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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] The Sacrifice

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Maybe this is the Economic Crisis talking, but I find the idea of a banker riding alone through the snow a bit silly. To start off with, I find the idea of a big, influencing bank already pretty "fantastic". In real history, banks were not developed before Renaissance era, which Westeros clearly has not reached yet. You need a certain functioning political and economic system to run a bank. Otherwise, you'll just end up bankrupt.

But even if I somehow assume that the Free Cities are rich and developed enough to sprout banks... I find the idea of a banker as a hard, cunning, calculating super hero, well as I said: silly. He would fit more into a Terry Pratchett novel than into this. The person feels way too unreal. For example: Could anybody imagine a POV for that guy? What does he think? What is he like? Apparently he fears absolutely nothing. Even without a war raging, there should be all kinds of dangers on the road from the Wall to Winterfell.

I agree with you but it is an interesting plot device nonetheless. I imagine GRRM needed Stannis to have a more favourable outcome, so in comes the Braavosi banker.

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It's supposed to be poignant, being that he earlier killed some nth tier characters under the pretext of killing a stark. He could have easily told mance and co that jeyne wasn't arya and she would have been further tortured/killed by Ramsay. Now the reverse, he rescues a minor character under the pretext of rescuing a stark.

To me anyway its hard to redeem theon, as he murdered two innocent children, but that said I don't think he did anything wrong by capturing Winterfell. He was a hostage of the starks, not a guest and his father declared war on them. The starks had participated in the sack of pyke, and Robb was actively capturing enemy castles. Theon owed the Starks not loyalty, he fought for his family and captured the castle of his enemies.

The starks aren't more valuable than other humans, saving a stark isn't a better deed than saving jeyne.

^This^

Though I would add to fully redeem himself, Theon needs to live long enough to fully become Theon again. Reek is irredeemable.

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^This^

Though I would add to fully redeem himself, Theon needs to live long enough to fully become Theon again. Reek is irredeemable.

Theon is a better person than Jaime .

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Reek will never be likable, only pitiful. Theon only came across as strong and likable until he took Winterfell, since then he has become ever more pitiful culminating in Reek.

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What if they never reveal Theon to Stannis and his men? Only Asha, her men, Jeyne and the banker know who he is - we know from Asha that Theon looks nothing like his former self. None of the people who know who he is have reason to reveal that information at this time. If I'm Stannis, I'm more likely to listen to an escaped servent from Winterfell than the turncloak.

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I like the idea of Ramsay's letter being real. It sets up the story much better than if the letter is fake. Stannis seemed like a lost cause anyway. Realistically, I don't think he had much of a chance. Granted, the Boltons/Freys/Manderlys were at each other's throats, but Stannis's army was on the verge of destruction. They were far worse off. Even the hill tribes were starting to wear down.

Plus, I like the idea of Dany ultimately allying with the Boltons. She hates the Starks and blames them for the death of her family, so she'd find someone like Roose or Ramsay to be a natural ally if she ever makes it to Westeros. That would create so much conflict in the story, I don't see how GRRM could possibly pass it up.

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Theon is a better person than Jaime .

Not even close. Jaime has always protected the weak, ever since he saved the smallfolk from King Aerys's wildfire (a selfless act which cost him his reputation). He also rescued Brienne from Vargo Hoat, and saved Pia from Gregor's men... not to mention everything he's done for Tyrion throughout his life. He spared Edmure Tully, and his child, and if Bran ends up becoming the Great Other, his attempt to murder him will look good in hindsight. He may be arrogant, but deep down he is one of the only "True Knights" around (i.e. he really does protect the weak from the strong... unlike Theon).

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When you think about it, if the northmen eventually all support Stannis, that is exactly how it would have been had Ned survived. Ned, after all, was in the mindset that Stannis had the best claim to the throne after Robert died. I hope it comes to fruition. It should be interesting once the Targaryen forces gather some support to see how this unfolds.

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I like the idea of Ramsay's letter being real. It sets up the story

Which letter are you talking about? Please explain. I don't remember something about a letter. Was it in this chapter?

and if Bran ends up becoming the Great Other

WTF? Where are we supposed to get this from?

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Ugh, I yuck that theory as much as The Children = Others but that's what we're all here for to discuss and speculate or can there really be such a thing as a bad crackpot theory?

