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[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 9


Xray the Enforcer

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So far I like how Jon is leading the Night's Watch, even if he gets much opposition by the more conservative members. It's quite refreshing in contrast to Dany's chapters.

But whatever he does, he just doesn't get a calm minute now with Queen Selyse and that annoying Florent guy around. I hope they move on to their bloody Nightfort soon, but somehow I have some doubts. I would like to know what exactly Cotter Pyke wrote in all his letters about them, it sounds amusing.

So Jon managed it get some Braavosi gold, for the short term a good move but with this reputation this Iron Bank has I fear the worst in the long term (as for King's Landing). I want to know what exactly makes the Iron Bank so infamous with getting their debts paid back.

And yes... who would have guessed from all this possibilities who the grey girl could be it would be Alys Karstark? I like the small information that Lord Karstark planned to marry her to Robb (even if he was a bit early), I always wondered what plans Ned would have had for his children. We already knew about the Karstark betrayal, but I am a bit confused here. If they provoke the death of Harrion Karstark anyway, then why allying with the Boltons? I mean isn't Stannis offering them better terms with giving them Karhold AND Winterfell?

Well so be it, I wonder what Jon will do now. I fear with helping this girl, as noble it would be, he could ride himself into deep shit.

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Funny how all the new young northern girls we meet - The Mormont girls, Wylla Manderley and Alys Karstark - are feisty and willfull.

Also, has GRRM gotten Biblical on us?

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Will hell be following Alys to the Wall? Surely death by hunger, sword and by the beasts of the earth is coming.

Interesting how Jon's and Dany's stories mirror each other. Much has been said of this elsewhere, but it's interesting that they both also beheld a pale horse at their gates. In Dany's case I think it's true that "his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him".

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At the end of the chapter, when Alys says "You are my only hope, Lord Snow," did anyone else think of:

"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope"?

LOL...this is the second time a Star Wars reference has crept into this book. The preceding Tyrion chapter had him thinking 'I have a bad feeling about this.'

On a more serious note though...

...Jon is building an empire through making hard choices, unpopular choices, and mature choices.

...Jon is uniting people( even those that don't want to be united), and using every asset available to him. GRRM rarely gives us the satisfaction of good intentions working out, but I expect this one too. Maybe that's just GRRM setting me up to be crushed again.

I ma happy to see more people are getting this sense of foreboding about the decisions Jon is making. I wrote about it in Jon 8 so I won't repeat it here. He is making unpopular choices and it is quite obvious that the men of the Night's Watch are getting restless about it. Sooner or later, a vigilante type is going to get it in his head that Jon is destroying the NW and stab him in the back.

I think Jon is being set up to be killed by GRRM. GRRM seems to have a problem with the Starks, since all Starks are either being set up to fail (Sansa) or die (Ned, Robb, and now Jon) or lose their identity as a Stark (Arya, Bran, Catelyn).

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a bad feeling at the end of this chapter. Jon is making good choices, hard choices... he's doing exactly what Ned taught him to do... and that scares me. GRRM likes to pull the blanket out from under us when it comes to the best characters.... Ned died when I thought he might be allowed to take the black; Robb died while returning to Winterfell with his family and the same with Cat. Even Arya went blind just when it seemed like she was starting to fit in in Braavos.

I'm sitting on the change up, but I'm still going to wail and nash my teeth if the worst befalls Jon Snow.

I know. I worry more and more about Jon with each chapter. He really is doing all the right things, but of course there are always grumblings and to some he will always be just Ned's bastard. I hope Jon can get word to Stannis before it is too late.

And I want a Wun Wun!!! I wish we got to read about Wun Wun getting drunk for the first time. That had to have been hilarious. I worry that Wun Wun is going to be killed by some ignorant assholes. Poor misunderstood giants. They are people too, damn it!

Oh and Selyse is an annoying bitch. No wonder Stannis stays as far away from her as possible.

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So far I like how Jon is leading the Night's Watch, even if he gets much opposition by the more conservative members. It's quite refreshing in contrast to Dany's chapters.

But whatever he does, he just doesn't get a calm minute now with Queen Selyse and that annoying Florent guy around. I hope they move on to their bloody Nightfort soon, but somehow I have some doubts. I would like to know what exactly Cotter Pyke wrote in all his letters about them, it sounds amusing.

So Jon managed it get some Braavosi gold, for the short term a good move but with this reputation this Iron Bank has I fear the worst in the long term (as for King's Landing). I want to know what exactly makes the Iron Bank so infamous with getting their debts paid back.

