[ADwD Spoilers] What Bran Sees

[Dingsda]

Eddard's mother's mother was a mountain clan Flint. Who she married and who their daughter was (Ned's mom) is still unknown)

She-wolves? Please elaborate?

As far as I know a group of widowed Stark women.

Cf. http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/Dangerous_Women/

[Radio Changes]

When Bran reached out to his father when he was praying and his father looked at the trees quizzically, I started contemplating how large of a mindfuck it would be if somehow when he's witnessing these events, he isn't just passive but is actually there as the tree at that time, and can reach into the past. It would be quite the mindfuck, that's what.

I'm all for Bran's new tree powers and all the boredom I felt when readig his story in ASoS is totally rectified.

[Dolourous UndEdd]

A Bran sees, a Bran knows. :-D

He is turning into one seriously creepy kid, a thousand eyes and two.

[Claireducky]

As far as I know a group of widowed Stark women.

Cf. http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/Dangerous_Women/

Hmm a group of widowed Stark women "four of them widows of a bunch of fairly recent former Lord Starks, and the current Lady Stark, whose 30-something husband is fading fast from a wound taken from fighting the Ironborn."

If it is from fighting the Ironborn, that would likely be from Dagon Greyjoy's rebellion, which happened during the time of Aerys I, which would fit into Dunk and Egg's timeline.

I think it's fairly a sure bet that the scene of the tall knight kissing a woman is of Dunk, which would have been during this visit, but it seems odd to me the preceding vision of a pregnant woman would also be from that same era...the gaps between most scenes are longer than that. However, I suppose it is possible that the pregnant woman could be the widow of Beron Stark or one of his sons...

[Claireducky]

As much as I would love it to be a she-wolf, I don't think it is. Wouldn't make sense to have two different scenes from within a year of each other (Dunk kissing the girl and a pregnant woman)

The more I think about it, I think that the pregnant woman has to be Rickard's mom (Edwyle's wife).

It's thought that Rickard was an only son, so perhaps his father Edwyle was killed sometime during her pregnancy. This would fit in with her wanting for vengeance and praying for a son.

[jack88]

When Bran reached out to his father when he was praying and his father looked at the trees quizzically, I started contemplating how large of a mindfuck it would be if somehow when he's witnessing these events, he isn't just passive but is actually there as the tree at that time, and can reach into the past. It would be quite the mindfuck, that's what.

I'm all for Bran's new tree powers and all the boredom I felt when readig his story in ASoS is totally rectified.

Man I am all for tree Bran too. It's also weird because Bloodraven had JUST finished telling Bran that he had never been able to reach through and talk to people in the past, and then suddenly Bran is warging the past and Eddard can sense him.

Just having Eddard "onscreen" for a bit was super weird too, in a good way. I think it'd be great if Bran can actually tree-warg enough to hold a conversation with him, or any of the other dead characters. Not even to change the past, just talking to them would be great.

[Lummel]

I'm VERY curious about the implications of the blood sacrifice. I have a feeling it's a very important part of the puzzle we cannot fully see yet.

Yes, blood sacrifice at Winterfell (so far) seems to have been pretty ancient but Asha and Mormont notice fresh blood in the face of a Weirwood too and way back in ACOK doesn't it mention that there were skulls and other things inside a weirwoods mouth in one of the Wildling villages?

...Not sure I'd enjoy knowing about the Weirwood grove inside the Dreadfort...

But man, I just get the jollies thinking about all the shit Bran will be able to look back on and present in his chapters in WoW. Like this is it. Bran is going to be able to ANSWER SOME SHIT for us. He was already moments away from nailing down the truth about Jon's birth when he saw Eddard in the godswood, and that is just ONE SINGLE MOMENT. MMMMM. DELICIOUS

So long as the shitting took place in front of a Weirwood we're sorted!