Anyhoo,

Because GRRM is so crafty with his plotting, some people feel the need to outdo him or "get there" before he does. It's kinda like trying to steal a dragon, your only gonna get burned.

So while some believe Bran maybe working for the Others and is unaware as of yet. There are threads devoted to this and they make some good arguments. The only thing in the whole story, so far, that would make me think it's a possibility is that Old Nan said something to the effect that "Crows lie" but that was when Bran was telling everyone that the Crow said he could fly, so it probably doesn't have any other meaning.. but with GRRM you never know, so I think that if Bran is currently "on the wrong side" once he figures that out he'll do the right thing and save the day. He is a Stark after all.

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So kind of OT:

Well, I don't have anything against wild speculation. But maybe a thread like this isn't the right place for it to randomly throw in those hypotheses. And I'm always wondering where people get the ideas for these speculations. Sure, I'm aware that there's something going on with Bran that we can't really catch now... but well, my brain never leads me to these conclusions. lol

Bran = The Other is a really hard one I think. Kind of spoiling although nothing is confirmed. But anyway, since it sounds very interesting to me I'll look for the topic where it's discussed.

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This chapter was fun! Not so much the burning and eating of the dead part, but Asha's sardonic lines and her way of dealing with a pretty desperate situation with irony and dark humor: "Some men had faces that cried out for a beard. Ser Clayton's face cried out for an axe between the eyes."

Oh, and I loved the "Red Rahloo" line :)

The Braavosi banker showing up as cheerful as the day is long in the midst of all that snow and cold was surreal, but I thought it was funny. Can't help picturing him as Icabod Crane, from that cartoon (a Disney Halloween special I think)

Anxious to see what Theon would do, you never know with him...

I for one do not see the Bran=the Others connection. It's more Bran=The Old Gods

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okay so it has now been 49 days since Asha and Stannis's army left Deepwood Motte.

30 days travel+19 days being stranded at a village 100 leagues from Winterfell.

We also know that Jon sent Stannis out from the Wall to take Deepwood Motte in chapter 18 of ADWD, which was the 4th Jon chapter.

So if we can find out what date Stannis and Asha left Deepwood Motte, we can then find out when this chapter happens (in which Theon arrives near to the village on the lake) and therefore when Theon and Jeyne escaped from Winterfell-which was in ADWD 52: Theon (technically this is the 7th Theon chapter).

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if the guy that plays Theon in the TV show manages to pull out all of the depth of the written character, it will be legendary!

Can't wait!

hum... 2015? :S

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Mors Umber, my hero, just imagine him sitting infront of Winterfell, unbelievable. Great tactic by Stannis. Talking about Stannis: I'm wondering what he's going to do with Theon, which has become one of my favorite characters.

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The end of this chapter nailed Theon's redemption for me. I was struggling against it so much with him as Reek (then the various other names through the book). I'm team Theon now. Though, I hope Theon is not so short-lived.

Amazing how GRRM redeems characters.

^ This. Finally Theon really has a chance to redeem himself. I hope he will find a place to belong to in the end.

Amazing how the pieces fall into place in these last chapters of the book!

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The Sacrifice. It sets up Theon being the Sacrifice. He is only surviving Balon's son, heir to the Seastone Chair. Sons come before brothers for inheritance. He has King's blood. He's a better sacrifice than Asha. Stannis can't forgive him for murdering the Miller's boys. He has to pay for his crimes. Stannis won't forgive him his sin. He must burn.

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The best part was Theon Greyjoys smile....hes back!!! And I think its important that he is a turncloak. I mean come on people if you don't think Stannis will use him to his advantage then you haven't been paying attention. Some people are meant to be "traitors". Theon redemption will be a highlight by series end.

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Didn't think we would be seeing Theon again this book so the ending of this chapter was an awesome surprise. Can't help but wonder what will happen now though since the northmens main reasons for helping Stannis was to rescue "neds little girl" which I assume will be promptly shown to be a fake. The Queensmen are shown to be batshit crazy as per usual.

Never thought of that... If they know it is not Arya... hmmm... interesting thinking right there... Might be they burn both Theon and Asha (I do recall Melisandre requiring sacrifice of two kings or people of royal blood, I might be wrong though.

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