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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] The Sacrifice

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I think once the northmen discover the "Arya" deception, they will be inclined to support Stannis out of pride and anger. Not to mention the fact that if Theon reveals all, they will know that Bran and Rickon are still alive somewhere.

The only problem is that Stannis will probably execute Theon for his crimes, regardless of what information he has.

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But would Theon get the opportunity to tell Stannis that Arnolf Karstark is a traitor to him?

Even if he does tell him, would Stannis have the men to take control of the Karstarks' army?

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The burning scene, with the religious fanaticism, was so awful (I don’t care how many Tudor stories I read either, it does not get any easier). And Stannis, being his usual cold, merciless self, yet believing he is constantly in the right and the true king (really?) – cannot wait till he meets his end.

The continued hopelessness of their foundered march was very well done though. And Clayton is a menace to behold. I did find the ending slightly unbelievable though – how could they find them in that ongoing, furious snow storm? Not only that, but her men from the dungeons of Deepwood Motte and the Braavosi banker, managed to find Theon and Jeyne in that landscape and escort them to Stannis’ camp? Very fortuitous.

That said, I loved Asha seeing Theon, and Theon’s line.

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I dont understand why this chapter was called The Sacrifice. A sacrifice happened, but usually the PoV chapter name refers to the PoV themself. Like Asha was The Kings Prize, makes sense, but she simply wasnt any kind of sacrifice.

I think the named PoVs are stupid anyway TBH. Would have preferred they just do Asha etc. Reek/Theon was fine, since he really did change his name, but the rest were annoying. Especially Victarion, since he goes back and forth seemingly at random.

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The chapters in the north have been the most entertaining for me (Jon, Stannis, Theon/Reek, Asha). The story from here can go in any direction.

I do agree that the Braavosi bankers arrival is a little bit unbelievable. Everyone is stuck, yet he seems to be able to ride from the Wall to Deepwood Motte, to Winterfell and then find Stannis without any problems. He seems a bit of a plot mechanis, just for Jon to solve the food problem and to boost Stannis' position for the Iron Throne.

Still a great chapter though :)

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Didn't anybody notice that Asha's jailer, as well as the Braavosi banker, have gone off to find Stannis. She's alone with the men of the Night's Watch who escorted the banker, her men from Deepwood Motte, and the fake Arya.

My prediction: she takes her Ironmen and Theon and hightails it to Torrhen's square (still under the command of Dagmar Cleftjaw, I believe), leaving Jeyne Poole with the men of the Night's Watch. The Night's Watch escort are sworn not to interfere with politics, so they wouldn't stop her even if they wanted to.

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This chapter had one of my new favorite lines ever-

Some men had faces that cried out for a beard. Ser Clayton's face cried out for an axe between the eyes.

:lmao:

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The only problem is that Stannis will probably execute Theon for his crimes, regardless of what information he has.

He's got king's blood, so he does seem like an ideal candidate for burning...

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I thought sacrifice was an appropriate title, since that is what Asha feels she will be at the time of her narrative.

I don't think Stannis will execute Theon. Stannis is all about justice, but there are certain rules for nobility. If Stannis can use Theon to assist him in his claim, then perhaps Theon's punishment can wait until after he takes the seastone throne and bends the knee.

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I never thought this would happen, but at the end I smiled when Theon showed up.

Did anybody else think that Asha was going to be sacrficed? when I read the chapter titles and then saw it was a Asha POV I was like " NOOOOO" Cause she's the only Greyjoy I genuinely like.

Bah, GRRM is a nasty man with pulling out such a chapter title. I also was thinking they really were planning to sacrifice Asha. The last thing I need is a POV that gets burned alive.

