New maps for the Wiki

[Werthead]

For the GoTWiki I have prepared a number of new maps using the new Free Cities information. These maps should be of value to the WoIaF as well, so grab 'em if you like :)

Westeros and Essos (unmarked)

The Free Cities

Essos (unmarked)

[The Pale Griffin]

Thanks Werthead!

[mor2]

Does anyone knows who is the Arthur of this king landing map ?

[mor2]

How about Other-in-Law maps, does anyone know away to contact him? since as he doesnt seem to be active on the forum any more and his deviant account was closed.

any other maps you know of, that we can use, at least until we can produce some of our own?

also not maps, but on topic of do you know... does anyone know who is the Arthur of those two images: Lhazar.jpg , Astapor.jpg ??

[Valyrian Doom]

Does anyone knows who is the Arthur of this king landing map ?

I don't know who illustrated those maps, but thanks for posting that KL one. That map will help me greatly for my game, though it also makes the job of recreating Kings Landing vastly more complicated. I know I wont be able to fit such densely fitted buildings in the space allowed.

[Ran]

The KL map looks to be from the KL-set adventure Green Ronin produced. I don't know who the artist is, off the top of my head. The Meereen image is by artist Martina Pilcerova, who's done a number of pieces of art for Fantasy Flight Games.

[mor2]

thanks for the info, too bad that the map is 'Green Ronin' product, I doubt that they would allow us to use it.

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btw, if anyone here has some skill with Cartograph and want to help with maps on the wiki updating old, creating new. anything from simply adding a path of daenerys travels on ESSos from pentose to meereen or adding regional/political spheres to detailed topographic map. it's will be much appreciated.

I know scafloc is working on the map project and you can also check out for reference Werthead map in OP, map-of-the-world thread and the Maps we use on the wiki.

[mor2]

I want to replace all our maps with the russian map made by Narwen westeros-map(warning ~2MB). what it means? not much at first, most of the current regional map like The_North.png will look the same, only have higher res. (Later I am planing to add an option to see a topographical layer as well), with the use of layers i would be easier to update the map locations or create maps for specific events.

any thoughts or suggestions?

[Ran]

I don't personally care for the use of maps which bring in the TV show's map -- it may be based on George's map, but it's not clear that every single detail is derived from George's map. So that huge swathe that extends beyond Slaver's Bay would need to be cut off, IMO. It's very nice for those areas which do come from the published maps, though.

I see it also places the Summer Isles and so on, which is also quite speculative and isn't derived from any map that I'm aware of...

I think it'd have to be looked at closely to make sure that only those parts that conform with the published maps exist there.

[mor2]

That map is based on the novel, or at least as closely as we can possibly get without violating copyright, the speculative parts are the slaver bay alignment and size/shape of summer islands, ibben and everything east of slaver bay map.

Still it's the most complete map out there (and I looked all over the net, cartography guild included, nothing in the past few month) and most of all it's good. It will provide us the full westeros/free cities map which we really lack and the topographical data will allow to create a really nice "vector maps" for various event (for example the great ranging, the wildling attacks etc - my inspiration War_of_the_Usurper.png).

back to summer islands and ibben their size and shape is speculative but their location is not so much, I was thinking to resolve this with something like that USA_orthographic.svg to allow new people to get the feel and the layout of the world (the specific shape is less important).

if anyone has any alternatives, reservation, suggestion(for example what info to include or even a good font /color scheme for the various layers) it would be appreciated so we can iron it out before/if i start the project.

[Scafloc]

I have no problem with this.

One note: a number of cities and castles use the current maps. Will the marker be at the same place? I hope that we do not have to check all of them and change the coordinates of the markers.

[Ran]

Right. Like I said, everything east of Slaver's Bay isn't "based on the novel", it's based on the map that appeared on the TV show. That stuff should be removed rather than being presented as based on canonical maps. Putting up a map that's not based on canonical sources would be about the same as just drawing anything you wanted and presenting that as a canonical map, IMO.

Basically, if it's been published in the books (see the official Bantam maps), then I think it's fine to present this as a representation of the canonical maps. But the depiction of Essos east of Slaver's Bay and Ib is purely from the TV show, and the presentation of the Summer Isles is absolutely speculative with no reference to any map at all.

