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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Daenerys 7

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I think these Dany chapters make perfect sense. She said she had to stay in Meereen to learn how to be a queen -- and how does one learn something that no one can teach? By making mistakes, paying for them, and refusing to make the same mistakes again.

Also, bear in mind that she's what, 14 years old? She has growing up to do, idealism to lose, all that. Having Dany stay in Meereen but do a great job of being queen would've been pointless to the plot; if she was already good at being queen she wouldn't have needed the seasoning before heading to Westeros.

But as I commented in the prior chapter, I wish Martin had stuck with his plan to fast-forward five years into the future-- then we wouldn't have to slog through chapter after chapter of slow, painful angst. It would've been much more awesome if, say, we dropped in five years from now, just as Dany was committing some (apparent) atrocity, maybe deliberately sinking a boat full of sick refugees on her way to Westeros. We'd be all like "holy shit, what happened to Dany! She's evil now!". But then over time, Martin could have teased out the details and the back story, how she hated to have to do it, but that she learned back in Meereen that she can't save everyone, and sometimes the greater mercy is a quick death if people can't be saved-- the sick would have just died eventually and would have made all your people ill in the bargain if you let them hang around. Blah blah blah, something like that.

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The Dance With Dragons will be Targaryen against Targaryen for the Iron Throne at this rate. If Dany ever gets to Westeros, that is.

That's what the original Dance of Dragons war was. Targaryen Prince against Targaryen Princess. It wouldn't surprise me if History repeated itself here.

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I'm loving the Jaime and Cersei are Aerys's kids theory and that Tywin hated Tyrion because his brood was a malformed mess. Tywin did say that Tyrion "was not his son" though, and that's why I'm a little skeptical about it.

Does anyone else feel like Daario is gonna be Dany's betrayal for gold? Gold tooth anyone?

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I’ll add my pet theory that I've had since AFFC…everyone seems to think that Tyrion is the lovechild of Aerys and Joanna, however, I think it is Jamie and Cersei. I think this hammered at Tywin’s pride…seeing his perfect twins and knowing that they were sired by the mad king whilst his own brood turned out to be a stunted dwarf and his resentment at Tyrion stems from that rather than from Tyrion being born of an affair between his wife and the king. He certainly would have arranged for an accident to happen to Tyrion after Aerys died if he was the result of Aerys and Joanna. But to admit Jamie and Cersei were not his would only further disgrace his honor.

Here’s where I first started thinking this:

From AFFC, Jamie 5

“She(Genna Lannister) smiled. “How could I not love him, after that? That is not to say that I approved of all he did, or much enjoyed the company of the man that he became . . . but every little girl needs a big brother to protect her. Tywin was big even when he was little.” She gave a sigh. “Who will protect us now?”

Jaime kissed her cheek. “He left a son.”

“Aye, he did. That is what I fear the most, in truth.”

That was a queer remark. “Why should you fear?”

“Jaime,” she said, tugging on his ear, “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there’s some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you. I said so once to your father’s face, and he would not speak to me for half a year.”

And from ADWD, Daenerys 7

“When she and Twyin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the…the liberties your father took during the bedding.”

Is this too crazy of a theory?

Wow, I really like this theory. It gives new meaning to a lot of the things that Jaime and Cersei have done and said. The one thing that came to mind when I read this was this quote towards the end of ASOS (pg. 1004 in paperback):

"'...I want to be your wife, we belong to each other, but it can never be, Jaime. We are brother and sister.'

'The Targaryens...'

'We are not Targaryens!'"

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I've seriously started to hate the Dragonslut throughout this chapter and her last one.

Seriously? Daario? I can't name a single good quality about him. That's like running off with a wife-beater wearing, nascar loving, rebel flag toting, pit stained piece of stereotypical trailer trash.

She's also making absolutely terrible decisions. She was supposed to use Meereen as a testing ground, to learn the ins and outs of ruling before she journeyed to Westeros to claim her throne. And she's seriously going to marry this Ghiscari chap for the sake of Meereen, and totally screw herself over when it comes to Westeros? She does not know how politics are played there. I mean, she goes and brushes Quentyn off (disappointingly plain as he is) and then has the gall to tell him that someday she's going to need his support to conquer Westeros. Look, that kind of royal snub has been MORE than enough grounds in the past to withdraw one's support.

And her arrogance! "I'm the dragon therefore I can't get sick." And what happens if you're wrong, you impulsive fool? What happens if you get the bloody flux and die? Is that going to save your precious children (whom you eventually lock the gates on anyways)?

I didn't want her on the iron throne before I started reading this book, and I would throw the book at the wall if it happens now.

At the very least, though, you can't claim she's a Mary Sue anymore.

...which is also something GRRM managed to fix with Jon, in a less revolting manner.

The dragonslut? Wow.

Dany's made some pretty god awful decisions and is behaving immaturely, no disputing you there.

However, she's only had sex with TWO people EVER. Drogo (her husband -- which started out as rape anyway) and then Daario. How the fuck does this earn one the label of a slut. It's understandable that you don't like her in this book, which is fine, but calling her a slut is blatantly sexist and unjustified. What about other male characters who have behaved abhorrently and actually HAVE gotten around (ie: Tyrion, Theon, Robert). Yet you don't go around calling them sluts. Please keep your sexism in check.

