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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 11

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Really? No replies? >.>

I'm proud of Jon. He is becoming a great leader, his father would be proud.

Melisandre sees him being attacked by hidden daggers...not many chapters left, I wonder who it will be.

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Things could go really, really badly for Jon at this stage.

- wildlings can overwhelm the Watch by sheer force

- unhappy brothers like Marsh may stage a rebellion

- a plague of greyscale could break out

I am not optimistic.

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Things could go really, really badly for Jon at this stage.

- wildlings can overwhelm the Watch by sheer force

- unhappy brothers like Marsh may stage a rebellion

- a plague of greyscale could break out

I am not optimistic.

I think some of Jon's brothers will stage a mutiny.

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As Mel said, it is those who are closest to you that will betray you. Definitely a mutinity at the very least. It may as well be a combination of many things. Greyscale, wildling attack, wild walkers, mutiny, and wights.

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I bet for the mutinity. I hope not, but Jon will suffer a lot for the betrayal of his brothers.

Btw, Jon is the best character in this book so far, I only want him to survive the 7 book.

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If greyscale was contagious, wouldn't people know by now? Sounds like wildling superstition to me...

I don't think the wildlings will betray Jon either. Unless it's the Weeper, but Jon's no where near there.

I'm not expecting a full-blown mutiny, but maybe some form of sabotage. Marsh is very cautious - if he is involved, I don't think he'd be the leader. Yarwyck though... he's the First Builder, he might be planning on widening the tunnel beneath the Wall, so that it collapses before the wildlings can make it through. Jon tells Selyse that that may happen if they tried to widen it to let the mammoths through.

Or maybe astrologer and bullshitter-in-chief Melisandre has mistaken the image of daggers spinning around Jon as "Jon is in danger from those around him" with "Jon is dangerous to those around him". The visions are true, ya know, it's only the interpreter who gets it wrong (every...single...time :rolleyes:).

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Am I the only one really starting to get bored with the Jon chapters? He started off well with the beheading of Slynt but it's been pretty tedious since.

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I'm proud of Jon. He is becoming a great leader, his father would be proud.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement. :P

I think he is proving to be a very effective leader though but when he's finally tried with w/e betrayal/calamity is coming up, I hope he proves to be a more Tyrion-like leader than Ned-like one, for the sake of everyone who's alive.

I thought it was interesting George dwelt on the greyscale. When it was first introduced, I (like everyone else I guess) just assumed it was a normal medical plague issue to add realism to GRRM's medieval world. However, the Tyrion chapter in the Sorrows seemed to imply that it had some sort of supernatural element. We know that the maesters are in complete denial of and actively suppressing everything magical, so I trust the wildings on this one. As such, I don't think it's a good idea to chalk it up to "wildling superstition." Poor Shireen. :(

I agree about the Jon chapters being boring. Honestly, I think Jon, Daenerys and Tyrion chapters all have AFFC syndrome in this book (although I've enjoyed Tyrion's chapters because he's one of my favorite characters -- just not as much as I have in previous books) but the one-off and more minor POVs have all been more exciting; they're the ones that have made it a more engaging book than AFFC (Davos, Theon, Asha, Bran, even Areo, etc). The exception being Jaime, that chapter belongs right smack back in AFFC thank you very much (not that I didn't enjoy it but the problem with AFFC was that it was a book stacked with chapter after chapter exactly like that -- nothing happens and then BOOM - big cliffhanger at the end!).

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Am I the only one really starting to get bored with the Jon chapters? He started off well with the beheading of Slynt but it's been pretty tedious since.

No, indeed I've been rather bored since Stannis left.

As for Jon... Ugh, comparing the Jon threads to the Dany threads is kind of reducing my faith in humanity. People are over and over again saying "Look at Jon! He's such a great leader!" and "Look at Dany! She's a terrible leader!" But where exactly is the evidence for that? The proof's in the pudding as they say.

Situation at The Wall:

There will soon be thousands more useless mouths to feed at the wall, and I don't care how much money they are getting from Braavos, where is the food supposed to be coming from with all the harvests destroyed by war?

