citadel (and the Wiki) so much. It's one of the best tools ever... works like a companion to my reading; therefore, hats off to everyone that puts time and effort into keeping it all updated.

As for the colors in the tree; white is for living male Freys; pink is for living female Freys; yellow is for those Freys that are either septons / sworn to the Faith or Maesters / at the Citadel forging their chains and grey is for my current favorite kind of Frey: dead ones. :D

The first slide includes only Walder Frey's sons & daughters from all marriages; the second one adds another generation (sons and daughters & grandsons and granddaughters); the third one, yet another generation (sons and daughters; grandsons and granddaughters & great-grandsons and great-granddaughters) and the fourth and final one takes into consideration the forth generation as well... Thou I guess there are only two or three great-great-granddaughters going round...

I've never read any of the novellas, so none of their info is actually contemplated there; basically it's what the appendices and stories tell us.

As for the other families, I suppose I'd have some fun doing them, but it just never occurred to me, as they are not as numerous as the Freys… who know, thou? Next time my PhD dissertation is getting the best off of me, I might take a break and plunge back into my aSoIaF's appendices… LOL

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Now that the new book has been devoured comes the next phase for myself and Ran: updating the Citadel. This time around, we thought we'd solicit a little bit of input to make sure we didn't miss any crucial updates.

Im sure you already have this, but in The Citidel section 6.2.8- Who is Coldhands?, you say that the one knock against Coldhands being Benjen is that Bran would have recognized him. However in the first Bran POV chapter of aDwD (not sure of the page, read an ebook sorry), there is a passage that says 'Meera Reed rose, her frog spear in her hand, a chunk of smoking meat still impaled upson its tines. "show us your face."' This informs us that Coldhands has kept his face hidden and Bran wouldn't recognize him.

Hope this helps!

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When are we going to get the first updates on the FAQ? I'm looking forward to reading them!! :D

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according to the prophecy, a lion/lannister is not to be trusted.

GRRM has also stated that the three heads of the dragon need not be a Targaryen. Which is further evidence, to me anyway, that Aegon is not a true Targaryen. My bet is still on Tyrion.

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Identifying and interpreting these prophesies is such a tough job!

What about Val's warning about Greyscale?

"The grey death sleeps, only to wake again"

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I was also thinking about Beware the perfumed seneschal part of Quaithe's prophesy in aDwD.

Any theories on who could this be? (Other than the obvious seneschal in Meereen)

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