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Dany's chapters are dragging for me as they did in the first half of A Clash of Kings.

I feel like all we really see her do is:

stand out on her balcony

look at her city

nibble on food

wade in pools

put on tokars

hold court and look bored

I mean with Daario at least she had some good sex.

She's not thinking for herself much.

Her dragons are wasting and forgotten under the city (or out killing random children).

She's a terrible mother to the dragons and I fear she'll be cast aside for this new kid who has shitfits over losing a cevasse game. It's really disheartening.

I get that she has to grow and learn, but I'm starting to dread her chapters.

I have doubts that Tyrion and Jorah will even make it to Mereen (they would really liven things up). I'm feeling a bit insecure in GRRM's hands right now. I just keep telling myself that it will all bear fruit in the end.

Perhaps this was part of his "Mereneese Knot."

Perhaps it's just lulling right now.

I feel like it's lulled with Dany's character arc from chapter one.

But, we will see. I'm patient. I'm hanging in there. I must. But, I'm very disappointed in Dany now. She's being written in a very "bratty" light with a marked amount of vapidity. I'm praying that changes soon. The Mother of Dragons is long gone in my eyes. I want her back.

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I loved this chapter. I thought Dany handled the Quentyn situation extremely well, though it would be great if she hadn't actually married Hizdar!

Also I don't begrudge Dany her love affair (that was actually kind of hot to read) but Daario is getting too bold.

I (hopehope) suspect both of them will die before the end of the book.

Is it wrong to guess Barristan alluded to himself when telling Dany of her mother's love interest?

This, is so, incredibly fucked up, by the way.

So he's in love with Queen Rhaenys, and then he spends the rest of his career standing by and letting her husband beat and rape her???

I thought Barristan was far too willing to let the sins of kings be, but now - OH MY GOD. This is actually SCARY because it makes me think that if Daenerys started feeding small children to Viseryon, he wouldn't bat an eye.

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So he's in love with Queen Rhaenys, and then he spends the rest of his career standing by and letting her husband beat and rape her???

Woh. I know I'm replying to myself but something just struck me like a bolt of lightning while in the shower.

If Barristan and Queen Rhaenys were in love, MAYBE BARRISTAN SELMY IS DANY'S FATHER (and perhaps Rhaegar's as well??????)

BLOOD WILL TELL, after all. Viserys may be Aerys only true born child.

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I love all the theories being proposed in this chapter! My favorites at Missendai = Child of the Forest and A+J=J&C, both of which could easily be true.

It's a good thing Dany's chapters are giving rise to such discussions, because like most of you, I'm getting sick of reading about her standing at the balcony and putting off her duty. I haven't trusted Daario from the get-go, I mean come we've known since we met him that he was a sellsword (didn't he deceive and kill his two fellow commanders to win her loyalty?!).

And poor Quentyn! I'm hoping we get a chapter of him soon, now that someone has FINALLY reached Dany we'll get to see her from another person's perspective. I have a feeling we won't like what we see.

Tyrion and Jorah need to hurry up and get to Meereen.

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Is it possible that Drogon left when Euron had the horn blown at the kingsmoot?

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Is it possible that Drogon left when Euron had the horn blown at the kingsmoot?

That's an interesting theory. Could he have heard that so far away? They are supernatural creatures, so I believe that if that horn is real (which I think it isn't) they must be bound to it somehow.

But I never bought that horn to be the real thing, either Euron used it to impress the ironborn and win the kingsmoot, or someone deceived him.

I just think that Drongon disappeared because he saw what happened to Rhaegal and Viseryon and didn't want to be chained up. He looks to be the stronger and the smartest.

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So he's in love with Queen Rhaenys, and then he spends the rest of his career standing by and letting her husband beat and rape her???

Wait what?

I thought Barristan said the knight she was in love with stopped being a knight and joined the faith.

Barristan is not a Septon and seems very much still a knight to me.

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My theory all along has been that King Aerys took Tywin's wife and that is why Tywin stopped being Hand of the King. His wife died giving birth to Tyrion...a Targaryen and head of the dragon...obsessed with dragons his whole life.

It is known.

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Wait what?

I thought Barristan said the knight she was in love with stopped being a knight and joined the faith.

Barristan is not a Septon and seems very much still a knight to me.

You are correct. It's not Barristan. I don't know who it is but it might not be important. The important part was The Mad King's lust for Tywin's wife/cousin.

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The Dany Chapters have done nothing for me so far other than start to hate Dany. I guess she is just 17ish and is not acting like a 17-year old girl. She's not a ruler now but she seemed like one back in Storm of Swords. What happened to her?

You can tell that GRRM had a hell of a time dragging out timelines in order for certain characters to catch up. The chapters on the people still in Westeros are amazing while the chapters on those across the Narrow Sea have been rather ho-hum so far. They have done nothing but wander around and kill time.