Jon is brusque and rude with his colleagues, never giving an inch, never compromising even slightly. He is showing high levels of preference for his wildling men (no matter his constant claims that he's "not half wildling") and common boys over the older, more experienced, and highborn commanders. It's understandable but it's not wise.

He sent away every single one of his good allies to the other parts of the wall, and why?? This was way back in his 2nd and 3rd chapters, I think. Grenn, Pyp, Maester Aemon, Sam, everyone. Yes now he has Horse and Sable but he needs his true brothers to protect him. I think this was extremely unwise.

I don't blame Jon. I rather like him now. He's taking action FINALLY (my biggest problem with him in the past was that he never took any decisions himself but was always forced into them). I think he's doing the best he can, but I think it's only fair to look at what he's doing objectively. He has prejudices, he has blind spots, and they are going to cost him eventually. The only thing that I think could save him is a giant attack by The Others, which IMO will not come this book. Also Stannis returning would also help (I hate that we still don't know the fate of the Battle for Winterfell - cmon already!)

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There will soon be thousands more useless mouths to feed at the wall, and I don't care how much money they are getting from Braavos, where is the food supposed to be coming from with all the harvests destroyed by war?

"we will bring food by ship...from the riverlands and stormlands and the Vale of Arryn from Dorn and the Reach accross the Narrow Sea from the free citys"

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There will soon be thousands more useless mouths to feed at the wall, and I don't care how much money they are getting from Braavos, where is the food supposed to be coming from with all the harvests destroyed by war?

Jon is brusque and rude with his colleagues, never giving an inch, never compromising even slightly. He is showing high levels of preference for his wildling men (no matter his constant claims that he's "not half wildling") and common boys over the older, more experienced, and highborn commanders. It's understandable but it's not wise.

But they need to get the wildlings on the other side of the Wall to help in the fight against the Others (and also not to be fodder for an army of wights). This is the crucial battle - it's no longer about rangers vs wildlings. Jon is making the toughest decisions, that no one else seems capable of making, and that no one else even has the vision to see is a decision that needs to be made.

He has to be brusque and rude with them; he is the Lord Commander, and they are not happy with the choices he is making. If he doesn't, he would stumble in a moment.

Jon is doing a great job IMO - action, rather than inaction.

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No, indeed I've been rather bored since Stannis left.

As for Jon... Ugh, comparing the Jon threads to the Dany threads is kind of reducing my faith in humanity. People are over and over again saying "Look at Jon! He's such a great leader!" and "Look at Dany! She's a terrible leader!" But where exactly is the evidence for that? The proof's in the pudding as they say.

Situation at The Wall:

There will soon be thousands more useless mouths to feed at the wall, and I don't care how much money they are getting from Braavos, where is the food supposed to be coming from with all the harvests destroyed by war?

Jon is brusque and rude with his colleagues, never giving an inch, never compromising even slightly. He is showing high levels of preference for his wildling men (no matter his constant claims that he's "not half wildling") and common boys over the older, more experienced, and highborn commanders. It's understandable but it's not wise.

He sent away every single one of his good allies to the other parts of the wall, and why?? This was way back in his 2nd and 3rd chapters, I think. Grenn, Pyp, Maester Aemon, Sam, everyone. Yes now he has Horse and Sable but he needs his true brothers to protect him. I think this was extremely unwise.

I don't blame Jon. I rather like him now. He's taking action FINALLY (my biggest problem with him in the past was that he never took any decisions himself but was always forced into them). I think he's doing the best he can, but I think it's only fair to look at what he's doing objectively. He has prejudices, he has blind spots, and they are going to cost him eventually. The only thing that I think could save him is a giant attack by The Others, which IMO will not come this book. Also Stannis returning would also help (I hate that we still don't know the fate of the Battle for Winterfell - cmon already!)

I've been loving the Jon chapters this book, but I'm full of foreboding for him.

I think the Dany and Jon chapters are a great parallel. They both want the same thing for their people and they both are concerned for the safety of all humanity within their reach not just for the few that are considered "theirs." But there has been a great deal of difference in how they've gone about achieving their ends.