And yes... who would have guessed from all this possibilities who the grey girl could be it would be Alys Karstark? I like the small information that Lord Karstark planned to marry her to Robb (even if he was a bit early), I always wondered what plans Ned would have had for his children. We already knew about the Karstark betrayal, but I am a bit confused here. If they provoke the death of Harrion Karstark anyway, then why allying with the Boltons? I mean isn't Stannis offering them better terms with giving them Karhold AND Winterfell?

Well so be it, I wonder what Jon will do now. I fear with helping this girl, as noble it would be, he could ride himself into deep shit.

I agree. I keep looking at Jon and Dany's chapters as being parallels. It's hard though because even though Jon is making good choices, he doesn't have many followers who see that and that may be his undoing and then ultimately theirs because their too blind to see it. Going to save the wildlings by boats is going to just be more flame for the fire...and the borrowing money.

I don't think Mel or Jon should be upset about the mistaken vision. Mel's even said that the flames themselves don't lie, but her interpretations are sometimes wrong. In the flames, she sees a young girl desperately trying to reach Jon on a dying horse. He gets a letter that announces her impending marriage to a monster. She interprets that girl she sees as being his sister due to that. If not for the letter, she probably would have just informed him about some young girl coming, but she jumped to conclusions. It was heartbreaking though to see him get so excited to see her and make plans to keep her safe and then well there's Alys. :crying:

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OK who the heck thought it was a neat idea to introduce Wun Wun to wine? :thumbsup: Yeah an ill-tempered 14-foot tall giant drunk in the yard must be hilarious until he forgets he's a vegetarian....

It's funny to see Jon wrestle with such complex political and financial issues but at the same time have to make sure the giant doesn't turn into a boozer :cheers:

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  • 1 month later...

At the end of the chapter, when Alys says "You are my only hope, Lord Snow," did anyone else think of:

"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope"?

(After lots of lurking, my thoughts of Star Wars of Ice and Fire seemed to warrant a first post. Hi!)

Exactly! And then my mind amended it "Help me, Obi-Jon Ke-snow-bi.....and I felt really embarrassed!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Three comments-

The comment about Jon having to wrestle with drunken giants cracked me up-I am loving the Jon chapters and finding something to make me laugh.

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on Patchface-is he going to be significant somehow?

Mel was wrong!

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There seems to be a lot of emphasis on Patchface-is he going to be significant somehow?

Mel was wrong!

I suspect that Patchface is going to be very significant (I also think that Shireen will have an important role to play at some point). Can't say why exactly, but I've had an inkling about him since he first showed up, I wonder if at some point we will find out who he was before he was a jester and if that that will be significant.

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Well he's already gave some startlingly accurate predictions: the red wedding and other things.

I had forgotten-I've read them all at once and things are getting jumbled up in my head! After I finish this book, I definitely want to go back and reread Game of Thrones as I know I'll find a lot of stuff I missed the first time.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm impressed with the way Jon jumped at the opportunity to feed the men through winter by getting a loan from the Iron bank. Sure it will be tough when the time comes to pay up, but if he doesn't act, they will all starve and be dead anyway. The Iron bank is proving to be a bit of a lynch pin in regards to who has the upper hand in Westeros. Too bad Stannis is buried in snow and unreachable. He needs gold and this is his chance to turn the tides.

Alys Karstark is an interesting development. I have no idea how Jon can help her, but if he is her only hope she is really is in trouble.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Smart move Jon, smart move. He'll now survive the winter, but how the hell is he going to pay back the loan? Perhaps he'll ask Stannis to do so, when he is crowned king.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Smart move Jon, smart move. He'll now survive the winter, but how the hell is he going to pay back the loan? Perhaps he'll ask Stannis to do so, when he is crowned king.

It should be a long winter, and if Jon is right that the Others will be mounting a serious attack it's a good chance to prove the value of the Watch and get some funding. It seems that their options are

*Appealing to a king (not necessarily Stannis) who appreciates the watch.

*Appealing to wealthy relatives of watchmen (probably would have to be his own, and this would depend on the bloodline)

*Collecting valuables from beyond the wall (doesn't seem very likely)

*Figuring something else out that's not apparent to us (he's got a long winter to do it)

He's not going to get his debt forgiven, but the fact that the Iron Bank is willing to give him the loan suggests they believe he could pay it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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