But yes, very awesome chapter, particularly the ending. Now Theon (fuck yeah!) there is a big game changer. He can just drop the bomb with revealing the Bran/Rickon stuff, the events back then in Winterfell by the Boltons, Arya/Jeyne and the Karstark betrayal. I wonder what Stannis would do with the Karstarks now, will they under this new circumstances really switch to Stannis or fight? They are still in the minority. Not to forget that Roose sent the Manderlys out to fight Stannis, since they already dealt with Davos and without "Arya" there is no reason anymore to stick around with Bolton, I would expect them to switch sides. And I thought Stannis was already doomed (although his queen's men can die in battle). Not sure if Asha would take Theon and escape together to Torrhen's Square, I think she would try to to arrange some kind of alliance with Stannis or somehow win his support, it's hard to imagine they would accomplish it to escape in such a long distance.

And Mors Umber wins the prize for being the hero of the day. I can't get rid of the image how he is just there sitting in front of Winterfell with his small host of greenhorns and blowing horns und beating drums, while the Boltons and Freys are pissing themselves within the walls.

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I loved this chapter...well the end of it anyway. Theon knows his name again and he smiled! Roose was wrong; he did have it in him to betray Ramsay.

Hopefully Stannis won't kill him, but I think he'll see the better use of him being alive. It will be interesting how much he tells Stannis about everything. The Karstarks better have a good back up story, but with how much they're pushing to get to Winterfell I don't think they had plans of betraying the Boltons.

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Maybe this is the Economic Crisis talking, but I find the idea of a banker riding alone through the snow a bit silly. To start off with, I find the idea of a big, influencing bank already pretty "fantastic". In real history, banks were not developed before Renaissance era, which Westeros clearly has not reached yet. You need a certain functioning political and economic system to run a bank. Otherwise, you'll just end up bankrupt.

But even if I somehow assume that the Free Cities are rich and developed enough to sprout banks... I find the idea of a banker as a hard, cunning, calculating super hero, well as I said: silly. He would fit more into a Terry Pratchett novel than into this. The person feels way too unreal. For example: Could anybody imagine a POV for that guy? What does he think? What is he like? Apparently he fears absolutely nothing. Even without a war raging, there should be all kinds of dangers on the road from the Wall to Winterfell.

Anyway...

... the idea with the horns and drums was quite nifty. I imagine Roose Bolton's northman planning a sortie, but getting completely buried and confused in the snow. Some freezing to death, others getting even more frustrated and starting to hack at each other.

Then again... is it reasonable to assume that a castle full of people gets fooled by some music? If they hear the drums, but don't see any army... would they not be suspicious? We're talking about quite big numbers here. You cannot easily hide an army of 10.000 people in the snow. And if they cannot see any army from their towers of Winterfell, they must realize that the army might not be there.

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Maybe this is the Economic Crisis talking, but I find the idea of a banker riding alone through the snow a bit silly. To start off with, I find the idea of a big, influencing bank already pretty "fantastic". In real history, banks were not developed before Renaissance era, which Westeros clearly has not reached yet. You need a certain functioning political and economic system to run a bank. Otherwise, you'll just end up bankrupt.

But even if I somehow assume that the Free Cities are rich and developed enough to sprout banks... I find the idea of a banker as a hard, cunning, calculating super hero, well as I said: silly. He would fit more into a Terry Pratchett novel than into this. The person feels way too unreal. For example: Could anybody imagine a POV for that guy? What does he think? What is he like? Apparently he fears absolutely nothing. Even without a war raging, there should be all kinds of dangers on the road from the Wall to Winterfell.

Anyway...

... the idea with the horns and drums was quite nifty. I imagine Roose Bolton's northman planning a sortie, but getting completely buried and confused in the snow. Some freezing to death, others getting even more frustrated and starting to hack at each other.

Then again... is it reasonable to assume that a castle full of people gets fooled by some music? If they hear the drums, but don't see any army... would they not be suspicious? We're talking about quite big numbers here. You cannot easily hide an army of 10.000 people in the snow. And if they cannot see any army from their towers of Winterfell, they must realize that the army might not be there.

With a snowstorm raging, it would be easy for them to mistake Mors Umber's force for a much larger army.