[Claireducky]

Bloodraven might be mistaken, but he pretty unequivocally stated that you cannot talk to those in the past. While Eddard sensed "something", it doesn't mean that he HEARD Bran, or ever will. If Bran could actually talk to or affect the past, it could set off a huge paradox, which means I don't think it will ever happen.

Now, talking to people in the present is a different story, as evidenced by the Old Bear's crow saying Jon Snow instead of just Snow.

[The Rattleshirt]

I assume that when people sense the presence in a weirwood, they pass it off as the gods talking to them when in fact it is a greenseer's spirit in the tree instead.

[BrainFireBob]

Or maybe it's pointless, because you cannot change the past.

Loony theory: Rickard as the son of Aegon the Unworthy.

He abandons Rickard's mother after her husband dies. Aegon was rather unworthy.

She's a northerner, and wants vengeance.

Rickard spends his life building southron alliances through marriages and fostering. Perhaps he dreamed of the crown?

As someone else mentioned in another thread, it was Rickard's alliances that brought down Aerys, and the "primary" sides of the War of Five Kings were Rickard vs. the West, one of Aerys' old supporters.

It would mean Aerys was justified in his pathological mistrust of the Starks, and adds to the theme of the Great Bastards being bad news.

[jack88]

Bloodraven might be mistaken, but he pretty unequivocally stated that you cannot talk to those in the past. While Eddard sensed "something", it doesn't mean that he HEARD Bran, or ever will. If Bran could actually talk to or affect the past, it could set off a huge paradox, which means I don't think it will ever happen.

Now, talking to people in the present is a different story, as evidenced by the Old Bear's crow saying Jon Snow instead of just Snow.

I like the idea of him being able to just talk to a character in the past via snapshots, without actually changing anything, although the logistics of this might be irritating to try and work out so maybe it will just stay no talking in the past whatsoever

And yes that's right, I don't think Eddard actually heard Bran that time, just sensed him (or sensed something at least)

Although that mere recognition in itself seems like enough to change the past, if indeed Martin would allow it, which he won't, because that would be terrible

[Claireducky]

Or maybe it's pointless, because you cannot change the past.

Loony theory: Rickard as the son of Aegon the Unworthy.

He abandons Rickard's mother after her husband dies. Aegon was rather unworthy.

She's a northerner, and wants vengeance.

Rickard spends his life building southron alliances through marriages and fostering. Perhaps he dreamed of the crown?

As someone else mentioned in another thread, it was Rickard's alliances that brought down Aerys, and the "primary" sides of the War of Five Kings were Rickard vs. the West, one of Aerys' old supporters.

It would mean Aerys was justified in his pathological mistrust of the Starks, and adds to the theme of the Great Bastards being bad news.

I think exploring Rickard's ambitions in the south is a thread worth looking at (maybe I can put together info for a new post), but being Aegon's son is not the reason. Timelines don't line up. We don't know exactly when Rickard was born, but as he started having kids around 261 AL, it's probably fair to guess he was born in the 240's. Aegon the Unworthy died in 184 AL.

EDIT: To drive this fact home, Rickard would have been born during the early years of Aegon V (Egg)'s reign.

I DO think that the woman in the vision IS Rickard's mom, as it would fit with the timeline of the scene before being Dunk (and likely Egg with him) at Winterfell, and the scene after being Lyanna and Benjen as kids. But why she wants vengeance we have yet to figure out.

[Jaburu]

I don't think the other kid with the girl that looks like Arya is Benjen, nor Ned. Bran, at first glance, thought it was him, but he "had never worn his hair so long". As we know Bran hais auburn hair, peculiar to the Tullys, and noticeably different from the Stark dark brown hair. I assume Benjen has "Stark hair", and the boy Bran sees has hair like his, auburn hair, but longer.

[Claireducky]

I don't think the other kid with the girl that looks like Arya is Benjen, nor Ned. Bran, at first glance, thought it was him, but he "had never worn his hair so long". As we know Bran hais auburn hair, peculiar to the Tullys, and noticeably different from the Stark dark brown hair. I assume Benjen has "Stark hair", and the boy Bran sees has hair like his, auburn hair, but longer.