Dany is clever and is good at conquering, but when it comes to ruling and figuring out how to make what she wants to happen, happen, she's lacking. That's not to say she's a terrible leader; she's not a great one right now, but she has potential. She hasn't had any experience, hasn't been surrounded by great council for most of her life, and hasn't received much instruction in the ways of ruling. This has left her without a way to tease through the various issues that have arisen. She knows what she wants to do but lacks the experience and knowledge to put her desires into action.

Jon's completely different. He grew up under the guidance of Lord Eddard, had a maester to instruct him and spent time amongst the NW where he was groomed by Mormont and advised again by maester Aemon.

He learned a great deal about what it takes for people to follow you and respect you, so when he had to figure out a way to save everyone, he did it. Doesn't mean everyone is going to like it, and as we've been warned by Mel, he's probably going to pay a great price for it, but it doesn't mean he's not doing the right thing or being a good leader. The problems he's facing right now are from prejudiced NW who don't think everyone is worth saving and he can't beg and plead with them to change their ways. He's LC; he has to act with strength or he won't get anything done.

I'm sad that he's sent away all of his friends, but I think he's doing that to remain strong. His friends were friends of his when he was just Jon Snow, and as his father instructed him he has to be careful about making friends with people that he commands. I think he sent them away because he knew if they remained he wouldn't be able to make these strong decisions as they remind him to much of the boy he once was.

The bit about greyscale being a sleeper was interesting, especially with Griff's gaining the disease. I'll be interested to see if that has an impact in the future.

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I bet for the mutinity. I hope not, but Jon will suffer a lot for the betrayal of his brothers.

Btw, Jon is the best character in this book so far, I only want him to survive the 7 book.

When did he betray his brothers?

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my heart skipped a beat when Val said, "You know nothing, Jon Snow." <3

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Am I the only one really starting to get bored with the Jon chapters? He started off well with the beheading of Slynt but it's been pretty tedious since.

I experienced the same thing. I just finished the book tonight and was feeling guilty the past couple of days when I'd come to a Jon chapter and skimmed a lot of it. But I felt that way about much of this book. There were some fantastic chapters and I'd think, "Ok, now we're rollin'" but the next chapter would be a bit of a chore. Maybe I'll feel differently after the re-read.

I think the mutiny or whatever happens at the wall may give Jon a reason to flee the wall completely and end up in one of the free cities where he'll come face to face with Arya and perhaps Dani.

**edited for spoiler content**

Sorry!

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I'm confused about grayscale-in the Tyrion chapters they seemed to think it was contagious but if so, why don't any of the people around Shireen catch it from her?

I loved the way Jon still remembers so much about Arya and wants her back, even his vows can't change that.

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I'm confused about grayscale-in the Tyrion chapters they seemed to think it was contagious but if so, why don't any of the people around Shireen catch it from her? I loved the way Jon still remembers so much about Arya and wants her back, even his vows can't change that.

As far as I can understand from this chapter, Grayscale sounds a lot like the chicken pox XD !! It can be lethal in adults (and can make adult men sterile), but with children they can be affected and saved. Some people who had chicken pox are left with scars from the poc marks, and greyscale seems to leave markings as well. However, the virus that causes chicken pox remains dormant within your spinal fluid. This is for life. Given certain conditions, especially when under severe stress, it is known for the chicken pox virus to awaken from your spinal fluid later in life, in a form called "Shingles" (look it up). You get streaks of it across your back, along the nerves which wrap from your spine outwards from the torso. I just found that to be very interesting. Of course, greyscale sounds a lot more disfiguringly frightening compared to Shingles/Chicken Pox. At least if you die from chicken pox, you're dead, but greyscale seems like a zombie sort of horrible non-life. But the similarities to chicken pox was pretty cool to me.

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How old is Val? Too bold of a claim to say Jon gets with her in the future? I think it is pretty obvious that GRRM is setting them up for something like this if the age difference is not too crazy. With that said, I could see him with an older woman. Oh ya, Night's Watch vow. Damn it to hell.... >.>

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I get so frustrated reading Jon's chapters. To be surrounded by so much ignorance... I'd go mad. If the free folk remain on the North side of the wall in time they all die and come back as wights-can't believe that his brothers still don't get that... :bang:

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