WRT banks, I think that Braavos is a state that's similar to medieval Venice or Genoa. It would therefore have a pretty sophisticated banking system, whose banks would lend to foreign rulers, among others. And in such states, the great merchants and bankers and ships' captains were at the same time the nobility, who would be expected to know how to handle weapons and ride. I find it rather a nice touch that the Iron Bank of Braavos is prepared to live up to its name, and go to any length to recover its debts.

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I thought for sure the riders at the end of the chapter were going to be Frey men, and that would have really pi$$ed me off...thank you Watch! But seriously, things need to move for our boy Stannis here or he really will get run down in the night, or day, from Frey's or other tools upon steeds.

My hopes for Theon being in charge of Winterfell are still alive - yeah! Hopefully Stannis will not be his normal self and have him burned at the stake.

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The end of this chapter nailed Theon's redemption for me.

For me, he still has a long way to got for that to happen. So far he did what, save some 4th tier character from sexual abuse?

That's nice and all, but not enough.

When he has helped retaking Winterfell for the good guys (i.e. Starks), killed Ramsay Bolton, saved the life of an actual Stark (don't care who) and reallied the Iron Islands with the Realm (and stopped all this reaving bullshit), THEN he will have redeemed himself in my eyes.

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Asha is a spitfire. I think Natalie Dormer should play her not Margarey Tyrell.

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For me, he still has a long way to got for that to happen. So far he did what, save some 4th tier character from sexual abuse?

That's nice and all, but not enough.

When he has helped retaking Winterfell for the good guys (i.e. Starks), killed Ramsay Bolton, saved the life of an actual Stark (don't care who) and reallied the Iron Islands with the Realm (and stopped all this reaving bullshit), THEN he will have redeemed himself in my eyes.

Spot on!

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Spot on!

Oh come on, Sandor piece of shit Clegane has done worse things but he gets universal love on this forum .

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For me, he still has a long way to got for that to happen. So far he did what, save some 4th tier character from sexual abuse?

That's nice and all, but not enough.

When he has helped retaking Winterfell for the good guys (i.e. Starks), killed Ramsay Bolton, saved the life of an actual Stark (don't care who) and reallied the Iron Islands with the Realm (and stopped all this reaving bullshit), THEN he will have redeemed himself in my eyes.

It's supposed to be poignant, being that he earlier killed some nth tier characters under the pretext of killing a stark. He could have easily told mance and co that jeyne wasn't arya and she would have been further tortured/killed by Ramsay. Now the reverse, he rescues a minor character under the pretext of rescuing a stark.

To me anyway its hard to redeem theon, as he murdered two innocent children, but that said I don't think he did anything wrong by capturing Winterfell. He was a hostage of the starks, not a guest and his father declared war on them. The starks had participated in the sack of pyke, and Robb was actively capturing enemy castles. Theon owed the Starks not loyalty, he fought for his family and captured the castle of his enemies.

The starks aren't more valuable than other humans, saving a stark isn't a better deed than saving jeyne.

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Yes but he is awesome.

This was one of the best chapters, the scene with the riders showing up and making us think it were mounted enemies really had my heart thumping in my throat, especially because I was starting to like Asha's jailor and thought he'd get cut down on the spot (I know he's an utter bastard, but he's so wicked I find it hilarious and wanted to laugh with him some more, after all it's only fiction).

I've said a few times before I think the banker is more than what he looks like. He's not even described as suffering from the cold and has no guards with him.

I have a feeling this isn't going to end as well as we might hope however. The friction between Northmen and Theon, how their mission is essentially over because they have Jeyne, Theon's state of mind (even though he seems a bit more confident), the fact Stannis will view Theon as an enemy, a rebel and a good sacrifice as a possible king, the fact they might not believe him, the possible (un)willingness of the Northmen to turn on Karstark because Theon tells them so, the possibility the enemy will show up seconds later, the untrustworthiness of the Greyjoys in whole, the fact they could escape to Torhen's Square and not give a damn about Stannis and his army... There's a lot that could go wrong.

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