Don't know about his hair color, but Benjen had blue eyes like Bran, and Benjen wore his hair long as a child.

[Huck]

Yes, blood sacrifice at Winterfell (so far) seems to have been pretty ancient but Asha and Mormont notice fresh blood in the face of a Weirwood too and way back in ACOK doesn't it mention that there were skulls and other things inside a weirwoods mouth in one of the Wildling villages?

I really wonder whether the red fluid in the Weirwood paste that Brandon is fed isn't blood. My own pet theory at the moment is that magic (including greensight) is fuelled by blood sacrifices of some kind.

[Tracy Semonik]

I really wonder whether the red fluid in the Weirwood paste that Brandon is fed isn't blood. My own pet theory at the moment is that magic (including greensight) is fuelled by blood sacrifices of some kind.

Okay, maybe I'm dumb and I know it's kinda gross (but there was a lot of cannabilism in this installment) but could it be Jojen's blood in there? Like his blood is feeding Bran's growth? Cuz, I can't figure for the life of me why Meera's convinced that Jojen is going to die. They really could hang with the Children til Spring, couldn't they? And I've posted before how I think there's something about the Reeds and the Children, not limited to green dreams.

[Abel]

cause i think this is pretty crucial and we`ll need the exact words for doing proper speculation, sorry if anyone thinks this is too long:

.... a thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. a greenseer....

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man`s gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay acroos Lord Eddard`s lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oilcloth.

"Winterfell", Bran whispered.

His father looked up. "Who`s there?" he asked, turning...

... and Bran, frigthened pulled away. His father and the black pool and the godswood faded...

..

"Winterfell. Iwas back in Winterfell. I saw my fahter. He`s not dead. He`s not, I saw him, he`s back at Winterfell, he`s still alive." "No", said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death".

...

"But", said Bran, "he heard me."

"He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves. You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. Ihave my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past reamins the past. We can learn from it, but we cannot change it."

...

"The singers carved eyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a now greenseer learns to use.. but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves." (so it is possible to see beyond the eyes of the trees!!!)

...

... but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. "... let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them," he prayed, "and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive..." "Father." Brean`s voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it"s me. It`s Bran. Brandon." Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the wirwood, frowning, but he did not speak. He cannot see me, Bran realized despairing.

...

Eddard STark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill up with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwoods? If I cry, will the tree begin to wee? (i think we got here the hint, that whenever there are tears on a weirwood some greenseer just wraged it)

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the tw. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn`t be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing sowrds, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the booy across his Thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splahs and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It"s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" (if we wouldn`t have already known that the whole Lyanna was raped story isn`t true, this would`ve been a good clue that Lyanna wasn`t easy to be raped, growing up swordsplaying and being appearingly quite good at it)

but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pook, knelt before the tree and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of ther toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark - eyed yough, pale and fierce, sliced three branches of the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanish in their turn. ANd now the lords Bran glimplsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to time.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white - haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickel in her hand. "No", said Bran, "no, don`t", but htey could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. ANd through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man`s feet drummed against the earth... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood. (Has to be Bran the Builder if he has that much connection to the actual Brandon Stark.)

[Corvinus85]

Actually another good point to indicate that the girl and the boy were Lyanna and Benjen is that she talks about Old Nan hearing them and telling their father. This indicates that this was a time when Old Nan was younger and able to move about the castle.

[Coals]

If the pregnant lady was after dunk and egg visited... Loony theory but Egg as the targaryen granddaddy of the stark clan???

[Swordswench]

In a way, or maybe quite literally, the weirwood sap may be a mixture of tree sap and actual blood -- blood from those sacrificed at the trees. Not that it means much at this point, I suppose, but it could be a necessary ingredient for being able to look back into the past or skinchange into a weirwood. That could be what the CoTF are talking about with regards to imbuing the weirwoods with lives and memories.