One question. If Aegon was still alive and obviously Illyrio and Vary knew it all along, why did they worry so much about Viserys and Dany? Why would they not have treated Dany and Viserys the same as they did Aegon? I know any answer given to me is just theory unless it explains it later on in the book. I am not liking the Targaryen story right now.

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I think CryFenril hit the nail on the head in the Dany 4 thread. Danaerys is trying the "do no harm" approach to rulership. She is trying to spare everyone and everything. Which is obviously blowing up on her.

To me, Daario is an escapist fantasy. She's been hooking up with him, avoiding holding court, and assuming that her new husband will take care of everything. That speaks to me of someone who is being drowned in indecisiveness and is desperate for an out. Remember the fighting pits? She's all but given in on it, and just wants her husband to be the one to open them. She's cracking under the responsibility and using sex as an anodyne. At this point the only thing keeping her in Meereen is fear for what will happen to it if she leaves. She's all but put Westeros out of her mind.

At least so far, this is the story of Dany losing her idealism. She has to "kill the girl" in her and let the woman be born. At some point, she's going to realize that every good deed has consequences, and that the price you pay for not wanting blood on your hands is far more blood on someone else's. The smallfolk suffer and die either way.

Jon is going through the same thing. They need scars to harden them, make them more ruthless, more cynical.

Aegon, meanwhile, has not gone through this. Yet. He's still young, fierce and idealistic-- shielded from the world by Lord Connington. I suspect he'll get eaten alive in Westeros unless he gets some scars and learns some bitter lessons of his own.

Totally agree with all of this! Hopefully Dany will learn from the mistakes she makes and will become a better ruler for it. One thing that still has me worried is Tyrion's observation of Aegon being very Joffrey-esque after losing the Cyvasse game. To me that is a huge red flag for those wanting Aegon ruling Westeros vs. Dany...

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Correct me if i'm wrong but does dany love Daario just becuase he's hot? if she doesn't listen to Quentyn because he's so-so looking, she's gonna laugh Tyrion out of court. Darrio seems like a douchebag anyway. Also I'm kinda getting feeling she won't land in westeros until next book. even though she hasa golden fucking opprotunity to pack her bags and do what she set out to do all along.

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Totally agree with all of this! Hopefully Dany will learn from the mistakes she makes and will become a better ruler for it. One thing that still has me worried is Tyrion's observation of Aegon being very Joffrey-esque after losing the Cyvasse game. To me that is a huge red flag for those wanting Aegon ruling Westeros vs. Dany...

I woulndt fear becaue of it. Dany had more than one Joffrey-esque outbburst, and seeing how she rules now I think anyone would be much better than her.

Not to mention at least Young Griff is listening to the advices of others.

I think the fact that Dany refused Quentyn could cost Dorne for her, especielly since we know YG is heading there. And since there is an another Targ who is willing to go and get the Iron Throne who is willing to serve their justice they will probably support him.

I actually find the Dany chapters really good. I always felt that Dany despite having a kind of gentle heart is absoulutly unfit to rule, and these chapters are proving my suspicion. I dont find her different than she was in ASoS either. She was no ruler in ASoS she was a conquerer, so saying she suddenly decreased in ability is not true. Winning in the battlefield, or being able to govern at court, managing a cities economy, handling diplomacy is two totally different thing. Just ask Robert Baratheon.

About the Tyrion is a Targ theory. I like the idea that it is Jaime and Cersei the ones who are Aerys children as well. It would explain Cersei's madness, her fascination with wildfire, not to mention Gemma herself said that Tyrion is the son of Tywin. And i agree, if Tyrion would really be the son of Aerys, Tywin would have have him murdered. I dont see why would he left him alive if it is true.

At first I thought that Ser Barristan was the one who loved Dany's mother, but when he said the said knight became pious, I realised he is not. But if among the current Faith in KL, there is someone who loved the Targ queen dearly, he may wont be much help for Cersei. (So far a Sandsnake and a possible Tarqueen lover, Cersei's hope of survival is getting thinner and thinner, and I love that :))

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So why if Illyrio and Varys knew and protected Aegon, they did not mention it to Viserys or Dany? Doesn't Aegon's survival dwarf the importance of Dany and Viserys? It doesn't make sense. Hopefully it is explained better in the book or future books.

And I still think that the way Tyrion "figured" out that Young Griff was Aegon was kind of weak. It really did remind me of Scooby Doo when they just randomly pull the mask off someone and say, "It was old man Withers all along!" I want to love this but I just don't.

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So Dany likes the bad boys eh?

Daario has to be one of her betrayers, no? I would think that he betrays her for gold not love. I am wondering if the Storm Crows are about to switch sides now that she is married to Hizdar.

As an asside, were I Daario, I'd kill someone and make it look like the Harpys did it and thereby release Dany from her vows to Hizdar... seems easy enough to me.

So who could the others be? I'm thinking Jorah or Hizdar. Jorah truly loves her and I expect his betrayal will be inadvertent or forced on him somehow. He and Tyrion will get to Mereen I expect, unless the ship really isn't the Perfumed Seneshal of the prophecy.

Also, where the hell is Varys while all this is going on? Could he really be someone else right now? Reznak Mo Reznak for instance?

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