[ADwD Spoilers] Ashara Dayne

[Eddard Stark]

So there was a bit more information about Ashara Dayne in one of Barristan's POVs:

"Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan

Selmy would have made a different choice. Not the queen,

who was not present. Nor Elia of Dorne, though she was

good and gentle; had she been chosen, much war and woe

might have been avoided. His choice would have been a

young maiden not long at court, one of Elia’s companions

… though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish

princess was a kitchen drab.

Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall

Ashara’s smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to

close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling

about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes.

Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen

looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara’s

daughter…

But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady

had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief

for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had

dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never

knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she?

He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No

good could have come from telling her his feelings. No

good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar

and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she

have looked to me instead of Stark?

He would never know. But of all his failures, none haunted

Barristan Selmy so much as that."

Interesting to note that she had a daughter...not a son. But this certainly seems to cement the idea that Ned and Ashara were lovers, however briefly.

[Ran]

As noted elsewhere... maybe it doesn't. Barristan says "Stark", not "Eddard Stark". The theory has been put forward that there's hints that Brandon, not Ned, was the one who had the Harrenhal fling.

[Ferrous]

As noted elsewhere... maybe it doesn't. Barristan says "Stark", not "Eddard Stark". The theory has been put forward that there's hints that Brandon, not Ned, was the one who had the Harrenhal fling.

Or it could be Barristan mentally seperating Ned into 'Eddard Stark', the honorable King's Hand and 'Stark' who dishonoured Ashara.

Though there isn't enough evidence yet to argue eitherway.

[Coals]

The more I think on it, the more I think the "Stark" he refers to is Brandon. Ned's honor is everything, and Cat comments that the only time she dared ask Ned about Jon/Ashara he got angry. This would have been early in his marriage, a marriage to effectively his brothers widow, and now she is accusing him of "shaming" her with the woman he loved, which ironically is something his brother did when he was meant to be true to Cat? I can see the in for the anger.

[maize]

Personally I think Brandon fits the bill.

From the Theon chapters, we are told Brandon Stark was a pretty wild person, sleeping with Lady Whent, taking whatever he wanted, etc etc. Selmy seems to hold no animosity whatsoever towards Eddard, but what may have happened between Brandon and Ashara doesn't seem surprising given Brandons personality.

[Yarl Snow]

"and perhaps for the man who had

dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never

knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her."

This sounds to me like she and Ser Barristan had a fling, but he would/could not stay with her because of his vows, and he spurned her. I took this somewhat to mean that she had a child by him, and killed herself out of grief when their child was stillborn. Though it is vaguely enough written to be any man present at Harrenhal.

He seems to think of this as biggest failure, which is strange. Unhorsing Rhaegar might have prevented the war, true, but this seems to be more about Ashara than about Rhaegar.

[Coals]

"and perhaps for the man who had

dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never

knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her."

This sounds to me like she and Ser Barristan had a fling, but he would/could not stay with her because of his vows, and he spurned her. I took this somewhat to mean that she had a child by him, and killed herself out of grief when their child was stillborn. Though it is vaguely enough written to be any man present at Harrenhal.

He seems to think of this as biggest failure, which is strange. Unhorsing Rhaegar might have prevented the war, true, but this seems to be more about Ashara than about Rhaegar.

There is that, but I can't imagine how Barristan would have been in the situation to "dishonor" her, without first having told her he loved her himself. It doesnt seem in his character not to have told her, and he specifies knowing rather than believing.

[cteresa]

Brandon. It fits perfectly everything... It

[MinDonner]

Barristan breaking his vows is even less likely than Ned besmirching his honour.

[Ser Pistus]

Okay, so Brandon Stark is the father of Ashara Dayne's child. Great.

The only thing is, nobody ever cared about Ashara Dayne's child. The question is, who is Jon Snow? If he is Brandon and Ashara's son, why is it so secret? What happened at the Tower of Joy? What is the "promise me, Ned"?

[MinDonner]

No no. We only care about Ashara Dayne's child in as far as there is more evidence against it NOT being Jon. The N+A=J faction was small but vocal and this is another nail in their coffin. :devil:

[Alexia]

I have to say, I think it would be hilarious if Jon turned out to be Brandon's son by Ashara Dayne. :lol:

[Ygritte]

My money's on Brandon. IMO Ned got angry when Catelyn mentioned her because he, like Barristan, had an unrequited thing for Ashara and wanted to protect her reputation.

ETA: And if Ashara's kid was conceived at Harrenhal, it would be too old to be Jon.

[MinDonner]

Does anyone have the story of the KotLT at hand? What did Meera say about the purple-eyed chick and which wolf she was ogling?

[cteresa]

I have to say, I think it would be hilarious if Jon turned out to be Brandon's son by Ashara Dayne. :lol:

What would be truly hilarious was if Jon turned turned out to be Brandon and Ashara´s LEGITIMATE son :evil

(Just kidding seriously. Wrong age, promise me Ned, and no, not with Ned Stark)

[Ygritte]

Does anyone have the story of the KotLT at hand? What did Meera say about the purple-eyed chick and which wolf she was ogling?

The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf … but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench.

Doesn't say which one she preferred, just that Brandon was the one to approach her first and she danced with Ned as a result.

[Ser Pistus]

Does anyone have the story of the KotLT at hand? What did Meera say about the purple-eyed chick and which wolf she was ogling?

The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with (...) the quiet wolf... but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench.

[MinDonner]

Heh. White sword = Barristan?

[Ran]

She wasn't ogling any of them in the story. The wild wolf went to her to ask her to dance with the quiet wolf, who was too shy to ask himself.

Ashara danced with lots of people -- Oberyn, Jon Connington (huh), a white sword (might be her brother... but could have been Barristan, I now realize -- awwwww, unrequited love is so damned romantic) are mentioned, with the quiet wolf being the last.

So, Ned sounds like he was definitely into her. And Ashara was a beauty who attracted a lot of attention. And Brandon was a douche.

[Gytha Ogg]

I like the Brandon-is-an-arsehole development. We knew Brandon was wild and impetuous, but you always got the impression he still had that Stark goodness to him and Ned always seemed to think well of him. But apparently he was a bit of a tosser.