So, for my part, I'd cut that stuff out. Just leave it a big blank on the image, and leave details only for what corresponds to what's been published to date in the books. I agree it's very nice, but it's an attempt to create stuff that doesn't exist in an official way.

[mor2]

@Scafloc, you are right this would be a problem, initially I plan to cut the same chunks and keep the ratio so it would be the same but eventually It would require to redo them all. but i get ahead of myself with all that talk of what I want todo, first I'll need to start by adding all the locations in english, see if it works and continue from there, btw any suggestions for a good font? (preferably free and popular e.g. something that everyone have on their PC's so later they could easily contribute if they wanted to)

@Ran, If you refer to the Tv show first season intro then no, it's just a better(IMO) interpretation of the information provided in the novel than this Citadel/Gallery/Entry/782/, in either case as you said we cannot really place none canonical info. Btw regarding the official map, I have manged to upload them all to the Wiki Portal:Geography, too bad that fair use only allow us to use them in this way and not inside the rest of the articles :(

[Werthead]

Canonically, only the map of Westeros and extending east to Volantis is reliable. The spatial relationship between the Free Cities and Slaver's Bay is speculative: we know Meereen is 1,650 miles from Volantis, give or take a few miles, but we don't know if that's due east, north-east or south-east. Until we know that for sure, we cannot even combine the Slaver's Bay and Free Cities/Westeros maps, attractive as that is. Slaver's Bay would for now have to remain on a separate map.

Ran, do you know if the world book will contain a combined map of Westeros/Free Cities/Slaver's Bay, clarifying the relationship between them?

[Ran]

There should be a world map in there, at least according to what the plans were at the time.

[Ran]

A possible solution comes to mind: overlay diagonal lines or dots or what have to mark out those areas which are not canonical. You could even do two kinds -- one to mark the areas of Essos east of Slaver's Bay based on the map from the TV series open, and one to mark the purely speculative bits (such as the Summer Isles, or the area where they link up the Valyrian road from Volantis to the map of Valyria and Slaver's Bay).

That way you could have the whole thing, but people can see what's genuinely canonical and what's at best semi-canonical and what's entirely speculative.

[Werthead]

The map from the TV show open doesn't even show Slaver's Bay, let alone points further east, so I'm not sure where that stuff is coming from. The only thing the TV map shows is a bit more of the north coast of Essos stretching away north-east of Vaes Dothrak, and problems with working out distances on the distorted map makes that of limited value.

[Ran]

The map image does seem to show the very northern shore of Slaver's Bay, plus a bunch of the stuff to the north of it that isn't covered in the official maps. It's true that anything that goes beyond that area of the map -- which is, I guess, "semi-canonical" since it was based on George's maps, but not necessarily directly approved by him (hence the presence of a continent above Essos and the land on the other side of the Sunset Sea) -- is purely speculative. In fact, looking at it, it seems like it's based a bit on your old speculative world map, Wert.

[Werthead]

You mean that bit of water right down in far bottom-right just above the astrolabe ring? That doesn't seem to be the top of Slaver's Bay, just a bit of the coast east of Volantis.

If you look very carefully at Essos in that image, it does look like GRRM's own map is underlaid beneath (at least I assume that's what it is, the hand-drawn map given to HBO by him). You can see the Rhoyne, the Valyrian roads and landmarks that appeared on the 'proper' ADWD Free Cities map, as well as the Forest of Qohor. In fact, immediately to the east of the Forest of Qohor you can see them starting to use randomised copy-and-paste material again: the Mander and Cockleswent appear to be in there again, and Gods Eye a bit further right. That indicates that all of that area is unreliable.

[LuisDantas]

Btw regarding the official map, I have manged to upload them all to the Wiki Portal:Geography, too bad that fair use only allow us to use them in this way and not inside the rest of the articles :(

My copy of A Dance with Dragons (ISBN 978-0-00-224739-9, Harper Collins) has exactly three maps: "Beyond the Wall", "The Free Cities" and "Valyria".

Unless I am mistaken, the last two aren't yet available in that Portal. Would you like me to rectify that?

Never mind. They are there after all. I am left wondering how come the ADWD maps for the North and the South exist, but are nowhere to be found in my copy.